[MUSIC] >> A 1 BILLION-DOLLAR EVER AT INDIANA MEDICAID HOLCOMB ON THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION AND MAYORS WANT LAWMAKERS TO BACK OFF A MORE FROM THE TELEVISION STUDIOS AT WFYI IT IS "INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW" FOR THE WEEK ENDING JANUARY 5, 2024.

THIS WEEK HEADING INTO THE 2024 SESSION INDIANA'S MEDICAID PROGRAM WILL TALK -- COST ABOUT $1 BILLION MORE IN THE CURRENT STATE BUDGET THAN PREVIOUS EXPECTED.

THE STATE REVEALED AN ERROR IN THE ESTIMATE LAWMAKERS USED TO WRITE THE STATE BUDGET.

THE UNDERESTIMATE CENTERED LARGELY ON HOME AND COMMUNITY-BASED LONG-TERM CARE SERVICES.

STATE MEDICAID USER SAY THE FLOW OF UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION WAS NOT USE -- GOOD ENOUGH WHEN THEY GIVE THE ESTIMATE IN APRIL.

LEADERS PLEDGED TO MAKE CHANGES TO THEIR PROCESS AND REPUBLICAN SENATOR SAYS AN ERROR LIKE THIS CANNOT HAPPEN AGAIN.

>> WE NEED TO TAKE MORE OF AN INTERNAL ROLL WITH THEM ALONG WITH MEDICAID OVERSIGHT AND WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE SURE IT DOES NOT HAPPEN AGAIN.

>> THE STATE WILL DIP INTO BUDGET RESERVES TO MAKE UP THE SHORTFALL IN THE CURRENT BUDGET ND THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET DIRECTOR SAYS LONG-TERM CONVERSATIONS ARE NEEDED ABOUT THE GROWTH OF THE MEDICAID PROGRAM.

>> THIS AMOUNT OF GROWTH CANNOT CONTINUE SO THERE WILL BE TOUGH DECISIONS AHEAD.

>> POLICIES WERE UNDER THE MICROSCOPE ALREADY THIS YEAR IN THE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE CREATED BY THE LEGISLATURE.

>> HOW DOES SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPEN?

IT'S THE FIRST QUESTION FOR OUR INDIANA WE CAN REVIEW PANEL.

DEMOCRAT ELISE SCHROCK CZECH REPUBLIC AND MIKE O'BRIEN LINDSAY OR JODY EDITOR FOR EXCESS LOCAL AND NIKI KELLY EDITOR OF THE CAPITAL CHRONICLE.

I'M PUBLIC BROADCASTING BUREAU CHIEF BRANDON SMITH.

FOR THOSE OF US BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE WE NEVER EXPECTED TO BE DOWN TO THE PENDENCY AND THAT'S WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

$1 BILLION OFF?

>> HERE'S THE THING IT'S NOT A LOT OF MONEY.

THERE'S A REASON ZOOM OUT AND THINK THE LAST TEN MONTHS WHAT HAVE WE HEARD FROM LEADERSHIP?

JEFF THOMPSON TRAVIS HOLTMAN AND PEOPLE NOT TRADITIONALLY SPEAKING UP ON MEDICAID.

ROD BREAK COMES OUT OF THE LAST SESSION SAYING WHAT KEEPS YOU UP AT NIGHT MEDICAID.

THIS IS WHY YOU CAN MISS A LITTLE [OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS] >> TWO OR 3 PERCENT.

>> 1.5 AND TWO.

SO PUT IT IN CONTEXT, WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT $41 BILLION STATE BUDGET.

AND THAT IS NOT ACTUALLY THE CASE THAT'S TRUE OF STATE MONEY IF YOU COMBINE IN A MEDICAID PROGRAM STATE AND FEDERAL MONEY WE WILL SPEND $19.4 BILLION IN 2024 AND $20.6 BILLION IT WILL GO UP $1.2 BILLION IN ONE YEAR.

THAT'S WHY A GUY LIKE CHRIS JOHNSON SAYS WE HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO THIS.

THEY BRING BACK THE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE AND PUT IT AWAY FOR A FEW YEARS AND BRING IT BACK AND WHO IS IN CHARGE?

IT'S NOT THE CHAIRMAN OF THE HEALTH COMMITTEE IT'S THE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE BECAUSE THEIR UNDERSTANDING WE HAVE TO PIVOT BECAUSE THIS COULD SWALLOW THE BUDGET.

