- The University of North Carolina System is a half century old.

It was birthed with a lot of new ideas, what has worked, what work needs to be done?

The answers from the system President Peter Hans.

- [Announcer] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[bright classical music] - President Hans, thanks for your time.

Thanks for talking with us.

- Thank you, my friend.

Good to be with you, David.

- You know, there are a lot of people across this great state who have heard about the University of North Carolina System, but they really don't understand what that means.

Can you give us a basic primer on this system that is now a half century old?

- Absolutely, well, of course, the history of the University of North Carolina, which is still our legal entity, dates all the way back to 1789 when the campus at Chapel Hill was chartered and took in students in 1795.

It became a three campus system in 1930 with what was then State College and the Women's College at Greensboro in Chapel Hill.

And that was under Dr. Frank Porter Graham.

But in 1972, the system itself was consolidated into what we have today, which is the 16 University of North Carolina System.

I'm its president.

We have a board of governors elected by the legislature.

They have one employee, that's me.

The chancellors of our universities, and the leaders of our affiliates from UNC Health, the State Education Assistance Authority, the Arboretum, even a statewide public television network.

- Exactly.

- Report back to me.

We've got 75,000 employees in the system.

Obviously, the 16 universities, but a world class residential math and science high school, 19 hospital healthcare system.

It's truly remarkable in its depth and breadth and the impact it has on the state.

- There's been so much accomplished in this state by this system in the 50 years of its existence.

Very rich history.

Is there anything or things in particular that stand out for you?

- Well, we have been celebrating the 50th anniversary this year, and I've done a little research.

Back in 1972, we had about 80,000 students enrolled.

Today, it's a quarter million.

The budget was less than $1 billion.

As I mentioned, we're now a $20 billion a year organization.

North Carolina's economy was built on tobacco and textiles and furniture.

It's been completely transformed now to information technology and finance and aerospace.

The university has helped the state grow and prosper for the past 50 years.

And imagine what the next half century holds.

- You know, there have been other presidents before you.

We're sitting in the room here in this library, as I would call it, of the president's residence.

Bill Friday, between us here, who had the vision for this system.

What do you think he would say if he were here today and could see how this system has grown?

- David, I'm very fortunate because I have known each of my predecessors from President Friday, who of course was president in the system from 1957 to 1987, 30 years.

I'll never come close to matching, that I can assure you, but followed by President C.D.

Spangler, Molly Boron, Erskine Bowls, Tom Ross, Margaret Spellings and now myself.

And I take that responsibility very seriously because I walk in the footsteps of giants like President Friday.

And I try to learn from their example, inspired by their vision.

It's interesting, we talk about President Friday and the consolidation of the system.

That's something he was not in favor of initially.

And it was the subject of great political tension and fighting.

It's one reminder among many from his life story that politics and higher education clashing, that's nothing necessarily new.

It's not comfortable.

I don't enjoy it.

I don't think he did.

But I've tried to learn from his life and learn from his example.

- Well, as you have learned from those who went before you, you've watched the role you are in today grow and expand, maybe narrow at times.

How will you define the role of the president today?

- So the role of the president really is to make sure the university holds true to its mission.

Our mission is to discover and create and share and apply knowledge through teaching, research and public service.

And I view my role largely as supporting the chancellors and the leaders of our university affiliates because they're doing remarkable work on behalf of the people of North Carolina.

I am their advocate.

Yes, the boss, the one ultimately accountable and responsible, but I view myself as helping to elevate their work because they're on the front lines.

When people ask me about the system, it's more important for people to be familiar with the work of the universities themselves.

And often it's the chancellors who are out front as they should be.

Because the university system is itself in some ways the wiring in the house, the plumbing in the house.

We're there to support the universities and our affiliates.

Less about me, more about them.

- And you're looking at so much diversity within the system.

When you look at some of the smaller universities, and then you have the larger, what I would call the anchor universities of UNC, NC State and others.

I don't wanna leave out some.

It's like an awards banquet, and you forgot to name someone.

But you know, I've spoken with many of the chancellors and been on many of these campuses now.

It varies greatly of the student population and the needs of the region in what those schools are doing.

That's a lot to balance.

- It is.

I think it speaks, again, to the depth and the breadth of the university system that you have such diversity within its institutions.

Yes, two world class research universities in Chapel Hill and NC State.

We have arguably one of the very finest arts conservatories in the country.

Really one of very few public arts conservatories in the School of the Arts in Winston-Salem, small liberal arts school in Asheville.

Five historically Black colleges and universities, more than any other in the country.

And five public HBCUs that are ranked highly.

I believe A&T, which is of course the the largest HBCU in terms of student population, will one day be a research institution as well, research one-level institution like Chapel Hill and State, and be the first HBCU in the country to do so.

A Native American serving institution in Pembroke, regional institutions in east Carolina and western Carolina, such unique institutions that do reflect their regions and their communities, which is such a benefit, if they're going to meet the needs of the people in those areas and offer all North Carolinians a chance for a great higher education.

