[♪♪] >> Renee: GOOD EVENING WELCOME TO "KENTUCKY TONIGHT".

I'M REN.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

OUR TOPIC IS HIGHER EDUCATION IN KENTUCKY.

WE'LL DISCUSS A WIDE RANGE OF TOPICS AFFECTING COLLEGES AND COLLEGE STUDENTS IN THE STATE INCLUDING WHAT IS AND ISN'T WORKING MORE THAN 25 YEARS AFTER HIGHER-ED REFORM IN KENTUCKY.

ENROLLMENT UP AT SOME INSTITUTIONS AND DOWN AT OTHERS.

COSTS, STATE EDUCATION FUNDING, COVID'S IMPACT ON COLLEGES A U.S. SUPREME COURT DECISION ON RACE BASED ADMISSIONS AND MORE.

OUR GUESTS ALL IN OUR LEXINGTON STUDIO ARE STATE SENATOR DAVID GIVENS A REPUBLICAN FROM GREENSBURG AND SENATE PRESIDENT PRO-TEM.

AND DAVID MCFADDIN PRESIDENT OF EASTERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY.

BOB JACKSON PROCESS OF MURRAY STATE UNIVERSITY.

MASON DYER PRESIDENT OF INDEPENDENT KENTUCKY COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES AND AARON THOMPSON COUNCIL ON POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION.

PLEASE SEND US YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS YOU CAN SEND AN E-MAIL TO... OR USE THE WEB FORM AT... OR YOU CAN GIVE US A CALL AT...

WELCOME TO ALL OF YOUR GUESTS.

WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE.

BEFORE WE GET TO OUR DISCUSSION WE FOUND OUT ABOUT THE PASSING OF FORMER GOVERNOR BRERETON JONES.

GOVERNOR JONES WAS A DEMOCRAT WHO SERVED FROM 1991-1995 AS GOVERNOR.

HE BEEN LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR BEFORE THAT.

HE WAS THE FOUNDER OF STUD FARM IN WOODFORD COUNTY.

FUNERAL PLANS HAVE NOT BEEN ANNOUNCED BUT MORE ABOUT GOVERNOR JONES' PASSING TOMORROW ON KENTUCKY EDITION AT 6:30 EASTERN.

Mr.

GOVERNOR BRERETON JONES WAS 84.

BEFORE WE GET TO A HIGHER-ED DISCUSSION I KNOW I WANT TO CALL YOU SENATOR JACKSON NOW FORMER STATE SENATOR AND NOW PRESIDENT OF MURRAY STATE UNIVERSITY BOB JACKSON.

YOU HAVE FOND MEMORIES OF THE LATE GOVERNOR BRERETON JONES.

>> RENEE, I DO.

GOVERNOR JONES WAS A WONDERFUL PERSON.

HE WAS AN EXCELLENT GOVERNOR.

HE WORKED VERY HARD HE LOVED THE COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY HE LOVED CENTRAL KENTUCKY AND HORSE COUNTRY AND DID A LOT OF GOOD THINGS WHILE HE WAS IN OFFICE AND HE WILL BE MISSED OUR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS ARE WITH THE FAMILY.

AND I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH HIM VERY CLOSELY FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

AND NOT A FINER PERSON.

WE'RE GOING TO MISS GOVERNOR JONES.

>> Renee: AND I KNOW THAT THERE WILL BE CONDOLENCES COMING IN SENATE PRESIDENT PRO-TEM DAVID GIVENS THEY ARE COMING IN FROM OTHER COLLEAGUES IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND I KNOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO TAKE A MOMENT.

>> CERTAINLY WILL BE COMING IN.

I DID NOT HAVE THE HONOR OF SERVING WITH HIM BUT HELD HIM IN HIGH REGARD AS DID MY COLLEAGUES AND ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT DID SERVE WITH HIM.

THE STORIES AS YOU INDICATED PRESIDENT JACKSON ARE SO MANY AND SO HEARTFELT AND WARM.

REGARDLESS OF PARTY WHEN SOMEONE DEDICATES THEIR LIFE TO LEADING IN A PUBLIC SENSE AS HE DID, YOU'VE GOT TO ADMIRE AND APPRECIATE THE WORK THEY'VE DID AND IT'S HEARTFELT THAT WE OFFER CONDOLENCES TO THE FAMILY.

>> Renee: AND WE OFFER OUR CONDOLENCES AND THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS TO MRS. LIBBY JONES THE WIFE OF THE LATE GOVERNOR AND THEIR FAMILY.

AND THERE WILL BE MORE TO BE RELEASED ABOUT FUNERAL ARRANGEMENTS AND PERHAPS A CAPITOL SERVICE AND WE WILL BE THERE IF ALL OF THAT DOES UNFOLD.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRIVILEGE OF THAT TIME.

LET'S TALK ABOUT HIGHER-ED NOW.

25 YEARS AFTER REFORM, I WILL COME TO YOU Dr. THOMPSON, THE BIG QUESTION 25 PLUS YEARS LATER WHAT IS REALLY WORKING AND WHAT'S NOT WORKING?

>> THANK YOU, RENEE.

I WANT TO START POST-SECONDARY REFORM IT GAVE US A CHARGE MY OFFICE WAS CREATED AND SO WAS THE KENTUCKY COUNCIL ON POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION IN ADDITION TO THE KENTUCKY COMMUNITY AND TECHNICAL COLLEGE SYSTEM AND WE WERE CHARGED WITH GETTING OUR POPULATION TO THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

AND IT TOOK US A WHILE TO GET THERE.

BUT I'M PROUD TO SAY WHAT'S WORKING IS OVER THE LAST MANY YEARS OUR COMPLETIONS ARE UP TREMENDOUSLY.

WE'RE CLOSING GAPS AS FAST OR FASTER THAN ANY OTHER STATE.

WE ARE NUMBER TWO IN THE COUNTRY IN COMPLETIONS.

WE ARE WORKING WITH EMPLOYERS MORE OFTEN THAN WE'VE WORKED WITH THEM ON THE FRONT END VERSUS THE BACK END AND I WILL HAVE TO TELL YOU MY COLLEAGUES WE'RE WORKING CLOSER TOGETHER THAN WE'VE EVER LOOKED TO LOOK AT WHAT IS GOOD FOR THE STATE.

WE'RE WORKING WITH THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY TO IN THIS LAST TIME WE GOT ONE OF THE BIGGEST AMOUNT OF MONEY AND FUNDING TO POST SECOND PUBLIC ED THAT WE'VE EVER RECEIVED.

WE'RE HOPING TO GO THERE AGAIN THIS YEAR.

BUT THE POINT BEING IS THAT WE'RE FOCUSED ON WHAT'S GOOD FOR THIS ECONOMY.

WE HAVE A GOAL OF 60 BY 30.

AND 60% OF ALL OF OUR CITIZENS IN KENTUCKY NEEDS TO HAVE THAT POST-SECONDARY CREDENTIAL THAT MATTERS TO BUILD THE WORKFORCE AND CONTINUING TO BUILD THE ECONOMY PROUD TO SAY WE'RE AT 55%.

>> Renee: AND THAT'S BY THE YEAR 2030.

>> YES, MA'AM.

SO THAT'S WORKING.

WHAT'S NOT WORKING?

WE STILL HAVE TO DO BETTER IN OUR FINANCIAL OVERSIGHT.

STILL DO BETTER IN LOOKING AT HOW WE'RE SERVING OUR ADULT POPULATION.

WE HAVE TO DO BETTER IN SERVING OUR LOW INCOME POPULATIONS.

THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON.

AND WE ALSO HAVE TO FOCUS ON A STRONGER STRATEGIC PROCESS WITH OUR P12 COUNTTER PARTS BECAUSE WE ONLY HAVE 47.8% OF ALL OF OUR STUDENTS GRADUATING FROM HIGH SCHOOL GOING TO A KENTUCKY COLLEGE.

WE CAN'T CONTINUE TO BUILD UNLESS WE GET THAT PERCENT HIGHER.

WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON TEACHER RECRUIT: WE'VE GOT TO REVAMP TEACHER ED.

WE HAVE TO LOOK AT OUR PROGRAMS THAT ARE PREPARED FOR TOMORROW MORE THAN WE'VE EVER LOOKED AT AND WE'RE WORKING ON THAT BUT WE CAN DO BETTER.

THERE ARE THINGS WE RECOGNIZE THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE BETTER.

WE NEED A BETTER SYSTEMIC PROCESS FOR TRANSFER.

AND WE NEED TO WORK CLOSELY WITH ONCE AGAIN WITH OUR EMPLOYERS TO MAKE SURE WE GET THOSE TECHNICAL PROGRAMS FOR A JUST IN TIME SORT OF WORK ENVIRONMENT.

SO WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO RECOGNIZE WHAT WE'VE DONE WELL AND CELEBRATE A LITTLE BIT BUT WE ALSO HAVE CREATED A CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT PROCESS IN OUR STRATEGIC AGENDA AND THE CAMPUS PLANS TO REALLY WORK ON THE HOLES THAT WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY.

>> Renee: Mr. DYER, GOOD TO HAVE YOU FOR THE FIRST TIME.

TALK ABOUT WHAT ARE THE UNIQUE CHALLENGES OR ISSUES THAT ARE FACING THE INDEPENDENT COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES IN THE STATE?

