THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY.•• FIRST, ALERTING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SURVIVORS IF THEIR ABUSERS TRY TO BUY GUNS.

THEN, IS FAMILY PLANNING THE ANSWER TO CLIMATE CHANGE?

BEHIND THE HEADLINES: TITLE IX, "IT'S ON US," ONE FEMINIST SAYS THEY HURT NOT HELP WOMEN AND GIRLS.

HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY, A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST.•• THE STATE OF WASHINGTON IS TAKING A BIG STEP TO PROTECT SURVIVORS OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE.

WASHINGTON WILL BE THE FIRST STATE TO REQUIRE LAW ENFORCEMENT TO ALERT SURVIVORS WHEN THEIR ABUSERS ATTEMPT TO BUY GUNS.

THE LAW TAKES EFFECT THIS MONTH.

FEDERAL LAW BARS ANYONE WHO'S BEEN CONVICTED OF MISDEMEANOR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE OR IS UNDER A PROTECTIVE ORDER FOR DOMESTIC ABUSE, TO BUY OR OWN A FIREARM.

THE BILL ALSO HELPS POLICE CONDUCT INVESTIGATIONS INTO FAILED ATTEMPTS TO PURCHASE FIREARMS OR WHEN SOMEONE TRIES TO BUY A GUN BUT FAILS THE BACKGROUND CHECK.

THESE FAILED ATTEMPTS ARE ALSO KNOWN AS "LIE AND TRY" ATTEMPTS.

THE NEW LAW ONLY APPLIES TO SURVIVORS WHOSE ABUSERS HAVE A COURT CONVICTION OR WHO WENT TO COURT TO GET A COURT-ORDERED RESTRAINING ORDER.

WOMEN'S RIGHTS ADVOCATES SAY WHEN ABUSERS HAVE WEAPONS, WOMEN ARE 5 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE KILLED DURING A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE INCIDENT THAN WHEN ABUSERS DON'T.

LET'S HAVE A ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR THE NOTIFICATION REQUIREMENTS IN THE WASHINGTON STATE LAW, THE FIRST TIME WE HAVE SEEN A STATE VALUE WOMEN'S LIVES OVER NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION OBJECTIONS.

>> THIS LAW SETS AN IMPORTANT PRECEDENT ANDS I THINK IT IS A POSITIVE BUT WE HAVE WORK TO DO IN WASHINGTON TO GET TO A PLACE WHERE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT GUN CONTROL.

>> I DO NOT THINK ABUSERS CAN ACCESS GUNS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

>> I CANNOT BELIEVE AT THE NRA WOULD OBJECT AND I THINK IT IS A GOOD STEP AND I WILL BE HAPPY TO TALK TO WAYNE AND ASAGE HIS CONCERNS.

>> HASN'T FROM WHERE I SIT, THE NRA HAS BECOME NOTHING BUT A MARKETING TOOL FOR THE GUN INDUSTRY.

THEY GET MONEY OFF OF FROM THE GUN PRODUCING COMPANIES AND THEY OBJECT TO EVERY LITTLE THING.

THIS TO ME IS REALLY MINOR.

HOW COULD AN ORGANIZATION OBJECT TO THIS?

>> I CANNOT BELIEVE AGAIN THE NOTIFICATION PART THEY WOULD OBJECT TO.

BUT THEY SEE THAT EVERYTHING IS SORT OF THE NOSE UNDER THE CAMEL'S TENT.

>> ISN'T IT MORE ABOUT SELLING THAT ONE LAST GUN, EVEN IF TO A GUY WHO IS GOING TO KILL HIS EX-GIRLFRIEND.

>> THEY UNDERSTAND THE PRESSURE IF THEY BUCKLE AT ALL THE PRESSURE WILL BE TO PUSH FURTHER.

THEY ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE VICTORY.

>> IT APPEARS AS THOUGH THE NRA SOLUTION TO EVERYTHING IS MORE GUNS.

THEIR SOLUTION TO SCHOOL SHOOTINGS IS TO ARM THE TEACHERS AND DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IS TO ARM THE VICTIM.

THIS LEADS TO MORE VIOLENCE.