FORGET ABOUT K-12 EDUCATION ONLY GETTING AN EXTRA BILLION DOLLARS.

THINK ABOUT THE MEDICAID PROGRAM MISSING 5 PERCENT BECAUSE COST AND HEALTHCARE RISE, SO FAST.

SO THOSE OF US WHO PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO HOW THAT PROGRAM BECOMES MORE EXPENSIVE THE THE STATE HAS CONTROL OVER THE PLAN DESIGN OF THE MEDICAID PROGRAM BEYOND WHAT THE GOVERNMENT REQUIRES SO THERE IS LEGISLATION IN THE HEALTH COMMITTEE IS THAT NEED TO EXTEND COVERAGE TO THIS POPULATION OR THIS TYPE OF SERVICE OR WHERE THE SERVICES PROVIDED.

THAT IS DISCONNECTED FROM THE CONVERSATIONS ON THE FOURTH FLOOR OF THE STATE HOUSE WHICH IS MONEY.

SO WHAT THE SENATOR IS SAYING AND THIS IS WE HAVE TO CONNECT THE DOTS AND THE PEOPLE MAKING THESE DECISIONS THAT ARE DRIVING THESE COSTS OR WE WILL HAVE A STORY LIKE THIS EVERY YEAR WHERE MEDICAID SWALLOWED UP ANOTHER BILLION DOLLARS.

>> IN LIGHT OF THAT, IS THIS BEING SET UP FOR WE ARE GOING TO SEE SIGNIFICANT CUTS TO WHO CAN BE ON MEDICAID IN THE FUTURE?

>> I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THAT.

WE HAVE -- SURE CONSIDERING IT IS NOT AS BIG, BUT BIG ENOUGH TO WHERE WE HAVE TO DIP INTO OUR SURPLUS.

>> TWICE WHAT THE OVERAGES.

THEY SPENT THAT DOWN CONSIDERABLY.

>> THE SURPLUS IS NOT THERE TO BE DIPPED INTO FOUR ERRORS.

I HOPE.

>> NOT ONGOING.

>> I HOPE THIS DOES NOT THROW A LOT OF COLD WATER UNNECESSARY CONVERSATIONS TO BE HAD ABOUT REIMBURSEMENT.

>> WHICH HAS INCREASED 100 PERCENT -- >> BECAUSE THERE IS NEED.

THE NEED IS THERE.

IT STARTED WITH THE PANDEMIC, BUT THAT PULLED BACK THE CURTAIN ON AN EXISTING NEED AND WE ARE SEEING THAT SUSTAINED.

SO THIS WILL CONTINUE TO BE A CONVERSATION AND WE WILL HAVE TO LOOK CLOSER AND THAT SURPLUS MONEY WE CAN'T SET A PRECEDENT IT'S THERE FOR ERRORS.

IT'S THERE FOR ECONOMIC RELIEF.

>> THIS IS PART OF A LARGER HALF HEALTHCARE COSTS AND INDIANA REMAIN HIGHER THAN OTHER PLACES IN THE COUNTRY.

THIS IS PART OF THAT BECAUSE IF YOU SHRINK THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO CAN ACCESS MEDICAID, THEY ARE EITHER GOING TO HAVE TO FIND RADICALLY MORE -- >> YOU CAN'T.

>> HOLD ON MR. OTHER PEOPLE AT THE TABLE [CHUCKLING] BUT SOME PEOPLE CAN'T.

THEY ADMITTED THE AREA THIS WAS BIGGEST IN WAS HOME AND COMMUNITY-BASED CARE.

YOU CAN'T SHRINK IT FOR A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PEOPLE.

THERE ARE SOME WHO ARE ELDERL OR WHO HAVE TO HAVE THE COVERAGE.

DO THEY NEED [INAUDIBLE] WE WILL DO A MANAGED-CARE SITUATION THEY ARE TRYING TO MOVE INTO, BUT THAT WILL BE A FEW YEARS BEFORE WE SEE IF WE CAN SAVE ANY MONEY THROUGH THAT CONCEPT.

>> THE THOUGHT IS WE WILL, BUT WE ARE A FEW YEARS AWAY OF SEEING THE RESULTS OF THAT.

I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT GOING BACK TO MY FIRST QUESTION HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN WHICH IS WHAT WE HEARD AND THEY SEEM VERY HONEST AND WERE FORTHRIGHT AND SAID WE SCREWED UP IN THE HERE IS WHY THIS HAPPENED, BUT THEY DID NOT HAVE UP TO DATE INFORMATION, WHICH THEY SAID THAT WILL IMPROVE.

