Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> Well, good evening and welcome to Making It Grow .

We are so happy that you can join us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty, and I'm a Clemson Horticulture Agent.

And I get to come over here with my co-host Terasa Lott, who is also a Clemson Extension person.

And Terasa, I always say, and I just say this every, every single Tuesday.

"It's continuing education."

> It surely is, Amanda.

I don't think there has been a single episode where I have left and felt like I didn't hear new information.

Amanda> And that's thanks to our wonderful panelists who come on.

And, Stephanie Turner from up there in Greenwood.

Oh, what a lovely city you live in.

Y'all have so many things going on up there.

Stephanie> Yes, we do.

Lots of cultural things and historical, aspects.

Yeah.

Amanda> Yeah.

And, how are the topiaries this year?

> Oh, every year they outdo themselves on the topiaries.

Master Gardeners have been helping quite a bit this year.

And so it's been great fun.

Amanda> And you, your Master Gardeners encompass a couple of counties, I think.

What do you call them, the Lakelands?

Stephanie> The Lakelands Master Gardeners, yes.

So, Greenwood and surrounding counties, all are welcome, Master Gardeners from there.

Amanda> Yeah, well, I know they have a good time with you and learning so much with you as well.

Stephanie> I have a great time with them too.

Amanda> I know you do.

Carmen Ketron is the Hort.

Agent down in Darlington and Florence.

And, I just think that, that's a fascinating part of the world because Darlington is still not terribly grown up.

But Florence is kind of grown up now.

Carmen> Yeah.

It's a, happening place, we love it.

Yeah.

Amanda> But do y'all have some nice parks and places over there for people to go to Carmen?

Carmen> Yes, we have some lovely parks, some wonderful green spaces.

We have the Rail Trail.

It's wonderful.

Amanda> What's that?

Carmen> That's an old, railroad trail that they've made into a walking path.

And so it's just wonderful.

Amanda> Okay, great.

That's fun, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

Railroad, I used to like to ride the train because if you, you go through the funky kind of parts of town, you feel like you really see people.

And it used to- One time, when we were going to Louisiana, we saw some people get on the, train with grocery bags and a chicken.

Carmen> Yeah.

(laughter) I mean, this was a long time ago, but it was like, you know, you know, just going from the next town to the- It was very interesting.

Rail- cars, trains are fun.

All righty.

And Tom Nelson, one of the famous Lakelands Master Gardeners.

And, you just love, when you took that course I think you got a new lease on life.

Tom> I did, absolutely.

It's been a wonderful experience and particularly enjoy working with, Stephanie.

She makes our work so much more pleasurable.

Amanda> Yeah, and y'all do a lot for the community.

Tom> We do.

There are a number of us who have taken charge of some of the city gardens and work those rather regularly.

So, yeah, it's nice to be able to give back to the city, which is provided all of us with such a good life.

Amanda> Yeah.

And it's a lovely city.

Tom> Yes it is.

Amanda> It really is.

Okay.

Well, we're going to have some fun things for you to, segments for you to watch.

The "Deep South Native Plants for the Home Garden," a book.

And we interviewed the author, Jane Jabbour.

And then, Ashley Hall down there in Charleston.

They had a "2024 Plant With a Purpose Earth Day."

We had more fun there.

Those kids were just dynamite.

Honestly, I think you'll enjoy both of those a lot.

And Terasa, I know something else people are going to enjoy a lot.

And that is the "Gardens of the Week," Fa la la.

Terasa> "Gardens of the Week" has become an integral part of each episode of Making It Grow.

And it's your time to shine.

It's like a virtual field trip when we get to see what you're doing in your yard, your gardens.

Perhaps it's even indoors with house plants.

Or maybe a beautiful place in the state of South Carolina.

So let's see what we have to look at this week.

We begin with Mike Branham, who shared a pink flowered azalea that is absolutely bursting with flowers in Hopkins.

From Rebecca Phillips, a toad habitat that she created in Greenville.

Or, if you'd like a play on words, we could call it a "toad abode" (laughter) Amanda> That's clever.

Terasa> From George Jenkins, a magnificent specimen of Carolina jessamine from Gastonia.

So that's to our north in North Carolina.

From Kevin Rice, one of the native violet species, the genus Viola.

And that's from Beaufort.

And we wrap up with a photograph, from Seven Springs Farm of the dark morph of our state butterfly, the eastern tiger swallowtail.

Featured here on an apple flower in Six Mile.

And if you look really carefully, you can see that faint tiger striping pattern.

And, fun fact all of the dark morphs of that butterfly are female due to the way genetics work in butterflies.

Amanda> How amazing.

Terasa> You just never know when that might come in handy.

Amanda> And there are not many places in South Carolina that people grow apples.

And at the grocery stores right now, I see that they're just selling all these apple trees.

But I don't say anything because, they'll leaf out and something will happen and they may get some blooms to them.

But there are places up near Six Mile and farther north, I think, where we have some nice apple places.

<Mhm> Always nice to shop with South Carolina people, but, great apples right across the border as well.

Terasa> That's true.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, thank you so very much.

Well, I bet someone now that the weather is nicer and people are getting out, would like some help.

Terasa> Yes, I think people are chomping at the bit.

There's something about the rebirth of the landscape and the weather changing that gives people the itch to get outside.

We have a question coming in from Greenwood.

Mr. Odell would like to know, "How do I germinate coral bean?"