AND MORE GUN SALES.

>> EXACTLY.

>> WELL, AGAIN, I'M IN THE SAME PLACE WITH RESPECT TO THIS.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE HAVE TO START A CONVERSATION AT SOME POINT ABOUT WHAT WE DO ABOUT THE NUMBER OF GUNS IN THIS COUNTRY AND HOW THEY ARE BEING USED AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I CANNOT SUPPORT THE NRA AND THE EFFORTS TO PURSUE THAT ROUTE.

BUT NOTIFICATION AND ALLOWING STATES LIKE WASHINGTON AND OTHERS TO TAKE ON THE OPPORTUNITY TO AT LEAST LET WOMEN KNOW WHERE THINGS STAND IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

>> THE SAD THING IS THE CONVERSATION ABOUT GUN CONTROL IS SO STALLED.

IN ANY OTHER COUNTRY MAYBE THIS WOULD NOT BE IN A GOOD SOLUTION BUT IN AMERICA, BETTER THAN NOTHING.

KEEPING THE GUNS AWAY FROM THE ABUSERS IN THE FIRST PLACE AND REDUCING ACCESS TO ARMS HOW EASY IT IS IN AMERICA MORE THAN ANY COUNTRY TO ACCESS FIREARMS I MEAN IT IS NOT A CONVERSATION.

>> WHAT IT IS ABOUT PEOPLE [INAUDIBLE] THEY SHOOT THEM.

AND WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT IS WHAT THE GUN CAN DO IN A DOMESTIC SITUATION.

FOR EXAMPLE, WE HEARD DATE RAPE AND TRYING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.

THESE LAWS GENERALLY NOT THE WASHINGTON STATE LAW, DON'T COVER PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT MARRIED.

THESE ARE LOOPHOLES OF THE KIND THAT COST PEOPLE'S LIVES EVERYDAY ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> EVEN THE WASHINGTON -- >> IT DOES.

AND THAT IS WHERE IT TAKES A LEAP FORWARD AND SAYS TO OTHER STATES, LOOK, IF PEOPLE LIVE TOGETHER NOT JUST IF THEY ARE MARRIED, THEY MUST BE COVERED.

>> I TELL YOU, THIS MAY SOUND SILLY IN A WAY BUT THE NOTIFICATION OVER AND ABOVE THE WOMEN THEN BEING PREPARED SHE COULD BUY KEVLAR.

AND THE IRONY IS A WOMAN IS THE ONE WHO INVENTED KEVLAR.

THAT COULD PROTECT HER BY WEARING A BULLET-PROOF VEST.

>> DO YOU WANT TO GO TO SLEEP IN A BULLET-PROOF VEST EVERY NIGHT?

>> THIS CONVERSATION IS ABOUT MAKING PEOPLE FEEL SAFE AND WHEN THE MEN DO NOT FEEL SAFE AND GIVEN THE AMOUNT OF GUNS AND YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENED AND PEOPLE HAVE ANGER AND A VEHICLE AND A TOOL TO USE IT.

NOT HAVING A KNIFE BUT A GUN IS A BIG FACTOR.

FOR ME, START THINKING ABOUT THIS IS ABOUT SAFETY AND ABOUT PROTECTING PEOPLE OF ALL WALKS OF LIFE AND SOME OF THE UNMARRIED WOMEN ARE NOT BEING PROTECTED AND THAT IS A PROBLEM, TOO.

>> WHAT ABOUT SALES OF GUN SHOWS WHICH ARE UNREGULATED?

>> AND THERE'S ALSO THE ISSUE OF BACKGROUND CHECKS AND SOME ARE NOT AS EFFECTIVE FOR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE OR ASSAULT SITUATIONS WHERE IT DOESN'T REGULARSTER.

SO THE PERSON IS ABLE TO ACCESS A GUN BECAUSE IT IS A MISDEMEANOR CHARGE AND THINGS PROBLEMS IN THE SYSTEM AND LOOPHOLES THINGS WE CAN BE CORRECTING WE NEED TO START.

YOU ARE RIGHT GUN CONTROL WILL BE HARD TO BATTLE BUT WE CAN DO THINGS TO MAKE PEOPLE SAFER.