THE THING THAT STRIKES ME IS WHAT YOU POINTED OUT, THE BIG UNDERESTIMATE WAS IN HOME-BASED LONG-TERM CARE.

WHY DID WE NOT THINK WE WOULD -- THE POPULATION IS AGING.

WE ARE MOVING TOWARD MORE HOME-BASED CARE.

WHY WOULD THEY NOT ASSUME [INAUDIBLE] >> THAT'S MY QUESTION TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

IT FEELS LIKE WE SHOULD HAVE SEEN THIS COMING -- MAYBE NOT TO THAT EXTENT BUT IT FEELS LIKE WE COULD HAVE.

I THINK WE KIND OF HURT SENATOR MITCHELL OR IS UPSET ABOUT THIS -- RIGHTFULLY SO BECAUSE THE ESTIMATES SHOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER AND I'M CURIOUS TO SEE NEXT TIME WHEN THEY ARE WRITING THE NEXT BUDGET AND WE ARE GETTING ESTIMATES AGAIN IF THEY ARE LITTLE MORE CRITICAL ABOUT THE NUMBERS THEY ARE RECEIVING RATHER THAN ACCEPTING THE INFORMATION THEY ARE GETTING.

>> BEFORE WE MOVE ON I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT WHICH IS THE GREAT THING ABOUT THE REVENUE FORECAST THAT LAWMAKERS RELY ON IS IT'S A CONSENSUS BOTH PARTIES AND OUTSIDE PEOPLE COMING TOGETHER INTEGRATING THIS IS OUR BEST GUESS.

THEY KNOW NOT TO TAKE IT AS GOSPEL AND BUILD AND WIGGLE ROOM THERE BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT THE ECONOMY WILL DO.

LAWMAKERS HAVE A LOT OF CONFIDENCE IN THAT NUMBER.

WE THOUGHT THE SAME THING ABOUT THE MEDICAID FORECAST.

BUT WHEN THEY WRITE A NEW BUDGET A YEAR FROM NOW, ARE THEY GOING TO HAVE THAT SAME COMPETENCE?

>> I DOUBT IT, BUT FOR THE SAME REASON THE PEOPLE ARE INVOLVED IN THIS CONVERSATION ARE CHANGING.

WE ARE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT HOW TO EXTEND HEALTH CARE TO VULNERABLE POPULATIONS.

HOW DO WE PAY FOR AND PROTECT OTHER THINGS THAT SERVICE VULNERABLE POPULATIONS WITHIN THAT PROGRAM.

THEY WILL HAVE TO SHARPEN THE PENCIL ON IT AND DO WHAT THEY ARE DOING IN LONG-TERM CARE AND PIVOT TO MANAGED CARE ABOUT THOSE WILL BE HARD DECISIONS.

THOSE WILL BE LIMITATIONS ON CARE WHERE IT CAN BE PROVIDED AND THOSE TYPES OF THINGS BECAUSE THERE'S A PRACTICAL ELEMENT.

>> THIS WILL MAKE THEM LOOK AT A CULTURE OF REVERSION WHERE THEY HAS BEEN A HUGE EMPHASIS ON REVERTING MONEY BACK TO PAD THE SURPLUS AND THAT WAS CLEARLY A HUGE PART OF THE ERROR HERE.

SO I HOPE THAT IS ALSO PART OF THE CONVERSATION.

>> OR WILL BE HYPER CONVERGENCE [OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS] >> GOVERNOR ERIC HOLCOMB SAYS HE HOPES LAWMAKERS LEAVE CONTENTIOUS ISSUES FOR ANOTHER DAY AS HE HEADS INTO ITS FINAL LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

LEADERS HAVE PROMISED A QUIETER SESSION FOCUSED ON SMALLER CHANGES TO EXISTING POLICIES.

HOLCOMB SAYS HE UNDERSTANDS HOLDING OFF ON ANYTHING DRASTIC.

>> I HOPE THE WORD WOULD BE CONSTRUCTIVE SESSION THAT YIELDS PRODUCTIVITY.

>> HOLCOMB IS NOT REVEALING MANY DETAILS ABOUT HIS AGENDA BUT TALKING A BIG GAME PROMISING TO DO THINGS WE HAVE NEVER DONE BEFORE.