>> SURE, THANKS.

IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE.

SO ENROLLMENT NATIONALLY IS A CHALLENGE FOR INDEPENDENT COLLEGES.

THE PERCEPTION OF COST IS A REAL STUMBLING BLOCK FOR A LOT OF FOLKS AND WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT THERE IS A LOT OF FINANCIAL AID OUT THERE AND AVAILABLE ONCE YOU FILL OUT THE FAST PHENOMENA AND GO THROUGH THE PROCESS.

HERE IN KENTUCKY ALONE A FULL PELL STUDENT WHO QUALIFIES FOR THE PELL GRANT WOULD QUALIFY FOR THE FULL CAPPA TENDING A PRIVATE COLLEGE KTG THAT IS ALMOST $16,000 IN AID RIGHT OFF THE TOP.

AND MANY OF OUR INSTITUTIONS WILL GO AHEAD AND FILL THE REST OF THAT GAP IN INSTITUTIONAL AID SO THEY ARE NOT PAYING ANY TUITION AT LEAST.

BUT OVERALL, OUR MEMBERS ARE STRONG.

THERE ARE CHALLENGES IN CERTAIN AREAS.

WE'RE SEEING CHALLENGES IN WORKFORCE.

IT'S HARD PARTICULARLY AND THOSE CHANGE WHETHER YOU ARE IN A RURAL LOCATION WE HAVE A LOT OF CAMPUSES LOCATED IN RURAL PARTS OF THE STATE WHERE THEY ARE DOING GOOD WORK BUT IT MIGHT BE HARD TO FIND THE PERSON TO COME IN AND SERVE IN A KEY ROLE.

THOSE ARE SOME OF THE CHALLENGES BUT OVERALL OUR FRESHMEN ENROLLMENT IS UP ABOUT 3% OVERALL.

SO THINGS ARE LOOKING GOOD.

MY PRESIDENTS TELL ME THERE IS A LOT OF ENERGY ON CAMPUS AND THINGS ARE MUCH MORE NORMAL EVEN THAN LAST YEAR.

>> Renee: WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE ISSUES RELATED TO THE COVID AND TRANSITION ISSUES THAT PUBLIC AND PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS ARE DEALING WITH THAT ARE NOT UNIQUE.

Dr. JACKSON AND ASK YOU SIR ABOUT MURRAY STATE UNIVERSITY.

WHAT IS YOUR ENROLLMENT LOOKING LIKE U.K. HAS RECORD ENROLLMENT WE HEAR ABOUT THAT I'M CURIOUS IF THAT IS THE EXPERIENCE OF THE REGIONAL UNIVERSITIES?

>> IT IS FOR MOST OF US.

MURRAY STATE UNIVERSITY, WE HAVE A HISTORIC FRESHMEN CLASS THE LARGEST IN OUR 101 YEAR HISTORY UP 22% OVER LAST YEAR AND WE'RE PROUD OF THAT.

AND THAT IS A CREDIT TO OUR FACULTY AND STAFF AND STUDENTS AND HARD WORKOUT RECRUITING ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH.

OUR OVERALL ENROLLMENT WILL BE THE HIGHEST IN FIVE OR SIX YEARS WE'RE PLEASED WITH THAT.

SO NOW WE TURN AROUND AND WE START RECRUITING FOR NEXT FALL AND RENEE, WE ALSO WORKED IN RETENTION.

SO HOW DO WE ENHANCE RETENTION KEEPING THE STUDENTS WE BROUGHT INTO OUR SYSTEM.

THERE'S TOO MANY STUDENTS NOT GOING TO A COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY.

IN KENTUCKY IT'S ABOUT 50%.

Dr. THOMPSON CAN CORRECT ME ON ANYTHING I SAY.

IT'S ABOUT 50%.

AND IT'S DECLINED FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS THIS ENROLLMENT CHALLENGE IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR ALL OF US.

NATIONALLY, THERE'S ABOUT 1.4 MILLION LESS COLLEGE GOING STUDENTS THAN IN 2020.

TODAY.

VERSUS 2020.

SO THAT CHALLENGE WHETHER ARE YOU AN INDEPENDENT, PRIVATE INSTITUTION OR A PUBLIC INSTITUTION, A LARGE FLAGSHIP INSTITUTION WE'RE ALL FACING THIS CHALLENGE.

AND IT'S NOT GOING TO END ANYTIME SOON.

SO WE'RE VERY PLEASED WITH WHERE WE ARE.

AND ALL OF US HAVE A THE OF WORK TO DO.

AND ONE LAST THING IN REGARD TO THIS I'VE TALKED EVERYONE HERE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC.

IS FAFSA, THE FINANCIAL AID FEDERAL FORM COMPLETION.

AND IN KENTUCKY I BELIEVE WE NEED TO REQUIRE THAT.

IN HIGH SCHOOLS.

THERE'S TOO MANY DOLLARS LEFT ON THE TABLE IN KENTUCKY.

$53 MILLION LAST YEAR.

NATIONALLY ABOUT 2.75 BILLION DOLLARS LEFT ON THE TABLE.

THIS WOULD HELP COLLEGE GOING RATES AND HELP OUR ENROLLMENT AT EVERY INSTITUTION NO MATTER THE TYPE AND THIS IS THE CHALLENGES THAT FACE US.

IT IS A POLICY DECISION.

AND SOONER GIVENS WILL BE IN THE MIDDLE OF IT AND WE WILL HAVE MORE DISCUSSIONS WITH Dr. THOMPSON AND Dr. McFAD INAND OTHERS.

>> WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN JUST A MOMENT.

SENATOR ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY CAN COMPEL AND IF THERE IS A TEMPERATURE TO DO SO.

GIVE US THE PICTURE OF EASTERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY.

>> WE'VE HAD AN AMAZING THREE-YEAR RUN OF ENROLLMENT GROWTH.

THIS FALL WE WELCOMED THE SECOND LARGEST FRESHMEN CLASS IN UNIVERSITY HISTORY.

CELEBRATING 80% RETENTION RATE THE HIGHEST IN UNIVERSITY HISTORY.

AND SO A LOT OF THINGS MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

I THINK FOR US A COUPLE THINGS THAT JUMP OUT ARE PROGRAMS.

FROM OUR AVIATION PROGRAM WHICH IS AT AAN ALL-TIME HIGH FOR ENROLLMENT THE ONLY FLIGHT SCHOOL IN THE STATE TO LAUNCHING MANUFACTURING ENGINEERING TO EMBRACING OPTION 9 IN OUR EDUCATION, OUR EDUCATION ENROLLMENTS ARE STRONG THIS FALL.

SEEING THAT GROWTH IS ENCOURAGING.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT JUMPED OUT AT ME ABOUT THIS FRESHMEN CLASS IS THAT 50% OF OUR FRESHMEN ARE THE FIRST IN THEIR FAMILY TO GO TO COLLEGE.

THAT NUMBER HAD BEEN IN THE 34, 38 RANGE FOR A WHILE AT EASTERN AND WE ARE A SCHOOL KNOWN FOR SERVING FIRST GENERATION STUDENTS.

BUT TO SEE A FRESHMEN CLASS WITH THAT MANY FIRST GENERATION STUDENTS IS ENCOURAGING WE'RE GETTING THAT MESSAGE OUT THERE THAT COLLEGE IS POSSIBLE.

AND I WILL SAY THAT ENROLLMENT GROWTH WE'VE SEEN WHICH IS NEARLY 4.5% UP YEAR-OVER-YEAR IS INVOLVING TRANSFER STUDENTS ADULT LEARNERS.

WE'RE BRINGING MORE STUDENTS TO THE INSTITUTION OTHER THAN THE FIRST TIME FULL-TIME FRESHMEN.

BUT I KNOW Dr. JACKSON, Dr. THOMPSON SO MANY OF US ARE WORKING TOGETHER TO TRY TO TALK ABOUT THAT VALUE PROPOSITION FOR HIGHER EDUCATION AND WHAT IT CAN MEAN FOR A STUDENT NOT JUST TODAY, NOT JUST TOMORROW BUT FOR A LIFETIME OF LEARNING AND FOR A LIFETIME OF EARNING IN THEIR SECTOR.

>> Renee: SENATOR, TO GET TO THAT QUESTION ABOUT COST, TUITION AND COMPELLING STUDENTS TO FILL OUT THE FAFSA, WHAT DOES THE SENATE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS THINK ABOUT THAT?

>> IT'S GREAT TO BE ON THE SHOW AND THANK YOU TO KET TO TALK ABOUT THIS TOPIC.

LIKE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION AND BACK UP FOR JUST A MOMENT AND GO TO SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN ECHOED AROUND THE TABLE AND THE WAY YOU ASK THE QUESTION.

THE PERCEIVED COST.

THERE IS A TRUE MISALIGNMENT OF WHAT FAMILIES AND STUDENTS THINK IT COSTS VERSUS WHAT IT ACTUALLY DOES DOES.

$54 MILLION WAS THE NUMBER.

OF FEDERAL FINANCIAL AID IS LEFT ON THE TABLE EVERY YEAR BY KENTUCKY FAMILIES.

TO HELP A FAMILY GET THAT FIRST GENERATION STUDENT ACROSS THE FINISH LINE.