>> EVERY WOMAN'S SITUATION IS DIFFERENT.

IF I GET A NOTIFICATION HOW ARE YOU GOING TO RESPOND?

>> CALL THE POLICE.

>> THEY DON'T ALWAYS PROTECT THE WOMEN.

THE SITUATIONS IT HAS TO BE A HOLISTIC APPROACH AND IT'S COMPLICATED.

>> WHAT ELSE IS THERE TO DO BESIDES CALL THE POLICE?

>> NOTIFICATION INFORMATION SHARING THAT HAS TO BE THE FIRST STEP.

>> YOU ARE SO RIGHT.

THERE'S DUE PROCESS.

THE MAP HAS NOT BEEN -- MAN HAS NOT BEEN CONVICTED YET YOU NEED TO KNOW.

>> WHO COULD OBJECT TO THAT?

>> TO MOVE TO GO UNDERGROUND?

>> STAY WITH FAMILY, TO FIND WAYS TO PROTECT THEMSELVES.

>> IT TAKES A CONVICTION IN A COUNTRY THAT BELIEVES IN DUE PROCESS AND THESE ARE THE COMPLICATIONS AND THIS IS WASHINGTON STATE IS DOING, ALL KINDS OF NOTIFICATIONS.

TO HELP PROTECT YOURSELF.

>> SHOULD OTHER STATES BE FOLLOWING THIS MODEL?

>> THEY ARE THE FIRST.

AND I HOPE THEY ARE THE FIRST OF 50.

>> YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> WELL, I HAVE FRIENDS THAT WERE MURDERED BY THEIR SPOUSES.

IN DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SITUATIONS.

ACTUALLY BOTH IN THE WASHINGTON D.C. AREA.

AND I DON'T KNOW IF THEY KNEW THAT THEIR ABUSER HAD BOUGHT A GUN.

AND I HAPPEN TO THINK THEY WOULD HAVE PROTECTED THEMSELVES AND MAYBE NOT MET THE SPOUSE OUT IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE AND HAD HIM GET OUT OF THE CAR AND SHOOT HER IN FRONT OF THE CHILDREN OR THE OTHER ONE COME INTO THE HOME AND SHOOT HER WHEN HE HAD BEEN BARRED FROM THE HOUSE.

>> ARE THERE MANY PEOPLE IN AMERICA WHO WANT A WEAPON WHO DO ISN'T THERE OPEN ACCESS?

>> WELL, WOMEN ARE BUYING GUNS AT A HIGHER RATE THAN MEN AND GETTING A LOT OF THE TRAINING.

NRA'S BIGGEST GROWTH IN MEMBERSHIP IS AMONG WOMEN.

>> YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> WRONG SOLUTION BUT THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING.

>> ALL RIGHT.

RECENT NEWS OF A GIANT ICEBERG THE SIZE OF DELAWARE BREAKING OFF IN ANTARCTICA IS REFUELING CONCERNS ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE.

NOW RESEARCH SUGGESTS FAMILY PLANNING COULD BE A STRATEGY FOR CURBING GLOBAL CARBON EMISSIONS.

A STUDY FROM LUND UNIVERSITY IN SWEDEN FOUND HAVING FEWER CHILDREN IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO REDUCE CLIMATE CHANGE.

OTHER HIGH IMPACT WAYS TO CUT CO2 GAS EMISSIONS INCLUDE LIVING WITHOUT A CAR, AVOIDING PLANE TRAVEL AND EATING A VEGETARIAN DIET.

HOWEVER, HAVING ONE LESS CHILD IN A DEVELOPED COUNTRY COULD REDUCE THOSE EMISSIONS BY 58.6 METRIC TON PER YEAR.

THAT COMPARES WITH A 2.4 METRIC TON REDUCTION FOR LIVING CAR-FREE.

HOWEVER, THE STUDY'S CO- AUTHOR SAYS (TOLD NPR?)

IT'S NOT HER PLACE AS A SCIENTIST TO DICTATE CHOICES FOR OTHER PEOPLE.