>> I THINK WE WILL HAVE AN UNPRECEDENTED IMPACT AND AFFECT ON OUR STATES FUTURE.

>> HOLCOMB PLANS TO UNVEIL HIS AGENDA ON THE SAME DAY THE SESSION BEGINS, JANUARY 8.

>> ELYSE, WILL LAWMAKERS MAKE A BIG IMPACT ON THE 2024 SESSION?

>> I'M SURE THEY WILL.

A LOT OF FOLKS ARE WAITING TO SEE IF IT'S A GOOD IMPACT OR BAD IMPACT.

A LOT OF COMMUNITIES THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAS TAKEN POT SHOTS AT OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS SO THEY ARE BRACING THEMSELVES AS I'M TALKING TO FOLKS IN THESE VARIOUS COMMUNITIES WAITING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS BUT I HOPE IT IS A GOOD IMPACT.

ONE THING THAT I HAVE BEEN HAPPY TO SEE IS A SHIFT IN MINDSET FROM REPUBLICANS.

DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT CHILDCARE FOR A LONG TIME.

READING THE TEA LEAVES I FEEL LIKE THAT IS GOING TO BE PART OF SOME OF THE AGENDA'S WE WILL SEE AGAIN THIS YEAR FROM REPUBLICANS AND THE GOVERNOR.

AND I THINK THERE IS A SHIFT IN MINDSET WHERE THEY ARE SEEING THIS AS INFRASTRUCTURE -- CHILDCARE AS INFRASTRUCTURE.

I'M HOPING THERE WILL BE A SUBSTANTIVE CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT.

I AM HOPING THAT IN A CAMPAIGN YEAR THERE WILL BE SOME DISCIPLINE SHOWN BY THIS LEGISLATURE BUT THOSE HOPES -- WE WILL SEE.

>> WE TALKED ABOUT THIS ON A PREVIOUS SHOW BUT JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE SMALL TWEAKS AS THE LEADERS HAVE SAID TO EXISTING ISSUES AND THINGS LIKE THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY CAN'T HAVE SIGNIFICANT IMPACTS ON PEOPLE IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

>> I THINK WE WILL SEE THAT HOUSE AND SENATE REPUBLICAN AGENDA EARLY NEXT WEEK AND PROBABLY MONDAY BILLS WILL START TO BECOME PUBLIC.

SPEAKERS INDICATED HE WANTS TO FOCUS RE- COMPREHENSION THIRD GRADE.

THERE ARE THINGS TO DO IN A TARGETED WAY AND WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE LAST CYCLES THE SHORT SESSION HAS BECOME A TESTING GROUND FOR THE NEXT LONG SESSION.

IT MAY PUT OUT A MAJOR ISSUE THAT PROBABLY IS NOT READY YET BUT YOU WANT TO SEE WHY IT IS NOT READY.

>> WHAT SUPPORT DO I HAVE FOR THE CONCEPT BEFORE YOU REALLY ZERO IN THE DETAILS.

YOU WILL HERE A LOT OF BIG CONVERSATIONS ON LARGER TICKET ITEMS INCLUDING EDUCATION AND OTHER THINGS.

LEADERSHIP HAS DONE ALL THEY CAN TO TEMPER EXPECTATIONS ON MAKING BIG MAKE MOVES ON MAJOR POLICIES.

>> EVEN THE IDEA OF GETTING MEMBERS USE TO AN ISSUE.

A LOT OF TIMES THE BIG REASON WHY BILLS AND ISSUES TAKE MULTIPLE SESSIONS AS LAWMAKERS DON'T WANT TO DO SOMETHING THE FIRST TIME THEY ARE EXPOSED TO IT.

>> IT'S A PROCESS.

>> [OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS] IT SHOULD BE, BUT NOT ALL WAS.

>> ERIC HOLCOMB SAYS HE HOPES LAWMAKERS LEAVE CONTENTIOUS ISSUE FOR ANOTHER DAY, WHICH WOULD BE WHEN HE'S NOT GOVERNOR ANYMORE.

IS THAT PIE-IN-THE-SKY TO YOU?

>> A LITTLE BIT.

TO HER POINT THAT IT IS AN ELECTION YEAR AND LAWMAKERS WANT TO HAVE SOMETHING TO BRAG ABOUT AND PUT IT IN ADS AND GO TO DOOR AND TELL CONSTITUENTS WHAT THEY DID IN SOME HOT TOPIC THAT THE CONSTITUENTS ARE RILED UP ABOUT AND HERE IS HOW THEY SOLVED IT.