IT IS A PERCEIVED COST AND WHEN WE DO GO AND LOOK AT THE RETURN ON THE INVESTMENT OVER THE LIFETIME OF AN EARNER IT IS SIGNIFICANT.

IF THERE ARE TWO KEY TAKEAWAYS FROM YOUR PROGRAM TONIGHT, FAMILIES NEED TO PURSUE EVERY OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE THE COST CAN BE MINIMIZED IN WAYS THAT ARE VERY BENEFICIAL TO OFFSETTING ANY TUITION COST AND ROOM AND BOARD COSTS.

SO NUMBER ONE IF YOU'VE GOT A STUDENT IN YOUR HOME OR IN YOUR FAMILY THAT WANTS TO GO TO COLLEGE, THE MEN AND WOMEN IN POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION WANT TO HELP MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

LET'S WORK TOGETHER TO GET THAT DONE.

SPECIFIC TO YOUR QUESTION ON THE FAFSA COMPLETION WE'VE HAD ROBUST CONVERSATIONS ABOUT DO WE WANT TO REQUIRE THAT AS A HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION COMPONENT?

SOME HAVE SAID LET'S REQUIRE IT AND HAVE THE FAMILY OPT-OUT.

I'M TOLD THE COMPLEXITY IS CHANGING AS A RESULT OF CHANGES THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS MAKING BUT CHANGING SOMETHING AS COMPLEX AS THAT WAS IT'S GOING TO BE HARD FOR SOME FAMILIES TO DO IT.

SHOULD WE ROLL IT IN AS PART OF A COUNTABILITY SCORE FOR A SCHOOL DISTRICT, THUS INCENTING THE SCHOOL DISTRICT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO SCORE HIGHER AND HAVE FAMILIES APPRECIATE THE DELIVERY OF THEIR WORK PRODUCT MAYBE THAT IS THE MECHANISM WITHOUT MAKING IT A REQUIREMENT FOR HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION.

BUT I WANT TO END MY OPENING REMARKS BY THE SECOND PART OF WHAT I WANT TO BE A KEY TAKEAWAY.

MY INTERACTION WITH POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION OVER THE YEARS I'M SO PROUD WHAT WE HAVE IN KENTUCKY AND THE MEN AND WOMEN THAT LEAD THESE INSTITUTIONS THAT STAFF THESE UNIVERSITIES BE THEY PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, THE TEACHERS IN THE CLASSROOM ARE SHAPING THESE KIDS LIVES IN SUCH A WAY IT HAS A POSITIVE IMPACT.

WHEN A YOUNG PERSON'S LIFE IS SEARCHING FOR RELEVANT, PURPOSE AND MEANING THESE INSTITUTIONS DO IT SO ADMIRABLELY AND SKILLFULLY.

ALL KENTUCKIANS SHOULD BE PROUD OF THE INVESTMENTS WE MAKE IN POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION.

>> Renee: AND THE QUESTION ABOUT THE INVESTMENTS IS THE ASSEMBLY WILLING TO MAKE MORE INVESTMENTS IN THE 2024 BUDGET SESSION THAT IS UP COMING?

>> I CERTAINLY DO THINK YOU WILL SEE US WILLING AND OPEN TO THAT CONVERSATION.

IT'S ALL GOING TO BE A FUNCTION OF OTHER COSTS AND NEEDS OTHER REVENUES.

CAN WE BEST SPEND THAT MONEY HELPING THESE FINE INSTITUTIONS?

MAYBE SO.

CAN WE BEST HELP SPEND THE MONEY DISCOVER STUDENTS WALKING IN AS FRESHMEN THAT ARE BETTER PREPARED THAN EVER WITH A HIGH NUMBER OF DUAL CREDITS UNDER THEIR BELT AND OR THEYMY TRICK LATE IN THE SYSTEM AND GOTTEN THE LOST COST CREDIT HOURS TO LOWER THE COST FURTHER.

THERE'S LOTS OF PIECES TO THE PUZZLE.

>> Renee: HOW MUCH DOES HIGHER EDUCATION CONSUME OF THE BUDGET?

>> IT'S OVER A BILLION DOLLARS OF $15 BILLION ANNUAL SPEND.

>> Renee: AND HAS THAT Dr. THOMPSON I WILL ASK YOU IS THAT BETTER THAN PRERECESSIONARY LEVELS?

>> NO.

IT'S NOT BETTER YET.

BUT IT'S MOVING TOWARD THAT DIRECTION.

THE PRERECESSION IT WAS 1.1, 1.2 BUT WE ARE MOVING TOWARD THAT.

AND THE OTHER PART I WILL SAY ALONG THOSE LINES WE HAVE A NEW FORMULA.

WE HAVE AN ACCOUNTABILITY SYSTEM WITH US NOW WITH THE PERFORMANCE FUNDING MODEL.

AND SOME OF THE ITEMS THAT WE'RE CONCENTRATING ON CLEARLY HELPS THE STATE GET WHERE THEY NEED TO GO.

WE KNOW IT IS A BETTER INVESTMENT IF YOU INVEST IN HIGHER-ED FOR EVERY CONTRACTOR THE STATE PUTS IN THEY GET A $69 RETURN.

IF YOU DON'T INVEST IN HIGHER EDUCATION, ARGUABLY, SO LOOK AT THE DATA.

YOU WILL HAVE MORE PEOPLE LOCATED IN PLACES THAT COST YOU MONEY.

WHETHER IT'S MEDICAID, PRISONS OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAYBE.

WE ARGUE AND WE WORK WELL WITH THE ASSEMBLY AROUND THIS ARGUMENT THAT IT'S BETTER TO INVEST IN HIGHER EDUCATION AND GET THAT RETURN ON KENTUCKY'S ECONOMY WITH THE TAX DOLLARS ET CETERA AND THESE INSTITUTIONS ARE BIG ECONOMIC ENGINES THEMSELVES.

RIGHT?

THAN IT WOULD BE TO INVEST POSSIBLY IN SOMETHING THAT ENDS UP CONTINUALLY COSTING YOU MONEY.

>> Renee: AND SO THE PEOPLE ARE OFTEN ASKING ABOUT THE COST OF TUITION AND HOW MUCH MORE IT COSTS THAN PERHAPS IT DID WHEN I WAS AN UNDERGRADUATE STUDENT.

WHY IS IT SO MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE AND IS THERE A CAUSE INDICATION AGAINST GENERAL FUND APPROPRIATIONS AND THE RISE OF TUITION?

>> WELL, THERE IS.

FIRST OF ALL, TUITION IS MORE NOW THAN IT HAD BEEN IN THE PAST.

I WANT TO SAY IN THE LAST SIX YEARS OUR TUITION HAS BEEN UNDER THE INFLATIONARY MARK UNDER 2%.

WE'RE PROUD AND WE WANT TO CALL THAT TO EVERYBODY'S ATTENTION.

BUT FOR EVERY STATE DOLLAR THEY GET OUR CAMPUSES ARE ALSO GIVING MORE INSTITUTIONAL AID THAN THEY GET IN FEDERAL AID AND STATE AID.

FOR EVERY STATE DOLLAR YOU ARE USING THAT FULL STATE DOLLAR TO GIVE TO THE STUDENT.

FOR A TUITION DOLLAR YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY THEN TAKE FROM THAT TUITION DOLLAR THAT THE FAMILIES ARE PAYING YOU'RE ONLY GETTING 70 CENTS WORTH FROM THAT DOLLAR.

SO THE STATE DOLLAR IS ACTUALLY FAR MORE VALUABLE TO THE ROUNDING OF INSTITUTIONS.

I WANT TO STATE THIS TOO, IF YOU LOOK AT ALL THE DOLLARS IN HIGHER-ED 25% ARE COMING THROUGH FINANCIAL AID.

NOT WHAT IT ONCE WAS USED TO BE A MUCH LOWER PERCENT WITH MORE BEING DIRECTLY APPROPRIATED TO CAMPUSES.

THE ARGUMENT IS NOT NECESSARILY TAKE AWAY FROM THAT, PROBABLY TALK ABOUT THE LOTTERY TRUST FUND GROUP HERE IN A SECOND.

BUT MY ARGUMENT IS THAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT HOW THE STRATEGICALLY AND THAT IS WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING, STRATEGICALLY INVEST IN HIGHER-ED TO GET THE RETURN THAT WE OBVIOUSLY KNOW THAT WE CAN GET.

>> Renee: LEADER NEAL THANK YOU FOR BEING US WITH, A DEMOCRATIC LEADER IN THE STATE SENATE FROM LOUISVILLE WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING WITH US TONIGHT.

WE BEGAN THE PROGRAM TALKING ABOUT THE LATE GOVERNOR BRERETON JONES WHO PASSED AWAY TODAY AND YOU SERVED WITH HIM.

IF YOU WANT TO SHARE THOUGHTS THERE BEFORE I ASK YOU A COUPLE OF HIGHER-ED QUESTIONS I WILL YIELD TO YOU FOR THAT.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

DELIGHTED TO BE HERE AMONGST MY LEARNED COLLEAGUES.

AND OUR LEADER IN THE SENATE.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU, MAN.

>> ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

BRERETON JONES WAS I WILL CONSIDER HIM A FRIEND.

WE INTERACTED ON MANY LEVELS.