CENSUS FIGURES SHOW IN 2014 ALMOST 48% OF WOMEN BETWEEN THE AGES OF 15 AND 44 HAD NEVER HAD CHILDREN UP FROM ALMOST 47% IN 2012.

SO, JEN, IN THE 70s, DISCUSSION ABOUT POPULATION OVERPOPULATION, PEOPLE HAVING TOO MANY CHILDREN WAS ON THE NATIONAL MEDIA AGENDA IT WAS POPULAR.

AND PEOPLE TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION THE DAMAGE THEY WOULD DO TO THE PLANET BY HAVING LARGE FAMILIES.

SHOULD THAT BE -- BUT IT'S DISAPPEARED THE DISCUSSION HAS DISAPPEARED.

SHOULD THAT COME BACK?

>> I AM NOT A FAN OF THE IDEA OF POPULATION CONTROL.

>> WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT CONTROL.

LET ME STATE NOBODY SAID ANYTHING ABOUT CONTROL.

IT'S LIKE INFORMATION.

>> SURE.

AND INFORMATION IS GREAT.

I THINK THAT IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MAKING CHANGES IN OUR SOCIETY FAMILY PLANNING AS A SOLUTION TO CLIMATE CHANGE WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT ALL THE OTHER SOLUTIONS PUT TOGETHER AND THAT HAS THE BIGGEST IMPACT BUT I COULD DRIVE A TESLA AND USE A REUSABLE BAG AND INFRASTRUCTURE REFORM AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT HELP US GET TO THAT PLACE.

>> RIGHT.

BUT AS WE NOTED IN THE STUDY SAYS, NOT HAVING ONE -- HAVING ONE FEWER CHILD REDUCES THE CARBON FOOTPRINT BY 30 TIMES PER YEAR.

WHAT BUYING AN ELECTRIC CAR DOES.

>> AND I RECOGNIZE THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT BUT I RECOGNIZE THAT LIFESTYLE CHOICES IS SOMETHING THAT WE COME BACK TO.

IF YOU MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICES MAYBE WE ARE HELPING THE ENVIRONMENT TOGETHER.

AS A REPUBLICAN AND SOMEBODY WHO THINKS WE CAN FIND OTHER WAYS TO ADDRESS CLIMATE CHANGE I'M NOT SURE DROPPING THE NUMBER OF KIDS OFF IS -- >> NOT AS A REPUBLICAN BECAUSE THEY ARE THE CLIMATE CHANGE DENIERS.

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.

I NEVER REALIZED ONE ADDITIONAL PERSON, CAN ADD SO MUCH MORE AND ALL WE ARE TRYING TO DO THOSE OF US WHO BELIEVE THE SCIENTISTS WILL NOT MATTER UNLESS WE DO SOMETHING BIGGER.

THIS IS WHY I'M HOPEFUL.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS HAPPENING IN THE WORLD.

>> IN THE WESTERN COUNTRIES.

>> IN THE WESTERN COUNTRIES AND WHEN EXPOSED IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD, TOO.

WHEN PEOPLE LEARN THAT THE FASTEST, EASIEST WAY TO INCREASE YOUR INCOME IS TO HAVE ONE LESS CHILD, THEY EMBRACE IT.

SO WE ARE ALREADY ON OUR WAY.

CLIMATE CHANGE DENIERS AND SCIENTISTS THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN SCIENCE, SHOULD SAY THIS IS WHERE PEOPLE GO WHEN THEY ARE TRYING TO BECOME MIDDLE CLASS AND RAISE THEIR INCOMES.

LET US EMBRACE THIS ONE WAY BECAUSE WHAT WE ARE DOING NOW IS STILL TAKING US TO A TIME WHEN NONE OF US WILL BE ABLE TO LIVE ON THIS PLANET.

IT'S HAPPENING EVERYDAY.

IT'S HAPPENING IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND WE'VE GOT TO BEGIN TO DO SOMETHING BIG ABOUT IT.

>> WE ARE NOT CLIMATE CHANGE DENIERS AS REPUBLICANS.

WHAT WE RECOGNIZE IS WHAT IMPACT HUMAN FACTOR HAS ON IT.