BUT WE WILL SEE HOW MUCH CONTROL LEADERSHIP HAS OVER THE CAUCUS AND WHAT GETS HEARD.

YOU CAN FILE ANY BILL YOU WANT, BUT IT DOESN'T GET A COMMITTEE HEARING OR MOVE TO THE FLOOR -- WE WILL SEE.

>> WE HAVEN'T SEEN A CONTROVERSIAL SOCIAL ISSUE TAKE OVER A SESSION IN A WHILE.

THEY HAVE IN THE PAST.

MAYBE THE MOST EXTREME EXAMPLE OF THAT RFRA, BUT THERE WAS NO SHORTAGE OF CULTURE ISSUES AND WE WERE DOING SO MANY POLICY RELATED THINGS THAT IT DID NOT OCCUPY ALL THE OXYGEN IN THE ROOM IS THERE MORE OF A CHANCE.

>> THAT IS THE DANGER WHEN YOU SORT OF DO SMALLER TWEAKING IS THAT THERE IS SPACE LEFT FOR THESE THINGS TO KIND OF BLOW UP.

I THINK IT IS FAIR WE WILL NOT HAVE ANY BOLD OR TRANSFORMATIONAL CHANGE OUT OF THIS SESSION.

WE MIGHT SEE SOME SMALL TWEAKS AND CHANGES, BUT THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT SOMETHING COULD SORT OF FESTER UP FROM BELOW AND TAKE UP MORE ATTENTION BECAUSE WE ARE NOT DISTRACTED BY STUFF LIKE REDISTRICTING OR BUDGETS OR CUTTING TAXES AND ALL OF THOSE ARE OFF THE TABLE.

>> TIME NOW FOR VIEWER FEEDBACK.

EACH WEEK WE HAVE AN ONLINE POLL QUESTION AND THIS WEEKS QUESTION IS DO YOU EXPECT 2024 LEGISLATIVE SESSION TO BE QUIET AND UNCONTROVERSIAL?

YES OR NO.

LAST YEAR WE ASKED WHO WILL WIN INDIANA'S 2024 U.S. SENATE RACE.

49 PERCENT SAID REPUBLICANS AND 50 PERCENT SAID THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES ON 1 PERCENT SAID LIBERTARIAN.

TO TAKE PART IN THE POLL GO TO WFYI.ORG AND LOOK FOR THE POLL.

LOCAL OFFICIALS NEED FEWER RESTRICTIONS FROM THE STATE TO RUN THEIR MUNICIPALITY.

WE HAVE A REPORT.

>> TERRE HAUTE MAYOR WAS DEFEATED IN NOVEMBER'S GENERAL ELECTION BY DEMOCRATIC CHALLENGER BRANDON.

HE VISITED THE STATE CODE FREQUENTLY LOBBYING FUNDING FOR HIS FOUR TERMS AS MAYOR.

>> IF WE WOULD HAVE MORE FREEDOM TO SPEND THE DOLLARS LOCALLY.

THEY APPROVE OUR BUDGET SO THEY KNOW WHAT WE SPEND IT ON, BUT TO GIVE US MORE LOCAL FREEDOM.

>> SOMETIMES ALL MUNICIPALITIES ARE HURT WHEN LAWS ARE CHANGED TO DEAL WITH THE PROBLEM SOMEWHERE ELSE.

COLUMBUS MAYOR AGREES.

>> IF THE LEGISLATURE COULD BACK UP A LITTLE BIT AND SORT OF REREAD THE HOME RULE STATUTES THAT WE ARE ALL ADULTS DOWN HERE.

>> HE IS RETIRING FROM POLITICS AFTER SERVING TWO TERMS.

HE WAS SELECTED TO LEAD THE OFFICE OF COMMUNITY AND RURAL AFFAIRS.

>> NIKI KELLY THIS HAS BEEN A DEBATE AS LONG AS THE STATE HAS EXISTED I THINK BUT DOES THIS MATTER MORE NOW WHEN IT'S COMING FROM REPUBLICANS?

>> MAYBE A LITTLE, BUT THIS DEBATE IS ABOVE PARTISAN POLITICS.

THE WHOLE IDEA OF STATE CONTROL AND LOCAL CONTROL DEFINITELY EXCEEDS REPUBLICAN DEMOCRAT.

IT'S THE BASIC TENET OF ALL THE QUESTIONS.