Amanda> Ah, that's just one of my favorite things to see.

And I usually see it down towards the coast sometimes just like on the ditch banks of places.

But, what a gorgeous colored bean it is.

But, also hard as a rock.

Stephanie> Yes.

(laughter) So, Mr. Odell brought this into our office in Greenwood.

At first he came by and asked me about it, with a common name, and I hadn't heard it being called, "cardinal plant."

So we, I asked for a sample, so he came back- Amanda> Well, I'm so glad, because that's a great visual.

Stephanie> Right.

So then we identified it, as Coral bean.

And yeah, these little, these little beans are so striking, but they also, are tough, very tough skin.

And so, we do for germination of tough seeds.

We need to scarify, so- Amanda> And tell people what that means.

Stephanie> So we're scraping that seed coat, puncturing it, scraping it, wearing it down a little bit as nature would.

Right?

Or maybe it would have, been broken down in the gut of a bird or, you know, outside with sand and wind and so forth.

We're going to kind of force nature's hand on that, and we're going to scrape that seed coat Amanda> It's such a little thing.

Tell me how you would go about doing that, because it'd be hard to hold on to it.

Stephanie> Yeah, the other thing about these little seeds is that they are toxic.

So they have compounds in it that can be used for like, rat poisoning and stuff like that.

You don't want animals, your pets or your children or anything eating them.

And, you know, they're kind of eye catching.

So, you know, that is something to keep in mind.

Amanda> You probably could chomp it, maybe break, with your teeth if you- Stephanie> Ooo yeah, no, I would not do that.

Amanda> No, I just meant that, I mean, you don't know what children might do is what I'm saying.

Stephanie> Right, right.

So, but for Mr. Odell's purposes, he wanted to grow some of these plants.

And so, what I suggested to scarify is to, use a file or some sandpaper.

Amanda> Okay.

Stephanie> And so you're just going to scrape away the outer layer, the seed coat and wear some gloves because of the compounds in the seed.

Yeah.

And then soak overnight.

Amanda> Okay.

Stephanie> Soak the seeds overnight, then sow them to germinate them.

Keep them warm, somewhere warm so that they can start their growth process.

But yeah, you got to get through that seed coat because otherwise it'll take months and months- Amanda> Or years and years.

Stephanie> Yeah, mhm.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, I'm so glad he brought it into you.

And, common names are interesting, but we're glad to know the, the real name too.

Thank you so very much.

Alright, Mrs. Terasa?

Terasa> We're going to move along to Mullins, where Charles had a question and said, "Something is creating holes in the trunk of my 'Pe-con' tree or 'Pecan' tree.

What could be doing this?"

Amanda> Okay, well this is very, very common, and I think it's fun to see.

So let's make it fun for everybody to know about.

Carmen> Well, with the picture that they sent in, it's, the number one indication is the grid pattern.

<Yeah> A lot of the times, you'll see, equidistant holes, very shallow holes going vertically or horizontally, and a lot of the times when you see that grid pattern, you know exactly that, it is a yellow-bellied sapsucker.

Amanda> It's like they had a little, ruler with them.

(laughter) Carmen> Exactly.

It's so precise.

The math is kind of fun with that.

But one of the big things is that- Amanda> So why do they do that?

Carmen> They're going for the sap.

That's, that's one of the big indications is they're going very shallow.

<Yes> And... and it's normally very papery bark.

Maple.

Birch.

But we love, they love the apples.

They love the apple tree crab apples, pecan trees, "pe-con" trees.

And a lot of times they're going for the sap or insects that are also attracted to the sap.

So they're going there they're hanging out.

They're coming back year after year.

So you will often see a whole grid pattern down.

It's not really a problem though.

Amanda> And then other things come, I think, and enjoy the sap as well.

Don't, they?

Carmen> Yeah.

It's a whole buffet.

Yeah.

We love it.

Amanda> Yeah.

Okay.

Carmen> But it's not doing a whole lot of damage.

It's usually on older trees- Amanda> They can put up with it.

Carmen> Yeah.

Amanda> And they're not going deep.

Carmen> No, they're not going deep.

If you start to see, sometimes the tree is stressed for other reasons.

And so it's an easier target, but, you know- Amanda> They're fun.

Carmen> Let them have fun.

And they're really pretty to see if you can catch them- Amanda> Okay.

Carmen> Doing it.

Amanda> Well, I thank you so very, very much.

Alright Terasa?

Terasa> I believe our friend Tom has brought a show and tell.

Maybe a fern that he would like to tell us about.

Amanda> Alright, Tom, well bring it up and let's talk about it.

It's kind of a peculiar looking fern isn't it?

Tom> It is a peculiar looking fern.

This is an Arborvitae fern.

And... it is interesting because of the fact the leaves, if you can get a close up of the leaves- Amanda> If you hold- Tom> it looks like a lot like... an Arborvitae tree.

Amanda> It does.

Tom> With the, scale-like leaves.

<Netting> But this is, it's not a true fern.

It, it will reproduce not by seeds and flowers, but by male and female spores.

It prefers a shady situation.

Although I actually have a friend in Greenwood.

When I was talking, or actually, she is the one who made me aware of this... particular plant.

She has one who that, that grows in, more full sun, so- Amanda> Who knows?

Tom> Although they prefer a shady, moist situation, plants are adaptable and so her's grows quite readily in full sun.

Amanda> How large a clump can it make, would you suppose?

Tom> It will make a clump about, 18 inches wide.