[AUDIO INTERRUPTION] VERY MUCH INVOLVED AND INVESTED AND IT'S SHOCKING TO ME AS SOMETHING NEVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED AND JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT IT A FEW YEARS AGO.

BUT HE WILL BE MISSED OF.

>> Renee: SO TO THE CONVERSATION AT HAND ABOUT HIGHER EDUCATION, I ASKED Dr. THOMPSON AT THE BEGINNING WHAT IS WORKING AND WHAT IS NOT WORKING AND WE WON'T REVISIT ALL OF THAT.

BUT I'VE HEARD YOU SAY ON THE SENATE FLOOR ABOUT THE COMMITMENT THAT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS MAKING OR NOT MAKING WHEN IT COMES TO HIGHER EDUCATION FUNDING.

CAN YOU SHARE THOSE THOUGHTS WITH US?

>> MY PRIMARY CONCERN IS REGARDING THE LOW INCOME STUDENTS.

AND HOW THEY FARE.

AND I THINK IT'S NOT SUFFICIENT SUPPORT ON THAT LEVEL NOT WITHSTANDING COMMENTS MADE HERE.

AND LET ME PREFACE MY REMARKS BY SAYING WE'VE MADE GREAT STRIDES.

THERE'S REALLY GOOD STUFF HAS HAPPENED.

SOME VERY GOOD DECISIONS HAVE BEEN MADE BUT THERE ARE HOLES IN THE SYSTEM.

FROM MY PERSPECTIVE AND I WORRY ABOUT THE PUSHBACK IN TERMS OF ECONOMIC PIECE IN THE ATTAINMENT OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND SOME DON'T COME DOWN THAT ROUTE BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO ACHIEVE THAT.

BUT I ALSO THINK THAT IF WE I KNOW THEY ARE STREAMLINING THE SYSTEM IN TERMS OF THIS INFORMATION I THINK THAT IS GOING TO BE HELPFUL GOING FORWARD.

AND I'M HOPEFUL THAT WE'LL DO SOME BE MORE AGGRESSIVE.

MY NUMBERS I HEAR WHAT IS BEING SAID BUT MY NUMBERS THE ONCE I LOOK AT FROM THE OFFICE OF BUDGET SUGGESTS THAT ABOUT ONE-THIRD OF THAT MONEY HISTORICALLY WOULD COME FROM THE STUDENT ABOUT TWO-THIRDS FROM THE STATE ROUGHLY AND NOW THAT'S FLIPPED.

AT LEAST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE IN THE INFORMATION I'VE BEEN RECEIVING.

WELL THAT'S BOUND TO CREATE A PROBLEMATICLY FOR THOSE WHO ARE ON THE LOWER INCOME LEVEL.

AND THAT IS PROBABLY MY MOST PRIMARY CONCERN AT THIS POINT.

>> Renee: THERE WERE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS AND BACK TO OTHER TOPICS.

THIS FROM HUNT IN JEFFERSON COUNTY.

HIGHER EDUCATION LEADERS SAID INDEPENDENT COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES CURRENT BUSINESS MODEL IS UNSUSTAINABLE.

WHERE IS THE NEW BUSINESS MODEL AND WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE?

>> PRESIDENT DYER?

>> WELL, THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION FROM Mr.

HELM WHO I REMEMBER FROM HIS DAYS IN INDEPENDENT HIGHER EDUCATION.

SO IT IS A TRICKY PROPOSITION.

THE BUSINESS MODEL IS TOUGH.

I WOULD NOT NECESSARILY RECOMMEND GOING AND STARTINGS A NEW COLLEGE.

IT IS A TOUGH GAME TO BE IN.

PARTICULARLY OUR INSTITUTIONS GET NO STATE SUPPORT OBVIOUSLY THAT IS HOW THEY ARE INDEPENDENT AND WHY.

THE INSTITUTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN MOST SUCCESSFUL HAVE FOUND A BALANCE OF THAT RELEVANCE PROGRAMS THAT ATTRACT THE STUDENTS.

AND ALTERNATE SOURCES OF REVENUE THAT MAY NOT BE YOUR TRADITIONAL ON CAMPUS STUDENTS.

AND SO WHEN YOU HAVE MORE FINANCIAL FLEXIBILITY TO TAKE RISKS, WE'RE SEEING GREAT GROWTH.

AT UNIVERSITY OF THE CUMBERLANDS IN SOUTHEAST KENTUCKY MIDWAY UNIVERSITY IS FOCUSED ON CAREER FOCUSED DEGREES AND THEY'VE SEEN EIGHT STRAIGHT YEARS OF ENROLLMENT GROWTH BUT IT IS A CHALLENGE THE BUSINESS MODEL IS TOUGH.

>> Renee: YEAH.

SO LET'S TALK ABOUT PERHAPS AN INSTITUTION PERHAPS PUBLIC IN SOUTHEAST KENTUCKY THE SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION IS 98.

SENATOR GIVENS THAT DIRECTED THE CPE TO STUDY SEVERAL SCENARIOS PERHAPS OF A LOCATION OF A FOUR YEAR POSSIBLE PUBLIC INSTITUTION IN EASTERN KENTUCKY.

THERE'S THE UNIVERSITY OF PIKEVILLE AND OTHER PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS THERE.

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE AND WHO IS NOT BEING SERVED IN THAT REGION THAT YOU FEEL WOULD BE SERVED IN THERE WAS EITHER A PUBLIC INSTITUTION OR A PRIVATE INSTITUTION THAT SOME KIND OF SHARING THERE WITH SOME PUBLIC SUPPORT?

>> SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION CAME FROM CONVERSATIONS WE HAD IN THE SENATE, AROUND THE QUESTION OF NUMBER ONE, LET'S DO A FULL-FLEDGED REVIEW 25 YEARS LATER LET'S LOOK AT THE LANDSCAPE OF KENTUCKY.

HOW ARE WE GOVERNING OUR INSTITUTIONS.

WHAT IS THE ROLE OF CPE AND THE GOVERNANCE OF OUR INSTITUTIONS.

ARE THEY A COORDINATING ENTITY OR SHOULD THEY HAVE MORE POWER OR LESS POWER.

HOW A TON MOUSE DO WE WANT THE BOARDS TO BE.

ALL OF THAT IS WOVEN IN.

WHAT HAS GOTTEN A LOT OF ATTENTION IS THAT QUESTION OF GEOGRAPHIC SPREAD IF YOU LOOK AT OUR INSTITUTIONS AND WE HAVE A GREAT ARRAY OF THE PRIVATES AND THE PUBLICS AROUND THE STATE.

BUT THERE IS A CONCENTRATION.

YOU WERE SHARING A NUMBER BEFORE WE CAME ON THE AIR WITHIN 60 MILES OF YOUR INSTITUTION THERE ARE 12 DIFFERENT INSTITUTIONS OF POST-SECONDARY DELIVERY.

SO WE HAVE A CONCENTRATION AND THEN WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A DESERT IN THE SOUTHEAST CORNER.

AND PRESIDENT WANTED TO THROW THAT HOOK IN ON THE RESOLUTION AS WELL TO SAY WHAT IF WE COULD PUT SOMETHING THERE WHAT IMPACT WOULD IT HAVE ON COMMUNITIES?

IT DOES NOT INDICATE WE'RE GOING TO BE VOTING TO PUT ONE THERE BUT IT CAUSES A LOT OF GREAT CONVERSATIONS TO HAPPEN WHICH IS NEVER A BAD THING.

>> Renee: I WANT TO GO BACK TO PART A OF WHAT SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION 98 ADDRESSES AND THAT'S THE I DON'T WANT MY WORDS NOT YOURS, THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE COUNCIL ON POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION OR WHAT THEY ARE CHARGED TO DO WHAT IS YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT THEIR ROLE AND HOW WOULD YOU CHANGE IT?

>> SURE.

I THINK IT GOES TO THE QUESTION OF HOW EFFECTIVE ARE WE DELIVERING POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION IN KENTUCKY AND IT NEVER HURTS TO OPEN THE HOOD AND LOOK UNDERNEATH.

THAT IS WHAT IT DOES.

SOME STATES HAVE A GOVERNING BOARD OF ONE BODY THAT MANAGES ALL THE UNIVERSITIES IN THAT STATE.

SOME HAVE REGIONAL BOARDS THAT MANAGE ALL THE INSTITUTIONS IN THAT REGION.

IN OUR CASE WE HAVE AUTONOMOUS BOARDS STRAIGHT FOR EACH INSTITUTION.

IT NEVER HURTS TO HAVE A ROBUST CONVERSATION SHOULD WE LOOK AT A DIFFERENT GOVERNANCE MODEL.

AND WOULD CPE BE THE ENTITY TO DO THAT IF WE WENT TO A ONE BOARD ACROSS THE STATE WHICH I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO BE DOING BUT THAT IS PART OF THAT CONVERSATION WE'RE HAVING.

>> Renee: GETTING RID OF THE BOARD OF REGENTS AND TRUSTEES?

>> SOME STATES DO IT BUT WE HAVE NO INTENT TO DO THAT.

BUT IT NEVER HURTS TO ASK THE QUESTIONS THAT THE PRESIDENT IS ASKING IN THE JOINT RESOLUTION.

>> Renee: SO SOME PEOPLE SAY WITHOUT THE INTENT TO PURSUE IT WHY ASK THE QUESTION?