BUT I THINK THE INFORMATION -- >> WHAT REPUBLICANS SAY IS IT'S NOT HUMAN-MADE.

IN OTHER WORDS IT EXISTS.

>> HUMANS CONTRIBUTE TO A PART OF IT.

AND THEREFORE THE INFORMATION YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ONE LESS CHILD CONTRIBUTING TO ECONOMIC WELL-BEING AND THE IMPACT ON THE CLIMATE THAT IS A GREAT THING TO SHARE WITH PEOPLE TO MAKE BETTER CHOICES FOR THEIR LIVES.

WE DENY WHAT PART HUMANS CAN DO TO IMPACT IT.

>> THIS ENTIRE CONVERSATION WAS DEJA VU EVERYTHING WAS ALWAYS ABOUT POPULATION CONTROL AND IN 1994 WHEN THE CAIRO CONVENTION HAPPENED IT WAS SHIFT TO GO FROM CONTROL TO WOMEN'S EMPOWERMENT.

>> EDUCATING WOMEN.

>> EXACTLY.

>> I WAS THERE.

>> THAT IS AWESOME.

AND ACCESS TO BIRTH CONTROL AND FAMILY PLANNING.

THAT IS A WHOLE OTHER CONVERSATION.

COMING FROM THE POSTER CHILD FOR CLIMATE CHANGE, THEN YOU HAVE COUNTRIES LIKE AMERICA, THAT IS CARBON FOOTPRINT IS GREATER THAN DEVELOPING COUNTRY LIKE BANGLADESH WHERE THE POPULATION IS OUT OF CONTROL.

EVERYBODY HAS A BIG PART TO PLAY.

>> WHAT ABOUT -- AGAIN, WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT CONTROL.

WHAT ABOUT CHANGING TAX POLICY?

SHOULD THE CHILD TAX CREDIT GO OUT THE WINDOW AND GET CREDITS FOR HAVING FEWER KIDS RATHER THAN HAVING MORE?

>> I THINK THE IDEA OF CARROT VERSUS STICK APPROACH, THERE IS A FACTOR TO BE ACKNOWLEDGE ANDED.

I'VE NOT SURE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TAX REFORM IN CONGRESS AND CHANGING TAX CREDITS TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

>> WE ARE AT ZERO POPULATION GROWTH IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

>> NO.

ELEANOR -- >> EXCEPT FOR IMMIGRATION.

>> WHICH IS INCREASING OUR POPULATION VERY RAPIDLY.

>> BUT THAT IS A BETTER WAY TO INCREASE POPULATION THAN PEOPLE HAVING SEVEN AND EIGHT CHILDREN.

>> ELEANOR, SINCE I WAS BORN, WHEN OUR POPULATION WAS 170 MILLION, WE ARE NOW AT 330, WE WILL BE AT 450, 450 MILLION BY MID-CENTURY.

80% OF THAT -- NO, WOMEN WHO ARE BORN HERE AND EDUCATED, TEND TO HAVE FEWER CHILDREN AND THEY HAVE WE ARE NOT EVEN AT REPRODUCTION RATE.

IN OTHER WORDS 1.7 OR 1.8 CHILD PER WOMAN PER LIFETIME THAT WOULD NOT KEEP THE POPULATION AT WHAT IT IS NOW.

BUT WITH IMMIGRATION, WE ARE -- WE ARE COMING CLOSE TO DOUBLING IN A LIFETIME.

>> ALL RIGHT, DONALD TRUMP.

>> ONE HUMAN LIFETIME.

>> OOOOH.

>> AND THE FACT THAT 225 MILLION CURRENTLY IN THE WORLD DO NOT ACCESS TO FAMILY PLANNING OR REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH SERVICES.

NO WOMAN WANTS TO HAVE SEVEN CHILDREN AND DIE.

IT'S CONNED SENDING WELL, THE DEVELOPING COUNTRIES THAT NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

>> FOR THE LONGEST TIME U.S.A. ID, THE AGENCY WAS MAKING GRANTS TO PLACES LIKE BANGLADESH I DID NOT COVER IT THERE BUT I DID GO TO INDIA AND OTHER PLACES.

BUT THAT FUNDING IS GOING TO BE KILLED.