Amanda> Oh, that will be handsome.

Tom> A thick clump.

This one is still trying to come out of hibernation, I think.

Amanda> Oh.

And it can overwinter.

Tom> Yes it can.

Amanda> It's very handsome.

And, you said perhaps it would be a good thing to add to a terrarium.

A small one.

Tom> You can add that to a terrarium.

A small terrarium.

As long as you can keep it relatively shaded and well watered and, in a humid environment.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, sometimes we have a lot of humidity in the outdoors of South Carolina.

Tom> We do, we do indeed.

That's why they thrive.

Amanda> Well, that's great fun.

What you going to do with yours?

Have you decided?

Tom> Actually, I'm going to put mine in a pot on the back porch.

It's fairly shaded.

And where I can get to water it- Amanda> Yeah.

Tom> More frequently.

Amanda> Yeah, because I stuck my finger down there, and you said you watered it the other day- Tom> Yeah.

It's a little, a little thirsty, I think.

Amanda> Yeah.

(laughter) You think it's pot now?

Tom> Probably so.

Given the fact that it's been in the pot for probably since last season.

Amanda> Yeah.

Okay.

Well, I hope it thrives for you.

Tom> Thank you so much.

Okay.

Amanda> Jane Jabbour came on with a fun, fun, fun book that she's written.

I hope that you will, look for it and perhaps get a chance to read it.

"Deep South Native Plants for the Home Garden."

I'm happy to be talking to Jane Jabbour today.

And she has a book she's written.

How exciting.

A book writer, yeah.

Jane> My first.

Amanda> Yeah.

And, this is "Deep South Native Plants for the Home Garden."

And I think this is great fun because you didn't just say, "duh duh duh" this chapter's about so-and-so and "da da da da" about this plant.

You created this whole world of people on a bus trip.

Jane> Yes, that was sort of the frame for this book.

And my thinking was that it would give a little lightness and levity to a subject that the scientists have already covered the subject pretty well.

And they've written these wonderful big books that deal with thousands of species.

I wanted something that would be more like a, pocket handbook to a small selection.

And so I created this story of a bus going on a trip through the south.

Amanda> The bus driver's Mr. Zoombyski, Zoombyski.

Jane> Yeah.

He "zooms by."

and, and I'm the, the tour guide.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

Jane> So that was the, the, the inspiration for- Amanda> And you've got Mrs. Wonderingall Mr. Grousington and Mr. Lumpski.

So the men seem to be somewhat grumpy on this trip, which is kind of funny, but anyway.

It's great fun and they do go through the Deep South.

And so, you know, we'll go to one state and talk about two things there.

Although, as you point out, these plants grow all over, they're not just distributed in these states that we talk about.

<Correct> Amanda> It just makes it more fun.

It's an easy, fun read.

Jane> It's an easy read.

Amanda> But, what's you know, I think... one of the things that we all want to do now is create habitat and it all flows together, I believe.

Jane> Yes.

My thinking, actually my thinking for the, the choice of, of selections here was to introduce people who might be new to the South.

And who might not know anything.

And frequently our local nurseries would say "people will come in and they're from New Jersey or they're from Detroit, and they come in and say, 'I'm ready to go with gardening in the South, where do I begin?'"

And what a good idea to point them towards native plants, you know?

Amanda> So critical for the continuation of life.

Jane> Exactly.

Amanda> We could talk about a few of them that you just, that are outstanding to plant and, and you could, you could extrapolate on them.

How about that?

Jane> Okay.

Amanda> Well, cone flowers.

Jane> Cone flowers are... first of all, we'll say they're pretty.

Amanda> That helps.

Jane> People, people like color in their gardens.

Sad to say, many people want a flower that'll give them color 12 months of the year.

And of course, we know that's not the case.

You need to kind of put in a variety to get a succession of color.

But the cone flowers do come in a number of colors.

And they add quite a bit of pop, but they're really significant sources of pollen and nectar for our pollinators.

And as you know, that's become a critical theme these days.

Amanda> It has.

Jane> We've got to have the pollinators because it's no longer a single flower in isolation.

It's a flower as part of this web of life.

Amanda> And then I think it was Mr. Grousington who said, you were talking about Joe-Pye weed.

He said, "I don't want any weeds in my yard."

So, Joe-Pye weed is just a wonderful plant.

Let's talk- Jane> It is such a great plant with such an unfortunate name.

But yes, it's got a lot going for it.

It's a fabulous pollinator.

You can go out, I've been out on, in my backyard to look at the Joe-Pye weed when it's in full bloom, and you will see if you hold still and watch you will see maybe six different species of pollinators.

So it's a winner for the pollinators.

But it has other virtues as well.

Amanda> Well, it's easy to grow.

You talked about seeing some on a railroad track.

<Yeah> I mean, you know, crazy just, it's a weed.

<Easy> I mean, it's nice to have something that's easy to grow.

Jane> It prefers neglect.

(laughter) It really wants to be neglected.

The other thing, and, I mentioned this to you earlier, that it has hollow stem.

Amanda> Yes.

And so don't be to tidy.

What's the importance of hollow stems?

Jane> Right.

We tend to want to go out there and chop down when things are- Amanda> Over.

Jane> Over and the season's changing.

Amanda> Tidying up for winter.

Jane> Yeah.

Okay.

Now what we've learned is there's a lot going on with those hollow tubes that are left over.