>> BECAUSE IT CAUSES CONVERSATIONS THAT COME OUT OF THE WOODWORK.

>> Renee: MAKES FOR GOOD TELEVISION SHOWS.

>> I'VE BEEN IN MEETINGS OVER THE LAST THREE MONTHS THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SJR98 IT WAS RELATED TO POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION AND HE WOULD WALK THROUGH AND SAY HI AND EVERYBODY IN THE ROOM IS LIKE ARE WE DOING SJ98 WHAT IS THE GOAL?

IT'S CREATED ALL KINDS OF WONDERFUL CONVERSATIONS ABOUT REEVALUATING AND REASSESSING AND ARE WE DELIVERING FOR THE STUDENTS OF KENTUCKY AND THE TAXPAYERS THAT FUND IT THE MOST EFFECTIVE MODEL OF EDUCATION OR NOT.

EVERY CHAIN IS GOING TO HAVE A WEAK LINK.

>> Renee: Dr. .

>> I THINK AS WE HAVE A CHANCE TO ENGAGE IN THIS CONVERSATION AND REALLY LOOK AT HIGHER EDUCATION IN KENTUCKY, I THINK THAT SENATOR GIVENS HITS ON POINTS THAT WE SHOULD BE IMPROVING AND LOOKING AND SAYING ARE WE FULFILLING THAT MISSION, FULFILLING THAT PROMISE AND AS AN INSTITUTION THAT SERVES THAT REGION OF THE STATE, WITH CAMPUSES IN MANCHESTER AND WITH A PARTNERSHIP IN HAZARD KENTUCKY I THINK WE'VE GOT TO BE STRATEGIC ABOUT HOW ARE WE SERVING THOSE STUDENTS.

WHERE DO THEY WANT TO BE SERVED.

HOW DO THEY WANT TO BE SERVED.

I WILL SAY THAT EDUCATION HAS CHANGED FUNDAMENTALLY IN A LOT OF WAYS.

AND COVID ACCELERATED THAT ON-LINE LEARNING EXPERIENCE IN A BIG WAY.

SO I THINK THAT THESE ARE GOOD QUESTIONS FOR US TO ASK.

I THINK HAVING THAT DIALOGUE IS HEALTHY FOR ALL OF US AND I'M GLAD THAT SENATOR GIVENS CREATED SOME REAL ACTIVITY ON OUR CAMPUSES AND A LOT OF INTEREST TO TALK ABOUT THOSE THINGS.

BUT I DO THINK THERE'S GREAT PARTNERSHIP FROM THE COMMUNITY COLLEGES TO THE FOUR YEAR INSTITUTIONS TO OUR PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS I THINK AS A SECTOR HIGHER EDUCATION IN KENTUCKY IS PULLING THE ROPE IN THE SAME DIRECTION.

WE WANT MORE STUDENTS TO GET MORE DEGREES SO THAT WE CAN POSITION THIS STATE TO BE MORE SUCCESSFUL AND I THINK THAT WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT THE MORE DEGREES THE MORE EDUCATED OUR COMMUNITIES ARE THE BETTER OFF WE WILL BE.

>> Renee: YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR OWN GOVERNING BOARD?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND FROM THIS REASON.

I THINK HAVING FOR THIS REASON, I THINK HAVING THE CONVERSATION IS GOOD AS SENATOR GIVENS POINTED OUT IT'S GOOD TO HAVE THE DISCUSSIONS AND WE HAD HEALTHY VIBRANT DISCUSSIONS THROUGHOUT THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS.

AND IT'S GOOD FOR HIGHER EDUCATION AND THE COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY AT ALL LEVELS.

IT TOOK ME FOUR-AND-A-HALF HOURS TO GET HERE TODAY.

FROM MURRAY.

SO WE SERVE THE FAR WESTERN PART OF THIS COMMONWEALTH.

WONDERFUL GOD'S COUNTRY.

WONDERFUL PART OF THIS STATE.

BUT WE'RE VERY DIFFERENT THAN THE EASTERN PART OF THE STATE.

WE'RE DIFFERENT THAN THE NORTHERN PART OF THE STATE.

WHO BEST KNOWS THAT REGION IS OUR GOVERNING BOARD.

AND THE ADMINISTRATORS AND ME AND THOSE OTHER INDIVIDUALS OUR FACULTY AND STAFF THAT ARE THERE.

SO I THINK THAT'S A HEALTHY APPROACH TO LOOK AT THAT MODEL.

I THINK THE MODEL IS WORKING.

I THINK THE COUNCIL ON POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION IS DOING A GOOD JOB AND THEY HAVE SINCE REFORM WAS PUT IN PLACE.

BUT I AGREE WE TALK ABOUT THIS A LOT, IT'S GOOD TO HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS.

THERE'S NOTHING WRONG AT ALL.

>> Renee: SO Dr. THOMPSON, BY DECEMBER FIRST, I THINK YOU ARE TO HAVE A REPORT?

CAN YOU GIVE US A SNEAK PEEK SPOILER ALERT ON WHAT YOU ARE FINDING?

>> WE CAN.

I CAN.

TO A DEGREE.

WE CPU IS CHARGED TO LOOK AT THIS AND IT WAS NOT TO LOOK AT THE EFFECTIVENESS OF CPE BUT DELIVERY OF HIGHER EDUCATION IN THE STATE AND DOES OUR CURRENT MODEL WORK, SHOULD IT BE TWEAKED, SHOULD WE HAVE A NOW WUNSCH ALL OF THOSE IN IN PLACE.

IT IS NOT A MUTUAL EXCLUSIVE EITHER OR.

THERE ARE VARIATIONS THAT COULD TAKE PLACE.

WE'RE WORKING WITH ERNT AND YOUNG WHO IS DOING INTERVIEWS ACROSS THE STATE WITH A VARIETY OF OUR CONSTITUENT CITY TO TALK ABOUT WHAT IS NEEDED.

WE HAVE IDENTIFIED THROUGH DATA THAT DESERT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN SOUTHEASTERN KENTUCKY AND THERE IS ONE.

AND HOW THEN DO WE BEST DELIVER TO THAT POPULATION.

BECAUSE WE ARE NOT SERVING AS MUCH OF THAT AREA AS WE NEED TO.

WITHOUT A DOUBT IN HIGHER EDUCATION HAS TO BE A KEY.

DECEMBER ONE WE WILL HAVE THAT.

THE THREE PARTS OF THAT IS LOOKING AT THE OVERALL GOVERNANCE MODEL.

OTHER PART IS THE FOUR YEAR INSTITUTION IN SOUTHEASTERN KENTUCKY AND THE OTHER IS LOOKING AT KCKTCS.

WE WILL HAVE WHAT I CALL POSSIBLE DIRECTIONS.

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WILL MAKEUP THEIR MIND TO DO WHATSOEVER WHATEVER THEY ARE GOING TO DO BUT WE WILL HAVE POSSIBLE DIRECTIONS AS YOU KNOW ME WE ARE GOING TO HAVE DATA, ANALYTICS WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT STUDY TO GO WITH IT.

WE WILL GIVE THEM A PACKAGE TO TAKE A LOOK AT AND PICK AND CHOOSE TO DO NOTHING OR DO PART OR DO ALL.

BUT WE WILL HAVE THAT DONE BY DECEMBER 1.

>> Renee: PRESIDENT DYER ARE YOU PART OF THIS CONVERSATION SINCE IT COULD AFFECT YOU?

>> CERTAINLY WE'VE BEEN ASKED TO GIVE INPUT TO THE CONSULTANTSES.

I'VE TALKED WITH THEM MY PRESIDENTS IN THAT REGION TALKED WITH THEM.

OUR POSITION IN ANY OF THESE CONVERSATIONS IS ALWAYS HOW CAN WE MOST HELP THE STUDENTS.

IF THERE WAS ANYTHING WE COULD DO IN TERMS OF FINANCIAL AID SPECIFIC TO THE STUDENTS IN THAT REGION THAT COULD BE HELPFUL THERE WAS A MODEL IN THE COAL COUNTY SCHOLARSHIP.

BUT, YEAH, WE'VE BEEN FOLLOWING ALONG CLOSELY.

>> Renee: AND WE SHOULD MAKE THE POINT TONIGHT THAT THE PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS ARE NOT AT ODDS WITH THE PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS, RIGHT?

THERE IS SYNERGISTIC COLLABORATION?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND I WOULD SAY FROM TALKING WITH MY COLLEAGUES AROUND THE COUNTRY WE HAVE A BETTER RELATIONSHIP WITH MY COLLEAGUES AROUND THE TABLE THAN THE RELATIONSHIP THAT EXISTS IN A LOT OF OTHER STATES.

I'M GRATEFUL FOR THAT FOR Dr. THOMPSON'S LEADERSHIP.

YEAH, WE ARE A PART OF AS Dr. McFADDEN SAID WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER.

WE WANT TO BENEFIT THE COMMONWEALTH.

WE WANT TO EDUCATE AS MANY STUDENTS AS WE CAN.

WE WANT TO DRIVE THE ECONOMY FORWARD, PRODUCE THAT EDUCATED WORKFORCE AND WE ARE A BIG PART OF THAT.