>> WE ARE AGREEING AGAIN, OH, MY GOD.

FOR EXAMPLE FAMILY PLANNING WORLDWIDE IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE PROMOTED.

IN MALAISA WHEN I VISITED IT BECAME A SIGN OF STATUS AND A POSITIVE THING AND THEY WOULD PUT SYMBOLS ON THEIR HOUSES TO SHOW THEY WERE USING FAMILY PLANNING AND THAT WAS SOMETHING SPURRED ON BY THE U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT IN THE 60s AND 70s.

>> ISN'T PRESIDENT TRUMP GOING TO CUT THAT FUNDING?

>> PLANNED PARENTHOOD TO BEGIN WITH.

>> HE WILL CUT SOME.

>> BUT IT THE POINT IS -- >> WE WON'T HAVE THE ACCESS THAT THEY HAVE.

LET ANNE FINISH.

>> THERE WILL BE MONEY AVAILABLE.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THE PROGRAM IS OBLITERATED BUT MAYBE SCALED BACK.

AGAIN, WE AGREE, I CANNOT BELIEVE I'M SAYING THAT AND THAT WE NEED TO EFFECT IT AROUND THE WORLD, U.S. IS NOT THE BIGGEST PART OF THE PROBLEM BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN ADDRESSING CLIMATE CHANGE AND THE CARBON FOOTPRINT AND TAKEN POSITIVE STEPS WHERE COUNTRIES HAVEN'T.

WE SHOULD CONTINUE THOSE POLICIES.

WRAP IT UP.

>> WE DON'T HAVE TO BE PART OF THE PARIS ACCORD TO DO THAT.

>> PROMOTE FAMILY PLANNING WORLDWIDE AND I AGREE, OH, MY GOD.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES: FEMINISM AND VICTIMOLOGY.

ARE YOUNG WOMEN PLAYING THE VICTIM CARD TOO OFTEN?

AUTHOR, PROFESSOR AND SOCIAL CRITIC CAMILLE PAGLIA SAYS YES.

TODAY YOU HAVE GIRLS WHO HAVE TO HAVE LESSONS TO SAY NO.

>> SHE IS A CRITIC HER LATEST BOOK, FREE WOMEN AND FREE MEN, ADDRESSES MODERN FEMINISM AND HOW IT PLAYS OUT ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES AND SHE SAYS COLLEGE ADMINISTRATORS NEED TO STOP INTERFERING IN STUDENTS' LIVES BUT WHEN A CRIME OCCURS THAT SHOULD BE REPORTED TO THE POLICE.

>> I THINK THIS MONITORING OF STUDENT BEHAVIOR IS ACTUALLY UNDERCUTTING WOMEN AND PREVENTING THEM FROM LEARNING THE SKILLS THAT THEY NEED FOR THE WORKPLACE.

IN THE WORKPLACE IT'S UP TO EACH WOMAN INDIVIDUALLY TO DEFINE HER OWN LIMITS AND TO MAINTAIN HER OWN DIGNITY.

TO TREAT WOMEN IN THIS DEPENDENT CONDITION THIS WAY ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES I THINK IS UNDERCUTTING THE FUTURE GENERATION OF LEADERS.

>> A DEMOCRAT AND SUPPORTER OF BERNIE SANDERS, SHE IS CRITICAL OF THE IT'S ON US CAMPAIGN.

THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION ANTISEXUAL ASSAULT INITIATIVE WAS SPEARHEADED BY VICE-PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN AND IT FOCUSES ON COLLEGE MEN.

>> ANYONE LIKE VICE-PRESIDENT BIDEN, WHO SPEAKS IN THESE TERMS, THIS SANK MONEYIOUS, QUAZ SI RELIGIOUS TERMS AS THE COLLEGE CAMPUS AS A ENVIRONMENT A WILD SAVANNAH WHERE GIRLS ARE SO DISABLED FROM MANAGING THEIR OWN LIVES THAT THEY NEED THE CONSTANT HOVERING, HELICOPTER PRESENCE OF THE PARENTAL PROXYINGS ON THE BOARDS AND SO ON.