That's where overwintering is taking place for our native bee population.

Amanda> Isn't that wonderful?

Jane> It's great.

So here was my experience.

I went to a lecture on bees.

Amanda> Okay.

Jane> And there were native bees that were overwintering in these hollow stems.

And the, the PowerPoint showed me what was going on inside.

And there's one after another, after another, after another chamber.

And I thought, that sounds interesting.

I'm going to go out in my backyard- Amanda> Oh and look!

Jane> And I'm going to be a little home scientist, and I'm going to cut some and look and see what's going on.

And by goodness, you just couldn't believe it.

Clear as a bell, there were those chambers.

<Aww> And that was because I had left some Joe-Pye stalks.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

People don't think of, you know, ferns as being important in the ecological balance.

But, we do have a good many native ferns that do provide overwintering sites and things like that.

And the Christmas fern is the one I like so much, because if you look at one of the individual fronds, it looks like Santa Claus is in the back and the sleigh is out front.

But, but anyway.

And it just grows everywhere so easily.

Jane> It's another winner and good for putting in a shady area.

A lot of people are concerned about, what do I plant under my trees?

You know what will grow in the shade?

Ferns are a good bet.

They do well and they're very important, as you mentioned, as a source of inter- overwintering for the insects.

Amanda> Yeah.

Everybody loves bearded iris.

But we've got a couple of native iris and one is very small and very dear.

Jane> Yes, I love that plant.

It's dwarf crested iris, and Iris cristata is its Latin name.

And it grows, I'm going to say, even though the books say, put it in a damp environment and give it a lot of water.

I've seen it growing well in shade and it comes back year after year.

We've had some in, underneath a pine tree for many years.

Amanda> So you could mix that in with some of the ferns if you wanted to lightly plant under trees.

Jane> You could.

You want to leave a lot of the ground there for the caterpillars to fall- Jane> You could.

<You could> There is a couple of other low growing, there's Indian pinks, <Yes> Which is, has a bloom.

People want that color.

Amanda> So red.

Jane> Whoo, bright red.

And it doesn't get too tall maybe like that.

And that's a nice one.

And it does very well in shade.

Amanda> Gosh, isn't that fun?

The red bee balm has a funny story associated with it.

It was used to make tea.

Jane> Yes.

You know, everyone knows about the Boston Tea Party Amanda> Oh yeah, throwing all the tea overboard.

Jane> Throw the tea overboard because it came from the Brits.

The big bad Brits.

Amanda> You need something to drink in the morning.

Jane> Got to have your something in the morning.

And, the Native Americans taught the Colonists about this plant, bee balm as a good tea substitute.

And that's what they used.

It was a way of sort of registering your protest against the British is to drink this bee balm tea.

Amanda> I haven't tried it.

Maybe a little, spoonful of sugar may... (laughter) Jane> Yeah, I think that's probably a good idea.

Amanda> Yeah.

I'm not familiar with the smooth oxeye, but you said it's one I need to become familiar with.

Jane> Yes, smooth oxeye has a bunch of other common names, so if you wanted to look it up, you might look under smooth oxeye or, sun-facing sunflower.

But it's a long bloom.

It's great virtue is that it starts and it keeps going.

Amanda> You said maybe ten weeks.

Which is stunning.

Jane> Yeah, I think eight to ten weeks.

That's my estimate.

I wasn't out there with a calendar.

It just went on and on.

Amanda> And this one you can cut I like to bring flowers in the house.

And you said this one's a great cut flower.

Jane> Yeah, great for cut flowers.

Great for the birds, the pollinators.

And it's really colorful.

And it lasts!

Amanda> There you go.

Isn't that fun?

Jane> Yes.

Amanda> And then, a woody plant that I was...

I mean, I've known it, I've seen it in the wild.

The viburnum, the Walter's viburnum.

And the... the straight species is kind of rangy and blah, blah, blah.

But you said there's one that you've been growing, a cultivar.

And tell me about that one.

Jane> We're talking about a plant called Walter's viburnum.

Amanda> Thank you.

Jane> And the species is called Mrs. Schiller's Delight.

<Okay> The great virtues of this plant are that it is... evergreen.

Everybody wants an evergreen.

It has blooms.

So it's better than boxwood in a way, because it's covered with white blooms.

Amanda> Which is going to attract the pollinators.

Jane> Exactly.

And it is followed by lovely berries.

<Oh> Hello, birds!

So- Amanda> Which somebody is going to enjoy.

Yeah.

Jane> So I think, oh did I mention it smells good.

The flowers smell wonderful.

Amanda> Gosh.

Jane> I mean here's a plant you can't...

It's just fabulous.

Amanda> And boxwoods have so, so many problems and so many people are losing all theirs.

So I just say, and this one you said doesn't get too big.

Jane> Not too big.

You can trim it up like a boxwood.

Amanda> Yeah, if you want to.

Jane> Yeah.

Or let it go.

Amanda> Or let it go.

Yeah.

And then, the black-eyed Susan.

Who doesn't like black-eyed Susans?

Jane> Right?

It's a great favorite.

Good for cut flowers, but also one where it's fine to leave it behind and let the birds have some of those seeds.

Amanda> And again, hollow stems.

Jane> Right.

Hollow stems.

Amanda> The monarchs are, talk about under... distress and distressing situation.

And they feed on, their larval, larvae only feed on milkweed.

Jane> Correct.

Amanda> But I think that some milkweeds are more attractive to their larvae than other.