I WILL SAY ONE THING THAT IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT IS WE HAVE SEEN MAY BE THE LAST 8-10 YEARS MORE FOCUS ABOUT COMPLETELY NULLIFYING THINGS THAT INDIANAPOLIS DOES, BUT SOMETIMES THEY DO THEM IN A WAY THAT AFFECTS ALL MUNICIPALITIES SO THAT I THINK MIGHT BE THE ONE LITTLE AREA THAT THEY SHOULD BE PAYING ATTENTION TO MORE.

I REALIZE THAT INDIANAPOLIS LAWMAKERS AND THE REPUBLICAN INDIANAPOLIS LAWMAKERS SEE DEMOCRATICS RUNNING THE CITY IN A WAY THEY DON'T LIKE AND SAY WE HAVE POWER TO CONTROL IT.

THEY HAVE TO REMEMBER POWER IMPACTS MORE THAN INDIANAPOLIS.

>> REALISTICALLY THE DEBATE WILL CONTINUE AND IS THE PROBLEM THAT ON SOME ISSUES THE PARTY IN CONTROL WHICH OBVIOUSLY IS REPUBLICANS IS LIKE LOCAL CONTROL IS BEST IN LOCAL CONTROL IS BEST.

THE GOVERNMENT CLOSEST TO THE PEOPLE'S BEST AND OTHER ISSUES STATE CONTROL IS BEST AND WE KNOW WHAT IS BEST.

IS THE PROBLEM IT IS NOT CONSISTENT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

LOCAL CONTROL IS BEST UNTIL WE DISAGREE WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING LOCALLY.

TO NIKI'S POINT THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY PARTISAN.

REPUBLICANS DISAGREE WITH EACH OTHER ALL THE TIME AND THERE COULD BE SOMETHING A REPUBLICAN MAYOR IS DOING THAT A STATE LAWMAKER DOES NOT LIKE.

I THINK WE HAVE SEEN ESPECIALLY -- WE'VE SEEN INDIANAPOLIS BE ATTACKED BY THE STATE HOUSE AND WE WILL SEE THAT AGAIN THIS YEAR BUT WE HAVE HEARD FROM HAMILTON COUNTY MAYORS WHO OUR REPUBLICAN WHO HAVE ISSUES WITH THIS DEBAE BACK AND FORTH AND IT HAS NOT CHANGED ANYTHING, SO I DON'T KNOW THAT TWO OTHER REPUBLICANS NOT FROM THE AREA SAYING SOMETHING IS GOING TO MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

>> WE MIGHT SEE THIS PLAY OUT IN 2024 ON DIFFERENT ISSUES.

HOUSING REMAINS -- I HEAR A LOT AT THE STATE LEVEL AND BUILDERS WHO SAY THE BIGGEST IMPEDIMENT TO HOUSING IS LOCAL ORDINANCES THAT RESTRICT WHAT WE ARE ALLOWED TO BUILD AND WHERE WE CAN BUILD IT AND THE STATE TRIED TO INCENTIVIZE THEM TO GET RID OF SOME OF THOSE BUT HAVE NOT ORDERED THEM TO DO THAT SO THAT REMAINS A PROBLEM.

WE HEAR FROM FOLKS THAT ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE NEED TO DIVERSIFY OUR ENERGY SOURCES SAYING LOCALS HAVE TO STOP SOLAR PROJECTS AND WIND PROJECTS FROM COMING TO THEIR COMMUNITIES.

ARE THOSE THE ISSUES THAT YOU SEE THIS LOCAL CONTROL DEBATE INTENSIFYING ON IN THE NEAR FUTURE?

>> THERE IS ALWAYS ONE OFF WHERE YOU DO NOT LIKE A THING A COMMUNITY IS DOING TO NIKI'S POINT SO YOU INTERVENE AND IT SLASHES ACROSS THE ENTIRE STATE.

THOSE ARE BIG EXAMPLES HOUSING AND ENERGY DEVELOPMENT.

THEY ARE DIFFERENT.

THERE ARE CREATIVE WAYS LOCAL GOVERNMENTS EVEN SOLAR OR WIND PROJECTS DO NOT COME INTO THE BOUNDARY OF THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE YOU TRY NOT TO LET THEM CONNECT TO THE GRID AND UNIQUE WAYS LOCAL GOVERNMENT IS TRYING TO CONTROL DEVELOPMENT LOCALLY EVEN IF IT IS OUTSIDE THE BOUNDARIES OF THE CITY.