>> Renee: BIG QUESTION WHO DO STUDENTS WANT THOSE PAYING THE TUITION AND GOING INTO DEBT FINANCIAL AID IS NOT FREE MONEY THERE IS A CONCERN YOU HAVE TO PAY THAT BACK.

WHAT DO THEY WANT OUT OF THEIR HIGHER EDUCATION EXPERIENCE AND IS IT BEING DELIVERED?

>> IT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

WE DO HAVE ANSWERS AND THANK GOODNESS WE SPENT TIME COLLECTING THAT.

THEY WANT QUALITY AND RELEVANCE.

IN OTHER WORDS, IS THIS DEGREE AND THEY WANT UP FRONT TRANSPARENCY.

WHAT IS THE NET COST?

WHAT IS IT GOING TO COST ME TO GO AND WHAT KIND OF RETURN DO WE HAVE?

WE HAVE THE STUDENT RIGHT TO KNOW WEBSITE THEY CAN SEE THAT.

WHAT THEY ARE TELLING US IN MANY CASES WHEN I TALK TO THE STUDENTS THEY ARE SAYING WELL, I GOT THIS DEGREE IN MY SENIOR YEAR AND I'M NOT SURE WHAT TO DO WITH IT.

WE'RE AUSHING FROM A STANDPOINT WE CREATE A PROFILE WITH CAP STONES WHERE THEY KNOW HOW TO DO THAT BUT THEY WANT RELEVANCE.

TO ME, KENTUCKY IS CLOSE TO BEING THE FIRST STATE WE WILL BE ACTUALLY TO MEASURE QUALITY.

WHICH WILL GO TO LOOKING AT WHAT EMPLOYERS THINK ABOUT THE PRODUCT THE STUDENTS WE'RE PRODUCING AND WHAT STUDENTS THINK ABOUT WHAT THAT IS.

THAT IS THE BEST WAY TO MEASURE IT.

SOMETIMES IN THE PAST WE LOOKED AT IT BY WHAT WE PROVIDED THEM AND WE KNOW IT'S QUALITY.

BUT THEY ARE TELLING US THEY WANT QUALITY AND RELEVANCE AND THEY WANT AFFORDABILITY.

AND THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE HEAR MORE OFTEN THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

>> Renee: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE TRANSITION ISSUES THAT YOU HAD Dr. McFADDEN WHEN KIDS WERE IMPACTED BY COVID-19 INTERRUPTIONS DURING K-12 EXPERIENCE AND HAD MAYBE SOME LEARNING LOSS AND LOSS SOCIALIZATION AND ALL THAT GOES WITH THAT AND MENTAL DISTRESS.

HOW IS EASTERN ADAPTED OR READAPTED THE SERVICES THAT YOU DELIVER TO ADDRESS THE WHOLE STUDENT AND ARE YOU SEEING THOSE SERVICES IN MORE DEMAND THAN EVER BEFORE.

>> AS WE TAKE NOTE THIS GRADUATING CLASS IN THE SPRING OF 24 WHERE THE SENIORS OF 2020.

SO I THINK THAT ALL OF US ARE GIVING THOUGHT TO GRADUATING A CLASS THAT THEY DIDN'T GRADUATE FROM HIGH SCHOOL THEY DIDN'T HAVE THEIR SENIOR PROM AND WE'VE WORKED THROUGH THAT OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS.

SOCIALLY, EMOTIONALLY, COVID TOOK A TOLL ON THE STUDENT BODY.

I THINK AS WE TALKED EARLIER THERE'S A LOT MORE OF THIS CLASS COMING IN THIS FALL FEELS VERY NORMAL.

THEY ARE SOCIALLY ENGAGED AND INTERESTED IN HAVING A FULL COLLEGE EXPERIENCE THEY ARE INQUISITIVE.

THERE IS A LOT OF THAT KIND OF HIGHER TEMPERATURE ON CAMPUS ABOUT STUDENT ENGAGEMENT.

BUT I WILL SAY AS WE LOOK AT WHERE THE COSTS HAVE BEEN WHERE HAVE WE INVESTED IN SERVICES FOR STUDENTS, YES WE'VE INVESTED IN THE CLASSROOM BUT IN THOSE SUPPORT SERVICES FOR COUNSELING SERVICES AND MENTORING SERVICES TRYING TO HELP THE STUDENTS GET THROUGH THIS FOUR-YEAR PERIOD, THAT IS GOING TO IMPACT THE NEXT 40 YEARS OF THEIR LIFE WE TAKE THAT SERIOUSLY.

FROM A COST PERSPECTIVE WE HAVE PUT AN IMMENSE AMOUNT OF RESOURCES INTO THE WRAP AROUND SERVICES TO SAY IF YOU START WITH US WE WILL DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO HELP YOU FINISH THAT IS OUR COMMITMENT.

I KNOW THE OTHER INSTITUTIONS ARE THE SAME.

BUT IT HAS TAKEN A TOLL ON OVERALL THE MORALE ON CAMPUS FROM FACULTY TO STAFF.

THE AMOUNT OF SUPPORT THE AMOUNT OF ENERGY AND THEN OF COURSE JUST THE DISTANCE LEARNING THAT HAPPENED IN THE SPRING OF 2020.

WE'RE ALL ON SPRING BREAK AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN DON'T COME BACK TO CAMPUS WE'RE GOING TO HELP YOU GET YOUR THINGS WE'RE GOING FULLY REMOTE BUT I GIVE SO MUCH KUDOS TO THE AMAZING FACULTY AND THE STAFF AND EVERYONE WHO CAME TOGETHER ON ALL OF OUR CAMPUSES WE PIVOTED AND WE DELIVERED THE VERY BEST WE COULD.

AND WE LEARNED A LOT FROM IT.

I THINK WE'RE ALL BETTER FOR IT.

WE ARE VERY HOPEFUL NOT TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH IT AGAIN.

BUT I THINK WE'VE BUILT A LOT OF SUPPORT SERVICES THAT ARE GOING TO HELP OUR STUDENTS LONG INTO THE FUTURE.

>> Renee: Dr. JACK SOB?

>> SIMILAR.

ALL OF US ARE HAVING TO FOCUS ON THOSE SUPPORT SERVICES.

ADVISING AND WE HAD AN ADVISING TASK FORCE DO A GREAT DEAL OF WORK OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

AND GOOD THINGS RECOMMENDATIONS HAVE COME OUT OF THAT AND THE WAY WE'VE CHANGED ADVISING MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES, HEALTH SERVICES IN GENERAL.

ALL THESE THINGS ON ALL OF OUR CAMPUSES IS BECOMING REALLY MORE FOCUSED ON AND AS WELL AS ENHANCED AND THERE'S COSTS THAT GO WITH ALL OF THESE AS WELL.

SO WE'RE MINDFUL OF THOSE COMPONENTS ALSO.

>> Renee: I WANT TO PIVOT NOW AND TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT OF THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT RULING ON RACE BASED ADMISSIONS IN COLLEGES.

AND WE DO KNOW THAT THERE ARE CURRENTLY MORE THAN 30 BILLS ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT ARE TARGETING DEI, DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION FUNDING PRACTICES AND PROMOTION.

THERE HAVE BEEN STATES THAT ACTED ON LEGISLATION AND SIGNED BY THE GOVERNOR.

AND I'M CURIOUS TO KNOW AND I WILL START WITH YOU LEADER NEAL ABOUT YOUR CONCERNS ABOUT KENTUCKY FOLLOWING THAT SAME TRAJECTORY?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

PUT IT ON ME.

LET ME TELL YOU.

LET'S PUT IT ALL INTO CONTEXT HERE.

SEE WHAT IS GOING ON HERE AS I LOOK AT IT, IS REACTION IT'S REACTIONARY WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE.

AND IT'S JUST THIS ITERATION OF IT.

IF YOU GO BACK HISTORICALLY YOU WILL SEE AFTER EVERY MOVE FORWARD TO SORT OF SPREAD OUT THE BENEFITS AND THE VALUES AND THE SOCIETY, YOU SEE A REACTION COME RIGHT BEHIND IT.

LET'S WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW.

AND I THINK PEOPLE OUGHT TO UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT JUST INDIVIDUALS SITTING AROUND AND VARIOUS PLACES IN THE COUNTRY AND DECIDING HEY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHERE WE OUGHT TO GO WITH THIS NOW.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THIS IS INTENTIONAL.

AND IT IS A NATIONAL PIECE.

I CAN PULL OUT A NAME FOR YOU THAT IS REALLY MUCH INVOLVED IN A LOT OF THIS STUFF NAMED CHRISTOPHER RUFO.

YOU MAY HAVE HEARD OF HIS NAME, REPUBLICAN ACTIVIST THAT WAS OUT IN THE FIELD YEARS AGO.

THIS SAME INDIVIDUAL THAT PUSHED THIS ANTI-SO-CALLED ANTI-CRT PIECE WAS VERY STRATEGIC AND FOCUSED ON WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO DO.

AND NOW WHO DOES HE WORK FOR?

GOVERNOR DESANTIS AND IS INVOLVED IN THAT INITIATIVE THERE.

I SEE THIS AS REACTIONARY ACTIVITY ENABLED BY THE INDIVIDUALS THAT SEE SOME VALUE IN RIDING THE WAVE OF THAT REACTION.

PERHAPS THEY BELIEVE IN IT PERHAPS THEY DON'T BUT THEY ARE FACILITATING IT.