What's been your experience?

Jane> Well, you know, that's probably true.

All I know is that most of the official advice is to plant something called Asclepias tuberosa.

It has a sort of a bright orange bloom.

The blooms are really pretty.

But I put it in and it came back for one year.

Maybe a little bit less the second year, and then it disappeared.

So, it has not done very well for me.

Other people, may have success, but you said you did pretty well with... Amanda> Swamp milkweed.

Jane> With the swamp milkweed.

Amanda> My friend Laura Lee Rose grows, and sent me some starts of... And it just was tiny at first.

But then last year it got huge and the year before, and it just covered.

I mean, I was worried about the poor little caterpillars because they ate it all up.

And, but it makes seeds and I've got more coming up.

So I just think it's a great one.

And again, I leave the stems up, you know, I don't cut it all the way back because somebody is going to make, make use of those.

Jane> Right.

Amanda> But it's, it's pretty good.

Jane> You know, you mentioned something that reminds me, sometimes caterpillars will demolish the plant.

And you say, "my goodness!"

<I know> Wait two or three days and watch carefully and you may well see new growth popping back up.

Amanda> The passion vine.

Jane> The passion vine does that Amanda> They just eat... Jane> It comes right on back- Amanda> -With vigor.

Jane> And you're like well, that worked pretty well.

Nature knows what it's doing.

Amanda> You and your partner, Lynn Meffert, got so excited after reading Doug Tallamy that y'all decided to start a native plant nursery.

Maybe the first one in the state.

Jane> Yes.

I don't know about the state, but we were certainly early in Charleston.

There was a Native Plant Society, small, a sort of beginning group, which we joined.

And then we were so enthusiastic about natives, we decided to propagate them and use our own backyard as a place to, you know, offer plants for people who are interested.

So, our friends in the Native Plant Society came and the word spread, and before we knew it, native plants were getting to be a thing.

Amanda> I know, people were just walking, knocking on your door constantly, just making their way to the backyard.

<Right> And you said that one of the things is when people come, they get so excited because this is so pretty, and this is so pretty, and this is so pretty, but if you have a small yard and you can't have masses, it's so important, group things.

Because that helps the animals find them.

If there's just a single thing- Jane> Right.

One of the things I tried to point out in the book is that the research, the science really supports the idea of diversity.

So you want several species if possible, but also you have to balance that with the fact that one plant is not going to have much of an impact.

So a grouping of plants and another plant in groups, those kinds of arrangements are what really work the best.

Amanda> Yeah, they do.

And, so I wanted to end with something that you wrote, and I will let you read it.

Jane> "Finally, I have approached the subject with a smile in hopes that you share my vision that each of us, in doing good can feel gratified and empowered.

Knowing that our personal landscapes can be tools for expressing our deep affection for the Earth.

We can make conscious, positive garden choices.

We can each be individual strands in the amazing woven tapestry of all life."

♪ Amanda> I'm so happy that Jane came up and visited with us, and I very much enjoyed her book.

So, hats, hats, hats.

This white flower that's up there.

The great big one, smells kind of bad.

And, I mean, I made Tom smell it too.

(laughter) That's the ancestor of the red Petunia.

One of the ancestors and it doesn't have any fungal problems whatsoever.

It's a big thing in my yard.

And, anyway.

But that's, anyway.

That's what it is.

And then I had this little blue Amsonia, which is a sweet little native flower.

And there are two of them.

One of them has, the foliage turns wonderful yellow in the fall.

<Golden> Do you remember?

Yeah, there are two.

But anyway, a small, delicate little flower.

And then I also have, Lenten rose, which is, this sprawling thing that, you know, that's the, the deep yellow flower.

Because I guess it blooms during Lent, and it's not a rose at all, of course, but, but it's a colorful thing to have in the yard.

I like it.

All righty.

Well, I guess we can move on.

Terasa> Time for more questions?

Let's see what we've got.

This one came in from Ninety Six.

David said, "How can I gradually reduce the size of my Japanese holly shrub?"

I suspect this is, a fairly frequent question in terms of people don't always appreciate the full mature size of a plant.

Amanda> Yes.

And, you know that... And all of a sudden they can't see out the windows and things like that.

You know, and also a lot of people just come by with those hedge clippers and that's just not a good way to do things.

So let's talk about that.

Stephanie> Right.

So this actually came into the Greenwood office, this question.

And it was a, shrub in front of a commercial property.

But it's still a homeowner problem as well.

Often we here.

<Yes> And you're right.

First, you know, decide how big that plant's going to be at maturity.

And that'll keep you from having to trim so much.

Amanda> Although Davis Sanders has told us that they usually project like what it's going to be in five years, but that's... that's a lot less than the mature eventual size.

Is that correct?

Stephanie> Exactly.

So then you have to, you're just going to have to judge how many years are you going to spend keeping it... (laughter) maintained at that height?

And then how many years can you watch it grow to the size you really want it to be?

But, in this particular case, it had been sheared annually or, you know, every so often.

And so it just had a shell, of foliage around the outside, Amanda> Huge dead inside.

Stephanie> And everything inside was leafless.

And so, and they did not want to do a renewal pruning on this shrub because it's in a commercial property.

Which, you know, a lot of hollies, you can really cut back very deeply and, you know, take off all the growth and it'll come right back.

But, they did not want to have that look, you know, waiting for it to come back.