SO WHATEVER THE LEGISLATURE INTERVENES IT TENDS TO BE BECAUSE A LOCAL UNIT IN THEIR MIND OVERREACHED AND THE REACTION IS THE STATEHOUSE AND ITS NONPARTISAN.

THE HOUSE DEMOCRATS INTERVENED IN A TIFF BETWEEN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THE MAYOR'S OFFICE.

IT WAS WIDE OPEN NOT EVEN IN PRIVATE.

SO THAT STUFF IS JUST HOW IT GOES.

IT'S NONPARTISAN AND WHATEVER TIER OF GOVERNMENT YOU ARE SERVING AND YOU ARE TRYING TO STEP ON THE ONE BELOW YOU WHEN MAD THE ONE ABOVE YOU ARE STEPPING ON YOU'VE.

>> TO NIKI'S POINT IT FEELS LIKE THERE IS THE OVERALL DEBATE ON A HOST OF DIFFERENT ISSUES AND THEN INDIANAPOLIS.

>> THERE IS A LIST TO MIKE'S POINT THERE WILL ALWAYS BE THAT TENSION WHERE THERE WILL BE TIMES WHEN WE NEED THE STATE TO COME IN AND HELP.

THAT TENSION IS THERE.

IT'S A PRECEDENT THIS LEGISLATURE HAS SET WITH A LOT OF THE INDIANAPOLIS SPECIFIC MEDDLING.

WE HAVE ALSO SEEN FOLKS WHO SAY THEY ARE STAUNCH CONSERVATIVE FILING BUILDS ON LIBRARIES AND SCHOOL BOARDS AND VERY, VERY LOCAL ISSUES SO IF IT IS -- I THINK MAYORS ARE LOOKING AT THAT THINKING THEY ARE RIGHT NEXT TO THEIR PEOPLE.

THEY DON'T ALWAYS HAVE THE POLITICAL BANDWIDTH TO BE AS UNWIELDY AS THE LEGISLATURE IS.

THEY DON'T HAVE THAT PROTECTION OF THE SUPER MAJORITY TO BE AS UNWIELDY.

SO I THINK MAYORS DO LOOK AT THE LEGISLATURE AND WANT THEM TO REFLECT THEIR DECISIONS.

>> GOVERNOR ERIC HOLCOMB SAYS THE SALE OF U.S.

STEAL TO A JAPANESE COMPANY REFLECTS THE NEED TO REMAIN COMPETITIVE IN A GLOBAL MARKETPLACE.

>> U.S.

STEAL HAS THREE FACILITIES IN INDIANAPOLIS INCLUDING THE LARGEST PLANT IN GERRY.

LAWMAKERS OF THE STATE AND FEDERAL LEVEL EXPRESS DISAPPOINTMENT IN THE SALE.

AND THE JAPANESE COMPANY IS ACCUSED OF HAVINGA HISTORY OF ON TRUST RE- TRADE ACTIONS OF EXPLOITING AMERICAN WORKERS.

THE SALE IS A REMINDER THAT AN ISOLATIONIST'S PERSPECTIVE DOES NOT WORK.

>> YOU HAVE TO COMPETE ON A GLOBAL STAGE TO STAY IN BUSINESS.

AND GROW.

>> HOLCOMB SAYS HE IS SHIFTING THROUGH THE DETAILS OF WHAT THE SALE WILL MEAN FOR CONTRACTS U.S. STEEL HAS IN PLACE WITH THE WORKERS UNION.

>> SHOULD WORKERS BE WORRIED?

>> WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE UNION THEY ARE CLEARLY UPSET ABOUT THE SALE AND DON'T WANT IT TO HAPPEN AND THEY ARE FRUSTRATED ON DIFFERENT LEVELS EVEN THOUGH THE COMPANY HAS SAID THEY WOULD HONOR THE EXISTING CONTRACT WHICH GOES UNTIL 2024 OR 2025.

ANY TIME THERE IS A STALE OF A COMPANY TO ANOTHER COMPANY PEOPLE ARE WORRIED.

AND THERE ARE LOTS OF EXAMPLES PEOPLE CAN POINT TO TO JUSTIFY THAT AND BAD THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED.

IT'S A LITTLE TOO SOON TO TELL.

WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, BUT I THINK A LITTLE BIT OF WORRY IS JUSTIFIED.