THIS IS SUCH AN INSULT TO MODERN WOMEN.

>> SHE ADDRESSES TITLE 9, THE FEDERAL LAW PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF SEX IN FEDERALLY FUNDED COLLEGE EDUCATION PROGRAMS AND ACTIVITIES IS BEING SCRUTINIZED BY EDUCATION SECRETARY BETSEY DeVOS.

THEE MET WITH SURVIVORS AND MALE STUDENTS FALSELY ACCUSED OF SEXUAL ASSAULT AND ADMINISTRATORS FOR THEIR PERSPECTIVES.

TITLE 9 HAS GONE TOO FAR AND IS CRITICAL OF THE ROLE HER PARTY PLAYED IN WHAT SHE SAYS IS THAT EXPANSION.

>> THE DEMOCRATS SHOULD BE EMBARRASSED OK THAT YOU NEED DeVOS TO COME IN AND TO THANK GOD HOPEFULLY, SWEEP AWAY THESE STUPID INTRUSIVE REGULATIONS THROUGH TITLE 9.

HOW SAD IT IS THAT I HAVE TO LOOK TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO LIBERATE THE UNIVERSITIES.

>> SHE GETS PUSHBACK FOR HER CRITIQUES BUT IS PASSIONATE ABOUT HER BELIEF THIS IS NOT THE EQUALITY HER GENERATION FOUGHT FOR IN THE 1960s.

SHE WANTS WOMEN TO STAND UP AND NOT SEE THEMSELVES AS VICTIMS.

>> EVERY WOMAN HAS THE OBLIGATION TO DRAW THE LINE OK, BEHAVIOR EVEN IN THE WORKPLACE, EVEN WITH A BOSS, YOU MUST LEARN TO DRAW THE LINE.

SOMETHING DISTURBS YOU, SOMETHING OFF COLOR, YOU SPEAK UP.

YOU DON'T WAIT DOWN THE ROAD.

YOU DON'T GO INTO AN OFFICE AND COMPLAIN TO A SEXUAL HARASSMENT OFFICER.

YOU INDICATE NOW AT THIS MOMENT THAT WHAT HAS BEEN SAID WHAT HAS BEEN DONE IS OFFENSIVE TO YOU AS A WOMAN.

AND UNTIL WOMEN LEARN THAT MY PHILOSOPHY IS STREET SMART TELL WOMEN TO LEARN THAT.

THEY WILL BE WARDS OF THE STATE.

>> SO, YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?

DO YOU AGREE WITH PROFESSOR THAT PROSECUTION OF SEXUAL ASSAULT ON CAMPUS SHOULD BE MOVED FROM THE UNIVERSITY TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT?

>> I DO.

I DO.

YES AND NO.

I FEEL LIKE HER MAIN PROBLEM IS THAT SHE IS BEING CONNED SENDING TO WOMEN.

WOMEN ARE SAYING NO.

OUR PRESIDENT SAID THAT HE CAN GRAB US BY OUR GENITALIA.

I DO NOT THINK IT IS A PROBLEM WITH WOMEN SPEAKING UP.

IT'S RAPE CULTURE.

WE ARE NOT GETTING THE SUPPORT AT WORKPLACES.

WE ARE NOT GETTING THE SUPPORT AT OUR ACADEMIC INSTITUTIONS.

YOU CANNOT BLAME IT ON US THAT WE ARE NOT SPEAKING UP.

>> SHE OVERSTATES WHAT WOMEN CAN DO.

I'M LISTENING TO HER.

AND THE REASON, YOU THINK ABOUT THE MILLENNIALS IT'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT HOW THEIR FEELINGS GET HURT WHEN SOMEBODY SAYS SOMETHING AGAINST THEM EVEN AFRICAN-AMERICAN THEY CALLED ME A DIRTY NAME.

SO STOP -- REMEMBER THIS... MEN CAN OVERPOWER ME OR MOST WOMEN.

SO IT'S NOT AS IF A WOMAN IN A SITUATION WHERE IT'S HE SAID SHE SAID HAS ANYWAY TO STRIKE BACK HERSELF.