So, we discussed thinning cuts instead of those heading cuts that you make when you're shearing.

And so, basically you're punching holes into the shrub, reaching down in and selectively removing branches.

And allowing that light to come in, have some more foliage and then gradually reduce the overall size of the shrub in that way.

Amanda> And I say when you do that, if you just take your hand and rough it up a little bit, you won't even see the holes you punched in.

Stephanie> That's right.

Yeah.

Well, because it's so dense right now after you shear it over and over again.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

Stephanie> So they'll, they'll take a little bit of time to get that done.

But that way it won't look completely- Amanda> -So much healthier.

Stephanie> Yes, and it won't look completely denuded in the meanwhile.

So.

Yeah.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, and, I had a friend who did something like that and she got some green spray paint that was safe for plants.

(laughter) Which is not really such a bad idea.

You know, it wasn't very close to the street.

So.

Yeah.

And they do make some... Carmen> From a distance.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(laughter) Oh, goodness.

The things that we do.

<Yes> Okay.

Carmen, what you got for us?

Carmen> Oh, I've got, for the season, I thought about, let's grow some Easter grass.

So one of the things that we thought about was, you know, those Easter baskets, and you can put the plastic grass in, but what... Why do it easy when I can make it difficult?

Amanda> And you're doing this because of your little precious darling?

Carmen> Yes.

And I love a craft.

I don't think she'll remember it.

Right yet, but I'll remember it.

That's what's important.

One of the great things, and this is a very old tradition, came over... My great grandmother used to do it in Poland.

Is you can take wheat berries.

I have ryegrass, so you can do wheat berries or ryegrass.

And very gently, just, you can just sit there and sprinkle your, berries and wheat grass.

I like to, let it soak overnight.

Any of your seeds.

Amanda> So you've done that?

Okay.

Carmen> Hypothetically, (laughter) And what you want to do is over seed whatever your basket is.

Now this basket- Amanda> Can you turn it a little bit more.

Carmen> Yeah, sure.

Your... this basket is lined with plastic, so it makes it easier.

Some people would just put a plastic, container with, drainage holes right in your Easter basket to give it the look.

Whatever you'd like to do, I plan to keep this, on the porch, so I don't care if it drains out.

And ideally, you're just taking potting soil.

You're putting it in one of your baskets and then over sprinkle it- Amanda> Is that thick enough?

Or are you gonna put some more?

Carmen> Well, let's do some more.

Amanda> Okay.

And you're using... Carmen> Ryegrass right now, but I also have wheat berries that I would, I love to try it also.

And that gives the nice thick wheat grass look to it.

Carmen> And you can enjoy it.

It takes just a couple, a week or two to pop up.

Amanda> Whoa.

Carmen> Yeah.

Now, you can do it one of two ways.

You can water right into here, or you can add just the very tiniest layer of potting soil on top.

<Yes> Especially, if you're going to keep it outside where the birds might get to it.

Amanda> Oh, okay.

Carmen> I like to protect it.

You just want to push it down.

<Yeah> Give it that seed to soil contact to make sure it gets in with the nice wet soil that I have premoistened.

And, you and just- Amanda> And then you will water again?

Carmen> Water again.

<Yeah> Now, if you're doing it, this is a very deep basket.

I don't need to keep this, the whole thing wet.

<No> I take a little spritzer and I will spritz maybe once, twice a day, and then just let it have fun.

And then you have your Easter grass ready to go, and you can have it for a really fun activity.

You can hide stuff in there, the Easter eggs, whatever you want.

Amanda> And you said your grandmother from Poland?

Carmen> My great-great-grandmother from Poland used to do it.

Amanda> A lovely, lovely tradition.

That's just so sweet.

<Yeah> That's the biggest Easter basket I've ever seen.

Carmen> I know.

This is the one I liked.

You can do a much shallower Easter basket.

And so you can have whatever you want.

This one was just already lined with plastic.

Amanda> Okay, okay.

Terasa> What a cute idea.

<Yeah> Amanda> That is great, great, great, great fun.

<Yeah> Stephanie> So you just hide the eggs in there.

Carmen> I just... you can just hide the eggs in there.

You can hide the candy in there.

Amanda> Yeah, the candy.

Carmen>...like dig through it, Amanda> Okay.

<Yeah> Well I hope she'll have fun.

And you'll have to send us some pictures later on <I will> that we can share with people on our Facebook page.

Thank you so very, very much.

Carmen> You're welcome.

Amanda> Okay, Tom, what you got for us?

Tom> Well, Carmen is going to help me do another little craft.

Amanda> Okay.

Carmen> Love a craft.

Tom> Absolutely.

This is a project that the Lakelands Master Gardeners did with a group of horticulture students at, Greenwood Christian School, in January.

Amanda> What ages were the children Tom?

Tom> They're 10th grade.

Amanda> Oh grownup children.

Tom> Yeah.

Amanda> Yeah.

Okay.

Tom> And so, we had been working with them for one day every month.

And so during January, when it was too cold to get outside, this is what we did.

We're going to create a... a mini greenhouse.

And what we've done here is to put in just a little bit of- Amanda> You got a milk, yeah a big milk jug.

Tom> A milk jug, that has been cut.

I didn't do so well in, elementary school, so.

Amanda> It's fine.

(laughter) That has, that has translated into my adult life.

But, just cut and leave just about an inch or two inches right here for a hinge.

<Yes> Fill it with a fine grain, potting mix.