- You talk about meeting the needs in a given community, a given region.

Look at what's happening at Elizabeth City State right now in one of the leading programs in the country of training pilots.

- Yes.

- At a time when there's such a severe shortage.

- There is.

- In that industry.

And it's happening within this system.

- It's become a signature program for Elizabeth City State and is attracting attention from up and down the east coast.

Actually, we raise the number of out-of-state students that might enroll at Elizabeth City partially for that reason.

- It's amazing when you look around the state and see what all is happening.

So we know what is happening at many of the universities across the state.

How would this state have been different, do you think, particularly in light of all the advancements in medicine, technology, agriculture, name it?

How would the state have been different without the UNC System?

- David, we would be a much different state.

I think the university's role in economic development indirectly has been critical.

The large job announcements that we have seen in recent years are almost all tied to the talent pool that is generated from our universities and our private partners, as well.

And, of course, the community colleges, which are near and dear to my heart, make up the other leg of the workforce development triangle there.

But North Carolina has experienced this unprecedented growth and prosperity in no small part due to what present Friday used to call the economic engine that is the UNC System.

- Yeah, there's no question that this economic engine is the system that education is the key.

You mentioned earlier, when this system was birthed in 1972, there were 80,000 students.

We're looking now to quarter of a million.

- That's right.

- And yet we are also in a period of time where some people, some are saying, "I'm not so sure about higher education.

I'm not so sure about the investment is going to cost my son or daughter or myself to make a move in higher education."

How do you push back against that thinking and say, "Hold on, there's a real cost additive that will happen or can happen in your life?"

- Well, I understand the criticism of higher education, and some part, I actually share it.

I think the costs are too high.

But North Carolina has always prided itself on an accessible, affordable, high-quality, higher education.

The UNC System tuition is some of the very lowest in the country.

Our student debt levels have actually declined over the past 5 years, the past 10 years, actually declined, very much unlike the national averages.

And let me say this.

I think there are many paths to success in life.

They don't necessarily have to come through a four-year degree.

Again, as a community college advocate, I can evangelize on their behalf all day long.

But experience has shown that the opportunity for that accessible, affordable, high-quality, four-year degree, and potentially beyond, it offers the opportunity for so much more, for people to provide for themselves, to provide for their families, to become better citizens, to contribute to the culture.

The mission of the university supports North Carolina's economy and democracy and culture in so many ways.

And so I can make that case with great pride for almost anyone's particular circumstances.

- So if a young person happens to be watching, and they are thinking, "I really want to do this, but I just don't know if I can afford to take on debt," What do you say to 'em?

- Well, I think financial literacy, as you are studying your college options, both for students and parents is very important.

When you weigh the public options, and, again, the diversity of choices we have within the UNC System versus private providers, that's an important distinction, because, again, our tuition is among the very lowest in the country.

This is our moral obligation, and it's actually our constitutional commitment.

I don't believe that it's absolutely necessary to make that decision at 18.

We place too much pressure on young people to know exactly what they want to do with their lives, which is one reason I'm also a big advocate of lifelong learning and trying to promote the idea that our system can do much more to help adult learners, that just because you didn't enroll or graduate from a university in that traditional college age going demographic of 18 to 24, that that forecloses your options forever.

In fact, the need for a college education or to brush up your skills or add to your knowledge at 30, 40, even 50 years old is absolutely there.

And the university system has to do a better job in that regard.

- You know, I was in my 50s when I started to finally work on a masters.

- Good for you.

- It was actually a second masters.

- Good for you.

But went back to school, and one of the things that did for me was to learn from young people that I had forgotten about the energy and the fertility of the minds of young people.

And it challenged my thinking.

And so now I'm an advocate not only for lifelong learning, but to really encourage people, open your mind up a little bit and listen.

And sometimes, I don't know if the universities understand that about the older folks who come back.

- Well, so it's an interesting question because older folks like us, David, may or may not be comfortable on campus.

They may be juggling a job, family, all of life's responsibilities.

And so the opportunity to engage in high-end, more personalized online learning probably meets the flexibility of their lives.

But we've been so focused on 18 to 24 year olds that we just haven't put the investment on meeting the needs of adult learners and military-affiliated students.

So this is a major focus of mine actually.

The number of 18 to 24 year olds is actually plateauing and gonna turn down.

It's demographics, it's the birth rate.

But we've got a million North Carolinians, adult North Carolinians who have some college but but no degree.

If 60,000 North Carolinians taking four-year degree programs from out-of-state providers, some good actors in that space, some bad actors in that space, UNC System and our universities can do more to support those North Carolinians.

And I think it's the right thing to do.

It's the smart thing for us to do.

- You know, you, you're speaking of veterans, just a few months ago, introduced a new initiative for the state regarding veterans.

Talk about that a little bit.

- Well, so we have tens of thousands of people leaving the service to our country every year based in North Carolina.

And, again, some of these for-profit providers target those people.

They've got very clever marketing.

They sign 'em up for big loans.

You talked earlier about student debt.