AND I THINK IT HURTS US ALL WHEN WE DO THAT.

IT HURTS US ALL WHEN WE TRY TO RUN AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT WE ARE DIVERSE, THAT WE DO NEED TO KNOW ABOUT OURSELVES.

WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND OUR HISTORY.

WE NEED TO EXPLORE THOSE THINGS.

IN FACT IT IS THE CORE OF EDUCATION.

WHEN I SEE THESE THINGS I SAY TO MYSELF, MY THAT IS A PERFECT MODEL OF ANTIINTELLECTUALISM, ANTIEDUCATION, AND A VERY NARROW PERSPECTIVE WHERE WE'RE GOING.

UNDER GEARED THAT WITH CHANGES IN OUR CHANGES IN DEMOGRAPHICS.

IT DRIVES A LOT OF THIS.

AND FEAR IS ROOTED IN SOME OF THESE AND SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT FEEL OR HAVE A PERCEPTION THAT THEY LOSE A POSITION OR A POSITION OF INFLUENCE OR BEING ABLE TO RECEIVE THE VALUES THAT THEY HISTORICALLY HAVE THEY USE QUESTIONS AND ISSUES OF RACE FOR INSTANCE TO UNDERMINE WHAT THESE PROGRAMS PROVIDE FOR US IN TERMS OF EDUCATION AND IN TERMS OF UNDERSTANDING MORE ABOUT OURSELVES AND OUR PAST.

IT'S VERY UNFORTUNATE.

AND I LOOK AT SOME OF THESE INDIVIDUALS AND I THINK SOME DO THIS WITHOUT TRYING TO BE -- THEY ARE NOT MOTIVATED BY RACISM NECESSARILY.

THEY'VE COME TO SOME CONCLUSION.

BUT I THINK RACE RUNS THROUGH THE MID-ELF OF IT AND IT IS A REACTION WE'VE SEEN FROM TIME TO TIME WHEN THERE'S PROGRESS AWAY FROM WHERE WE WERE BACK IN THE 1800'S.

>> Renee: SENATOR GIVENS I WANT TO GO TO YOU WE ALL REMEMBER AFTER THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD AND THE KILLING OF BREONNA TAYLOR THERE WAS A REACTION BY POLICYMAKERS IN MANY STATES BUT IN KENTUCKY TO LOOK AT AT RACE THROUGH A MORE CANDID LENS AN OPEN CONVERSATION AND THERE WAS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR RACE AND OPPORTUNITY THAT I THINK CAME FROM SOME OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS AND THERE SEEMED TO BE AT THAT TIME A SENSITIVITY TO DEI.

BUT THE PENDULUM HAS SWUNG THE OTHER DIRECTION PERHAPS YOU WOULD AGREE OR DISAGREE.

WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE HOW THE PERFORMANCE FUNDING FORMULA WORKS FOR HIGHER EDUCATION AND YOU ARE THE ARCHITECT OF THAT AND YOU HEAR ABOUT BILLS THAT ARE GOING ACROSS THE COUNTRY TO UNDERMINE DEI EFFORTS, WOULD THAT NOT UNDERMINE THE METRICS OF PERFORMANCE FUNDING MODEL FOR HIGHER-ED IF DEI IS DISMANTLED IN SOME WAY IN KENTUCKY?

>> GREAT QUESTION.

A LOT TO UNPACK THERE, RENEE.

LET ME START WITH PERFORMANCE FUNDING BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE YOU ENDED.

I'M THRILLED TO HAVE BEEN A PART OF CONVERSATION THAT ENDED UP WITH WE HAVE A NEW MODEL OF FUNDING IN KENTUCKY.

PRESIDENT THOMPSON AND HIS LEADERSHIP AND HIS STAFF, COMING TOGETHER THE UNIVERSITY OF PRESIDENTS AROUND A UNIQUE MODEL OF FUNDING IN 2016 THAT WE HAVE NOW INCORPORATED INTO THE WAY WE FUND POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION IN KENTUCKY.

INSTEAD OF THE OLD SHARES MODEL THAT GAVE EVERYONE A PORTION WHAT THEY RECEIVED WE ARE DRIVEN BY STUDENT SUCCESS, COMPLETION RATES OTHER METRICS AND FACTORS THAT ALL BLEND INTO A PERFORMANCE FUNDING MODEL.

A PORTION OF THAT REMAINS AND IS STILL TODAY AND WILL BE BASED ON UNDERREPRESENTED MINORITY OUTCOMES.

NOW, YOU WERE SAYING A MOMENT AGO ABOUT YOUR FIRST GEN STUDENTS IF THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY CAN GRADUATE A FIRST GENERATION COLLEGE GOING STUDENT FROM A LOW-INCOME FAMILY WHO HAPPENS TO BE OF AN UNDERREPRESENTED MINORITY THEY HAVE TREMENDOUS FINANCIAL INCENTIVES THROUGH THE PERFORMANCE FUNDING MODEL TO GET THAT STUDENT ACROSS THE FINISH LINE AND THOSE WILL REMAIN AND THE REASON THEY NEED TO REMAIN THEY IMPACT KENTUCKY FOREVER.

WE'VE CHANGED NOT JUST A LIFE, WE'VE CHANGED ALL THE LIVES THAT COME AFTER THAT ONE.

AS A RESULT OF THAT FIRST GENERATION LOW INCOME UNDERREPRESENTED MINORITY STUDENT FINISHING SUCCESSFULLY.

NOW, JUNE OF THIS SUMMER, IS WHEN THE SUPREME COURT RULING CAME OUT.

I THINK IT WAS THE STUDENTS FOR FAIR ADMISSION VERSUS HARVARD AND STUDENTS FOR FAIR ADMISSION AND UNIVERSITY THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA.

THE SUPREME COURT RULING STATES THAT COLLEGES IN THE UNITED STATES CAN NO LONGER SOLELY USE RACE AS THE CRITERIA FOR ADMISSION OF A STUDENT.

THERE ARE SO MANY ELEMENTS AROUND THIS CONVERSATION OF DIVERSITY, DIVERSITY OF LIFE EXPERIENCE, DIVERSITY OF INCOME LEVELS, DIVERSITY OF SKIN COLOR ALL OF WHICH GOES TOGETHER TO CREATE THIS LEARNING ENVIRONMENT THAT BENEFITS EVERY STUDENT.

SO I'M GOING TO BE A STRONG PROPONENT FOR THE CONTINUED EFFORT FOR US TO INCLUDE DIVERSITY IN OUR INSTITUTIONS AND DIVERSITY OF THOUGHT, DIVERSITY OF THE PAST SOMEONE HAS WALKED ALL THE ELEMENTS CAN STILL BE FOUND IN THE CLASSROOM IN KENTUCKY.

>> Renee: LEADER NEAL?

>> YOU KNOW, I AGREE WITH THAT.

TO A DEGREE.

BECAUSE I THINK THAT THOSE THE SUPREME COURT PIECE DOES NOT KILL THE OPPORTUNITY TO SUPPORT THE DIVERSITY IN OUR UNIVERSITIES AND SO FORTH.

I DON'T THINK RACE HAS BEEN USED AS A SOLE FACTOR FOR A LONGTIME.

THOSE WHO DISCUSSION THAT I THINK THEY ARE OFF BASE WITH RESPECT TO THAT.

BUT I DO THINK THAT THE OPPORTUNITY FOR DIVERSITY IS STILL NOT TROUNCED ON BY THE SUPREME COURT DECISION.

BUT THERE IS ANOTHER PIECE, THOUGH, YOU MENTIONED THE PERFORMANCE FUNDING PIECE.

WHICH I THINK IS A LAUDABLE PIECE TO TRY TO ACHIEVE SOME TYPE OF SOMETHING THAT ENCOURAGE INDIVIDUALS TO DO THEIR BEST, INSTITUTIONS IT BE REWARDED.

BUT THE PROBLEM IS IN MY VIEW AND I THINK I'VE RAISED THIS WITH SENATOR GIVENS BEFORE, IS THAT WHEN YOU GET TO INSTITUTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN HISTORICALLY DEPRIVED OF THE SUPPORT THEY'VE HAD BECAUSE OF OUR HISTORY, AND BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF SUPPORT HISTORICALLY, WHEN YOU THEN PUT THOSE INSTITUTIONS IN THE SAME BAG ON A PERFORMANCE FUNDING MODEL THAT WITH THE FAT CATS OR THE BIG GUYS WHO I RESPECT TREMENDOUSLY LIKE THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY I CAN'T COME TO LEXINGTON AND NOT LOVE THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY I LIKE THEIR FOOTBALL.

THE POINT IS THAT WHEN YOU PUT THEM IN THE SAME BAG SMALLER UNITINSTITUTIONS DON'T HAVE THEE LEVERAGE NOT IN THE ROOM NOT IN THE DISCUSSION.

SO WHAT HAPPENS?

>> YOU END UP WITH TWO UNIVERSITIES OVER THE HISTORICAL FUNDING THAT DON'T GET ANY BENEFIT FROM THAT SITUATION.

YOU HAVE AN INSTITUTION THAT IS HISTORICALLY, HBCU THAT WE HAVE AND KENTUCKY STATE UNIVERSITY, WHICH HAS BEEN DEPRIVED OF SUPPORT IN THIS LAND GRANT ALLOCATIONS HISTORICALLY AND I THINK WE CAN SHOW THAT.