ON THE OTHER HAND, I AM FOR INCLUDING IN WOMEN'S EMPOWERMENT THE OBLIGATION TO STAND UP AND NOT WHINE.

NOW, SHE IS SO OVERSTATES THE CASE THAT SHE IS GOING TO TURN OFF EVERYBODY ABOUT WHEN YOU CONSIDER THAT ONE OF THE MOST EGREGIOUS AND SAY THE MOST EGREGIOUS CRIME THAT TAKES PLACE ON CAMPUSES TODAY IS DATE RAPE.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET ANYWHERE SAYING SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH WOMEN.

YOU WILL GET SOMEWHERE SAYING WAIT A MINUTE LET'S SEE WHAT WOMEN EMPOWERMENT IS ALL ABOUT, WHAT CAN WOMEN DO.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION.

>> THIS IS MORE THAN DATE RAPE THIS IS ABOUT WOMEN'S SUCCESS IN THEIR LIVES.

AND HER MESSAGE, ALBEIT DELIVERED STRANGELY, ACTUALLY TAKES A LITTLE BIT FROM WHAT CHERYL SANDBERG SAID ABOUT LEAN IN.

NOT ALLOWING YOURSELF TO BE A VICTIM.

AND WOMEN ARE TAUGHT AS CHILDREN -- >> AND CHERYL SANDBERG IS FAR FROM THE FIRST PERSON TO EVER COMBAT VICTIMOLOGY.

>> TRUE.

>> IT'S BEEN 20-30 YEARS.

>> MORE CURRENT VERSION OF IT.

SO PRIORITY FROM INFANCY, A BOOK CALLED A DIFFERENT VOICE TALKS ABOUT TRACKING WAS DONE OF MALE AND FEMALE INFANTS, GIRLS ARE TAUGHT FROM THE WOMB UP TO BE DEPENDENT AND MEN AREN'T.

MEN ARE ENCOURAGED TO BE INDEPENDENT.

NOT TRUE IN ALL FAMILIES AND LESS TRUE IN TODAY'S FAMILY BUT IT IS A DEPENDENCY MINDSET THAT WE ARE GIVEN.

IT'S GOOD TO HAVE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT IT AND MORE HAS TO BE DONE IN THE HIGH SCHOOLS AND BEFORE HIGH SCHOOL TO TEACH GIRLS IT IS OK TO SPEAK UP.

>> AND WE HEARD RECENTLY THAT BETSEY DOSE VOSS THE -- DeVOS, THE PERSON IN CHARGE OF PROSECUTING CRIMES UNDER TITLE 9 SHE IS GIVING MORE LEEWAY NOT TO PROSECUTE SAYING WE ARE GOING TO WORK ON THE BACKLOG BUT WHAT THEY ARE SAYING ACCORDING TO MANY FEMINISTS IS THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO PROSECUTE MEN WHO SEXUALLY ASSAULT WOMEN FROM THIS DAY FORWARD.

AND DO YOU -- WHAT DO YOU THINK CAMILLE WOULD HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT AND DO YOU AGREE?

>> I THINK THE CONVERSATION AND THE NOTION ABOUT DeVOS' AREA AROUND DUE PROCESS IS REPREHENSIBLE IT IS A DANGEROUS.

AND WHAT WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT AND SHE TALKS ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS.

BUT WHAT WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT IS SORT OF WHAT WE CAN DO TO EMPOWER AND PROP UP WOMEN AND GIVE THEM THE RESOURCES AND TOOLS THEY NEED TO HAVE THAT CONTROL AND TO HAVE THAT POWER AND SOME OF THAT IN THE DIALOGUE IS BEING TAKEN AWAY IS BECAUSE WE HAVE CODDLED PEOPLE AND TAUGHT THEM NOT ONLY IS KNOWLEDGE POWER AND HOW THE PROCESS WORKS AND TO GET THROUGH KNOWING THE PROCESS IS GOING TO GET THROUGH IT.

>> QUICKLY.

>> SHE COMPLETELY MISSES THAT POINT.

LOOK WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DO REPORT.

LOOK WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE COSBY CASE.

>> THAT IS IT FOR THIS EDITION VISIT ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE.

PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF TO THE CONTRARY, VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

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