>> SOME OF THE FRUSTRATION WAS ALSO THAT THERE WAS THE POTENTIAL FOR A SALE TO ANOTHER U.S. COMPANY THAT OBVIOUSLY DID NOT HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY APPARENTLY GOT A BETTER OFFER FROM THE JAPANESE COMPANY.

IS THAT MAY BE SOME OF WHAT IS DRIVING NOT JUST A SALE FROM ONE COMPANY FROM AN AMERICAN BASED COMPANY TO A NON-AMERICAN BASED COMPANY.

>> THAT IS KIND OF LIFE IN THIS ECONOMY.

THIS GLOBAL ECONOMY NOW.

I GET THAT THEY ARE WORRIED, BUT THEY HAVE TO FOLLOW INDIANA ROLES ON STUFF LIKE OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

I THINK IT IS NATURAL FOR THEM TO BE WORRIED, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT WE SHOULD BE WORRIED ANYMORE BECAUSE IT'S A JAPANESE COMPANY.

>> SOME OF THE REACTION TO THIS FROM LAWMAKERS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL WAS NOT JUST WE ARE UPSET BECAUSE UNIONS ARE STRONG CONSTITUENTS OF OURS AND WE WANT TO PROTECT THOSE JOBS.

THAT'S A BIG PART OF THIS BUT SOME OF IT I SAW WAS A NATIONAL SECURITY FOCUS THAT STEEL IS ABOUT NATIONAL SECURITY IS MUCH AS ANYTHING ELSE.

COULD THAT INTERFERE WITH THIS DEAL GOING THROUGH.

IS THAT NECESSARILY A GOOD THING?

>> I'M NOT SURE IT WILL INTERFERE.

THE POSITIONING THAT WE ARE SEEING IS BECAUSE TO YOUR POINT LINDSAY, THE EXISTING CONTRACT THROUGH 24-25 IS NOT THAT FAR AWAY SO YOU NEED TO POSITION YOURSELF TO NEGOTIATE AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE COMING IN WITH A STRONG STANCE SO PEOPLE WILL MEET YOU FURTHER.

THAT COULD BE A LITTLE BIT OF SOME POSTURING THERE TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE UNION JOBS AND CONTRACTS THAT ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO THAT REGION OF THE STATE ARE STRONGLY CONSIDERED.

>> FINALLY, INDIANAPOLIS CIRCLE CENTER MALL MAY UNDERGO A COMPLETE OVERHAUL WITH THE DEVELOPER AGREEING TO ACQUIRE IT AND GOT THE MALL TURNING IT INTO A PROJECT THAT IS HOUSING OFFICES ENTERTAINMENT AND RETAIL SPACES.

IS THIS GOOD FOR INDIANAPOLIS?

>> WHAT WE HAVE NOW IS A LARGE PIECE OF DOWNTOWN THAT IS NOT UTILIZED TO ITS FULLEST FUNCTION.

SO TO SEE THAT RE- ENVISIONED THEN REIMAGINED IN A WAY THAT WILL BRING MORE PEOPLE DOWNTOWN I THINK WILL BE GREAT.

>> WHERE WILL SO MANY STATE EMPLOYEES GET LUNCH?

>> RIGHT NOW THEY GO NOWHERE.

[LAUGHING] >> A NICE WAY TO CHARACTERIZE THE MALL IS GUTTED -- THEY WERE STRUGGLING BEFORE COVID SO THIS IS A TRANSFORMATIONAL PROJECT FOR DOWNTOWN.

>> AS SOMEONE WHO WORKS NEAR DOWNTOWN IS THIS EXCITING?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I CAN'T WAIT.

NOW -- MALLS ARE OUT SO IT'S TIME TO RE- ENVISION IT.

>> IT LOOKS LIKE A GRAND GOAL.

WILL IT COME TO REALIZATION?

>> WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME WE'VE HEARD ABOUT A CIRCLE CENTER MALL REDEVELOPMENT PROJECTS I'M CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC [OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS] >> THAT IS INDIANA WE CAN REVIEW FOR THIS WEEK.

THE PANEL IS DEMOCRAT ELISE SCHROCK, REPUBLICAN MIKE O'BRIEN, LINDSAY OR DODI OF EXCESS LOCAL AND NIKI KELLY OF THE CAPITAL CHRONICLE.

YOU CAN FIND OUR PODCAST AND EPISODES AT WFYI.ORG/I WI OUR.

I'M BRANDON SMITH OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING.

JOIN US NEXT TIME BECAUSE A LOT CAN HAPPEN IN AN INDIANA WEEK.

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