This is where I say there are some bad actors in that space.

The university system can do more to meet their needs, actually provide credit for prior learning.

I mean, you think about all the experiences and knowledge you would glean from a time in the military that could be applied towards a college degree, make it a streamlined path.

Do it in cooperation with our community colleges.

I think we could provide them a very affordable path to a four-year degree and take advantage of their service to our country and all that they've learned and take it to the next level.

- And they bring that into a classroom.

They bring that with, not only their fellow students, no matter what their age, they bring it to the professors.

- Well, that's right, everybody benefits.

- And they also bring it to just the people working on the campus.

- [Peter] That's right.

- It could be their grounds crew.

It could be whomever it may be.

Those who clean the buildings learn from those students, and particularly older students.

- A valuable part of our campus community are military-affiliated students.

- Okay, you have quite a history in North Carolina.

This is your home state.

- I'm a North Carolina boy.

- You're a graduate of the University of North Carolina.

You had the community college system at one time.

You know this state so well.

Talk about why you think you are uniquely qualified to do this work.

- Well, it sounds like you're interviewing me for the job here, David.

- Well, sort of.

[both laugh] - I'm teasing you, my friend.

Look, I have a passion about this place and our people and our mission, the many people who share that.

But I think it's essential in this role really to have that deep pride about North Carolina and why this is a special place, and our 10.5 million people are so unique, and why our mission is geared towards serving them.

Yes, I grew up down east and in the mountains and have spent my entire life other than a few professional years up in Washington and grad school in Boston, right here.

'Cause there's no place in the world I'd rather be.

And I've traveled across the world to 70 countries.

North Carolina's my home.

I born here, and I'll die here.

I love this place, and what an honor and a privilege it is to contribute just a small part back through the university.

- Do you remember the day you were informed you were accepted as a student at the University of North Carolina?

- I do, I do.

- [David] What was that like?

- Well.

Little bit of a surprise actually.

I was a bit of an underachiever in high school, [David laughs] at least according to my parents and teachers.

And what a remarkable opportunity that was.

Now, my parents were older, and they grew up poor.

They worked their way into the middle class.

They didn't have the opportunity to attend college but made it possible for me to do so.

And so I'm a first generation college graduate.

My parents are no longer with us, but I think they would be amazed and I hope very proud of what I've done with that education.

- Well, as you take what you've done with it, and as you are in this role, and you look out to the future, what are you most excited about for the system?

- David, I probably am most inspired when I have a chance to be on campus and visit with the students because essentially the system functions as a central office.

And, yes, we're trying to leverage all the strengths of a system and coordinate things, occasionally regulate them, necessary to do so according to our responsibilities, advocate for them.

But there are really no students around.

I mean, we have student groups that come to visit, and we have some young people who work at the office after they graduate.

But when I get a chance to go out onto our university campuses, and I see how remarkable these young people are, and I hear these stories about younger generation that don't match up with what I see on campus.

These young people are incredibly smart and creative and caring.

And I actually think the future is pretty bright.

I know the news is bad right now.

I always encourage young people to limit their news consumption and their social media diet.

But these young people, I see so much possibility in their eyes.

- What have we not talked about that you want to make sure people watching across the state are able to see?

- Well, one thing that comes to mind, David, is, at PBS NC, the opportunity to help so many new residents to North Carolina learn more about this state and why it's special.

And, yes, I've been here 50 years, but they may have been here 50 days.

There's still a North Carolinian.

And for them to develop that sense of pride in the people and the place and hopefully the mission of the university system as well, nobody can do that quite like PBS NC.

And I'm grateful to you for taking on the leadership role there because I think the chance to reach a state that's growing as much as it is is a valuable, valuable and important role.

- Well, thank you for that.

For people who are new that may be watching and don't really understand all that this television network offers, you know, I like to point out every opportunity that I can, that we have a dual mission, that's to keep people safe, whether it's terrible weather, here we are in hurricane season, and to educate, and there may be 50 subsets under that subject of education, but we do it for free.

- That's right.

- Statewide, to people who have no other access to this information.

- That's right.

- Except through PBS North Carolina.

And no one else in the state wants to do it.

No one else in the state can do it.

And it's a mission that we have to make sure people have opportunity to knowledge no matter what their age.

Everyone has a PBS story, don't they?

Everyone.

- Well, they do.

I think it was probably instrumental to my education growing up.

- [David] Did you watch "Sesame Street"?

- Oh my gosh, yeah.

- "Electric Company"?

- No, we watched it every day in school, and so much of that stayed with me and penetrated my brain, and it was entertaining at the same time.

What a role PBS NC plays for young people, particularly during the pandemic, how important that was.

So yeah, that mission of informing and entertaining, it's so complimentary of the university's mission, that I'm thrilled you and PBS NC are an integral part of the system itself.

- President Peter Hans of the University of North Carolina System, happy 50th anniversary to the system.

May there be another great 50, and we appreciate your leadership and your time.

- Thank you, David.

[bright classical music] - [Announcer] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.