<Yes> And then wet that soil really, really well.

Amanda> Now, did you poke any holes in the bottom?

Tom> I did not.

<Oh> Only because I didn't want it to drip on this table.

Amanda> Oh, okay.

Tom> However, you should put some, some, drainage holes that can also be used to help keep it moist.

But drainage holes, about two on each side.

Just about at the, place where the, the carton begins to curve.

Amanda> Okay.

Tom> And then, you can take, these are just some little Thumbelina zinnia seeds.

Amanda> Oh, what fun?

Tom> And, of course, zinnias are not very fond of cold weather, so, I'm looking forward to putting these in my garden once that they- Amanda> Once the weather- Tom> Once they sprout.

So, now I'm just sprinkling them in here.

And by, usually what I say that it is, if you want, ten plants you should plant 20 seeds.

<Yes> Germination rates are not always 100 percent.

<Okay> Plus, even if they do all germinate, you can thin them out.

Or what I would call up pot.

So, separate them and put them into larger pots to grow out.

But once the seeds are in there, just, poke them about a quarter of an inch into the soil.

<Yes> And then once that's done, close the top.

And we won't do it here.

Amanda> Now would you have watered it again, after you got'em in?

Tom> You don't need to water it again.

Amanda> Cause the soil was nice and moist.

Tom> Right.

<Okay> In fact, moisten it to the point where it's almost soggy.

Amanda> Oh.

Tom> And then what you'll do is to cover it or put it back.

Take some masking tape to close this up, <Wow> and then place this on the north side of your house where it can get plenty of sun, but not too cold.

And then once they begin to germinate, you can open them up.

And of course, if the temperature gets above 70 or 75 degrees, you're going to want to come and undo this and give it a- Amanda> Or if we have a horrible late freeze.

Bring it in.

Tom> Yes.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

Tom> So and then if... if you need to water it, you can tell that after you have, put the masking tape back on it, it feels a little bit light.

Amanda> Yeah.

Tom> You can either, put a, a pump sprayer with water down here or, put it into another container.

Amanda> Or you can just open it up, put some more masking tape on it.

Tom> You can.

You can.

<Sure> And the rule of thumb to would be only plant, one type of plant or one species of plant per jug.

And write on it what you have planted.

(laughter) Amanda> With a waterproof marker.

Tom> Exactly, exactly.

So this is, a fun project that you could do with high schoolers or young children.

Amanda> Young children I think, as well.

Tom> So great project.

And teach them about horticulture all in one.

Amanda> Well do you think they enjoyed the monthly visit with y'all?

Tom> I think they do, in fact, they have all said that they like the opportunity to get out of the classroom and actually do hands-on.

<Yeah> So it's a great opportunity for them.

It's a great opportunity for us to extend, Clemson's Extension Service mission... of educating our public.

Amanda> Yes, thank you.

Thank you.

What fun.

Okay.

Something nice to do with an old jug, plastic jug.

Tom> Exactly.

Amanda> Okay.

Thank you very much.

Well, now we are going to Ashley Hall, where they had, an "Earth Day," and we had such a good time down there.

And my little friend Bea Lacy, was one of the stars of the show.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> We're at Ashley Hall in Charleston, South Carolina, and I'm talking with Allison Bowden.

And we are here for your first annual "Earth Day."

What an exciting time to come.

Allison> Ashley Hall is so excited to host an event where we had over 40 vendors and on-campus booths to celebrate plants on Earth Day, really.

And this school has been here since 1909.

We have approximately 700 students and- Amanda> -all female.

Allison> All female.

And today's event involves from two and three year olds all the way up to seniors.

Amanda> And you've also brought in a lot of people from the community, vendors and people with food and with all kinds of activities, and your own people did activities, but you kind of modeled this a little bit on the fact that Charleston just has such a huge horticultural richness.

And I think "Plantasia," was one of the things.

Allison> "Plantasia."

Charleston Horticultural Society, puts that event on and that was definitely an inspiration to us to kind of model that for, ourselves.

And one thing that's exciting is that we are really trying to educate people on the importance of native plant species.

Amanda> And other people who teach chemistry or math, everybody's trying to find a way to make this nature based learning experience part of their way of processing, teaching.

Allison> I think the cross-curricular aspect is one of the most exciting parts because it's not just limited to science, that we are able to bring in the math department the visual arts, and that we're able to bring in all of these different students that have varied interests.

And there's a lot of diversity in what we offer, because everything from toxicology to sweetgrass basket weaving, we were able to include today in our event.

Amanda> I think you're replacing all the traditional things.

Fortunately, the Live Oaks and Magnolias are native plants, but I think y'all are really trying to switch the campus over to... highlight native plants.

Allison> We are.

We have a digital platform to educate people about our native plants.

Amanda> Oh, so you're bringing in all these modern ways that kids know how to do things as well?

Allison> And recording data.

And it's really exciting to actually bring that aspect in, so that visitors to campus can see what we're doing and to learn about it.

So it's that, is available to the public.

Amanda> The people who were originally here had some exotic animals, including a bear.

And so you had this bear cave, and you've done something really transformational and very exciting with that.

Allison> Well, and we were able to take what was a bamboo, garden of sorts and really transform it.

It took a lot of work, but it was all student driven.

And so our students were the ones on the cave that were actually planting, identifying and then labeling and recording data and information on these plants.

Amanda> And it's all native plants up there, Allison> All native.

Amanda> Then I think even for the little children, you've got some gardens for them, too.

Allison> We have another native plant garden on the other side of campus, and it actually includes edible natives.

So it's really fun for those students to use all of their senses as they not only learn to recognize those edibles, but also taste them too.

Amanda> I think a lot of the vendors who came in today were, women owned businesses, because you're trying to encourage these kids to have a completely wide mind about what they might want to do, even, either as a first career or perhaps as a second career.

Allison> I'm a scientist, and so it's really important to get women into science and math, and it... We really want them to be able to see the possibilities that there is no limit to what they want to do in this world.

Amanda> Well, I've walked around and some of the things that were going on was so much fun.

The children were doing activities at different stations, even the vendors who came, usually had something for them.

Talk about some of the things that were so exciting.

Allison> So I think, bringing this community from all around Charleston to our campus, it really not only showcased what we're trying to do on our campus, but it also helped these students form connections.

And I think that's really important as they are learning how to be stewards of their environment, they are seeing what that looks like beyond our campus fence.

Amanda> Everywhere you look, there were people who were saying, "Well, this might be the way that you're going to be most excited."

And so your kids can say, "well, that's the one that I really maybe think I'll volunteer for."

Allison> Well, and looking at the connection between plants and environment, too.

So the Marsh Project was here and they're looking at, if you are able to teach these students and educate them to have an appreciation, they're more likely to then protect and conserve our natural resources.

So, actually taking these smaller tidbits, these, why are native plants important?

Not just to the pollinators, though that's important, but also to preserving and protecting, especially in the Lowcountry with a lot of marsh, protecting those areas from things that could potentially threaten them.

Amanda> Well, I think that the educational aspect was very important in connecting people to the wider world and making them understand all of this, but, I declare, the little crafts that they were doing were just charming.

Everybody was having such a marvelous time.

And when I got here, y'all were so kind, somebody had even taken the time to make me a hat, and I wanted to go over in the face painting booth but they told me, I couldn't do that.

(laughs) But, your teachers who were here, were doing just wonderfully creative things and giving things that kids could take home.

And then they were talking to their parents and their grandparents about them.

So it just continues the, the conversation.

I think y'all have made a wonderful start, and I hope that we can come back in the future.

Allison> Absolutely.

We plan to host many more of these, Amanda.

Amanda> Well, congratulations on a bang up first attempt.

Allison> Thank you so much.

♪ ♪ Amanda> Ashley Hall has lots of activities throughout the year and, a lot of fun kids there.

So keep up with them through their website.

Ohh, agh.

So, on my ride over and I just get so distressed and disappointed and downhaearted because I see this everywhere.

So, Carmen, tell me why this is so horrible.

Carmen> This is our, non-native Wisteria.

And, you know, all the most dangerous things are the prettiest, aren't they?

(laughter) But it can, it ends up, in its vining capacity, comes up into just about every tree.

You see it all over this time of year, and it actually will choke out a lot of native plants.

A lot of your tree species.

I have to fight it back on multiple trees every year on the property.

Amanda> And it can actually strangle the tree, so to speak.

I mean, it can... And then one of the worst things is it grows over the tops of trees, and so there's no sunlight.

Carmen> And it, and it just ends up out competing everything else.

And so even though it is very, very pretty, it is extremely problematic.

And it is, I don't know, a corner of the state that doesn't have it.

Amanda> And when I drive back and forth, there was a big forested area and they said sustainably managed forest, forestry.

And I saw they clear cut.

And I asked the person and he said they were losing 12 acres a year to Wisteria.

And so they had to go in there and do that.

I mean, it's stunningly dangerous, from that standpoint.

So let's talk about what we can do if we have it in our yard.

Stephanie help us out, or property that we are in charge of.

Stephanie> Well so, a lot of the nuisance vines, what I would recommend for homeowners is to look for a brush killer product.

It'll be ready to use.

Of course, read the label thoroughly.

And it will explain an application, that we normally call as like a cut and paint.

So you can find the base of the stem, the vine.

You don't have to get on a ladder to spray anything.

Amanda> Yeah, wonderful.

Stephanie> Safety first.

And then you can just apply the concentrate straight to that cut area and it'll kill, it's a systemic herbicide, so it'll kill, back to the roots.

So it won't relieve the tree of any girdling that's already happened.

But at least it will eliminate- Amanda> But as it dies- Stephanie> -that plant.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

And I've done that with poison ivy too, very carefully.

You know- Stephanie> Kudzu, poison ivy, a brush killer product is very good for that.

Amanda> And, what I do is I get... a little can, metal can, and then I put it in a big metal can, so I won't spill it.

And I also have learned, Tom, to get something red and paint the handle of my paintbrush.

I get this little throwaway paintbrushes, you know, because otherwise I set it down and it's in the leaves, and dang, I can't find the thing.

I mean, I even lose clippers that are, you know, have red handles.

But it really is just, there are other things our native one is quite lovely.

We have lots of native vines that are beautiful.

Anyway, so look those native vines up and plant them instead.

And join us next week right here on Making It Grow .

Night-night.

(theme music begins) ♪ (Jane reading excerpt) "Finally, I have approached the subject with a smile in hopes that you share my vision that each of us, in doing good can feel gratified and empowered.

Knowing that our personal landscapes can be tools for expressing our deep affection for the Earth.

We can make conscious, positive garden choices.

We can each be individual strands in the amazing woven tapestry of all life."

♪ Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

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Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.