BUT YOU PUT THEM ON THE SAME STARTING LINE WITH THE OTHER INSTITUTIONS YOU CAN EXPECT THEM NOT TO BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE THE OUTCOMES AND BE COMPETITIVE IN THAT REALM.

AND I THINK WHAT THAT MEANS AND I THINK THEY'VE LOOKED AT THIS AND TRIED TO ADJUST AND ADDRESS THIS I'M NOT SURE HOW FAR IT'S COME YET BUT I ENCOURAGE THAT WE NEED TO BUILD INTO THAT MODEL SOMETHING THAT SUBSTANTIALLY TAKES THAT INTO CONVERSATION SO THE INSTITUTIONS DON'T FALL OFF THE BACK END BECAUSE OF THE HISTORICAL DEFICITS.

>> Renee: DO YOU CONSIDER YOUR RECEIVE TO BE COMPETING AGAINST A BIGGER FISH U.K.?

>> AS WE LOOK AT THE MODEL AND WE HAVE A COMMITMENT TO LOOK AT THE MODEL WE'RE CONTINUING TO REFINE THAT.

THE HARD PART WAS WE STARTED THIS WITH NO NEW MONEY.

FROM 2016 TO 18 TO 20 THERE WAS NO MONEY GOING INTO THE MODEL.

THERE WAS MONEY COMING OUT OF THE MODEL.

I'M GRATEFUL WE HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO INVEST AND WE'RE STARTING TO SEE HOW THAT WORKS.

I DO THINK WE'RE LOOKING AT THE RIGHT THINGS.

WE'RE LOOKING AT DEGREE PRODUCTION AND CREDIT HOURS, AND SERVING UNDERREPRESENTED POPULATIONS, FIRST GENERATION COLLEGE STUDENTS.

ADULT LEARNERS INTO THAT POPULATION.

I THINK WE'RE LOOKING AT THE RIGHT THINGS.

I DO THINK THERE IS A FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A REGIONAL INSTITUTION OR HBCU, AND THEN OUR RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS AND AT SOME POINT WE WILL HAVE TO TAKE A HARD LOOK AT THAT AND FIGURE OUT WHAT ARE THE ARE THE THINGS WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE WITH THE MISSIONS OF EACH OF THE INSTITUTIONS AND EACH OF US HAVE A UNIQUE MISSION WE SERVE.

>> I AGREE WITH PRESIDENT McFADDEN.

EVERY THREE YEARS WE LOOK AT THE MODEL WE COMPLETED A REVIEW OF THE MODEL ACTUALLY A FEW DAYS AGO WE HAD A WORK GROUP THAT SPENT A GREAT DEAL OF TIME UNPACKING THE MODEL AND MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OR WILL BE MADE VERY SOON IN REGARD TO SOME CHANGES.

ONE OF THE CHANGES THAT ACTUALLY TWO THAT I THINK WILL REALLY HELP IS EVERYONE HERE IS FOR ACCESS AND AFFORDABILITY.

IF WE SAY OR REMEMBER NOTHING ELSE FROM TONIGHT IT'S ACCESS AND AFFORDABILITY.

IT'S HOW WE'RE GOING TO MOVE KENTUCKY FORWARD.

IT'S HOW WE'RE GOING TO GET MORE STUDENTS GOING TO COLLEGE A COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY.

SO ADULT LEARNERS WILL NOW BE A COMPONENT OF THE PERFORMANCE FUNDING MODEL AND ALSO AN ENHANCED COMPONENT WILL BE LOW INCOME STUDENTS.

THAT'S THE RECOMMENDATION.

WE THINK THAT SHOULD PASS.

WE HOPE THAT IT WILL PASS THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

THOSE ARE TWO IMPORTANT PIECES TO THIS ENTIRE PERFORMANCE FUNDING MODEL.

AND WE'LL STEP BACK AND LOOK IN THREE YEARS AT HOW THESE PIECES ARE WORKING FOR EACH INSTITUTION AND HOW IT'S WORKING AS A WHOLE.

IS THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY AND THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE ARE THEY DIFFERENT THAN KENTUCKY STATE, MURRAY STATE, EASTERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY ET CETERA.

AND SO THAT DISCUSSION WILL OCCUR AS WELL.

>> Renee: PRESIDENT THOMPSON?

>> YES.

WE WILL BE MAKING A RECOMMENDATION TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WHILE THE RECOMMENDATIONS WE'LL MAKE IN ADDITION TO INCREASING LOW INCOME PERCENT AND HAVE AN ADULT LEARNER METRIC WE'RE ALSO GOING TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION WE GIVE KSU AND MORE HED HIGHER SMALL SCHOOL ADJUSTMENT WHERE THEY CAN PARTICIPATE AND EARN FROM THIS POINT FORWARD.

THAT WAS AN ISSUE BECAUSE IT'S HARD IF YOU DON'T HAVE MONEY TO BUILD OFF OF IT.

I WANT TO PICK UP THE DEI PIECE A LITTLE BIT.

IT'S IMPORTANT FOR ME TO SAY THAT KENTUCKY WE'VE HAD AN EXPANSIVE DEI DEFINITION PROBABLY BEFORE ANY OTHER STATE.

WE LOOK AT LOW INCOME.

LOOK AT FIRST GENERATION, LOOK AT ADULT LEARNERS.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DIVERSITY THOUGHT AND SONG.

BOTTOM LINE WHEN COVID HAPPENED THE ONLY GROUP THAT WE WERE UP ENROLLMENT IN WERE UNDERREPRESENTED POPULATIONS.

IT IS A FACT THAT THAT'S GROWING.

SO THE IDEA THAT WE WOULD DISENFRANCHISE ANYONE FROM TAKING PART WILL COME BACK AND BUY THIS IS WHAT I SAY.

THE IDEA THAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO DIRECT WITH OUR STRATEGIC PROCESS OUR PERFORMANCE FUNDING TO DO WHAT THE STATE IS NEEDING TO DO TO PUT PEOPLE IN THE WORKFORCE OF ALL DIFFERENT KINDS OF BACKGROUNDS.

ONE OTHER PIECE YOU TALK TO EMPLOYERS WHO DO THEY TELL YOU?

WE NEED A DIVERSE WORKFORCE.

WE WANT PEOPLE TO COME IN WITH A DIVERSE WAY OF THINKING AND PROBLEM SOLVING.

FOR ANYTHING THAT PASSES I HOPE IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND WE'RE GOING TO WORK WITH THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY CLOSE ON THE TRONT END THAT WE HOPE IT GOES TO ENHANCE THE GOODNESS THAT WE'VE ACTUALLY HAVE IN PLACE.

I GIVE OUR CAMPUSES A LOT OF CREDIT THEY TOOK THIS AND CHANGED BEHAVIORS AT LEVELS IT'S HARD TO CHANGE BIG INSTITUTIONAL BEHAVIOR.

AND THEY DID TO REALLY FOCUS ON WHAT WAS NEEDING TO BE FOCUSED ON.

I WILL GIVE CREDIT AND IT IS WORKING.

AND I HOPE THE NEXT EDITION WILL WORK BETTER.

>> RENEE IF I COULD FOLLOW HIS STATEMENT BRIEFLY.

AS WE DRAW TO A CLOSE I WANT TO EMPHASIZE SOMETHING PRESIDENT THOMPSON AARON THOMPSON MENTIONED EARLY THAT EVERYONE OF THESE MEN AND LEADERS WOMEN LEADERS ON CAMPUSES HAVE LEANED INTO THIS 60 BY 30 GOAL WE TALKED ABOUT STUDENTS SUCCESS, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT INSTITUTIONAL SUCCESS LET'S TALK ABOUT TAXPAYER INVESTMENT SUCCESS.

WE WERE DRIFTING YOU MENTIONED THE 25 YEARS, SINCE POST-SECONDARY ED REFORM, AND OUR GOALS EARLY THOSE GOALS WERE TO BE AT THE NATIONAL AVERAGE AND WE DRIFTED BACK JUST SLUGGISHLY IN THAT PERIOD FROM 2005-2006 UP TO 2015.

WE DRIFTED BACK.

WE LOST THE NORTH STAR.

UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF CPE AND THESE INSTITUTIONS AND THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WE ARE NOW FOCUSED AGAIN ON 60 BY 30.

IT DOESN'T JUST MEAN COLLEGE DEGREES.

POST-SECONDARY CREDENTIALS THAT LEAD TO A GOOD JOB COUNT IN THIS AS WELL.

BUT IT HAS A RIPPLE EFFECT ACROSS OUR STATE ECONOMY.

CORRECTIONS COST, MEDICAL COSTS, TAX REVENUES ALL THOSE THINGS ARE POSITIVELY IMPACTED WHEN WE HAVE A EDUCATED CONSTITUENCY AND EDUCATED CITIZENRY ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH AND THIS NORTH STAR OF 60 BY 30 IS LEADING US THAT WAY.

>> .

>> IF I MAY, AND I AGREE WITH ALL OF THAT THAT IS ALL IMPORTANT AND I WANT TO PUT THIS INTO CONTEXT BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO BE PROJECTED AS A NAY SAYER BUT I AM SAYING WE PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO PERFORMANCE FUNDING AND OTHER ISSUES, A LONGTIME HAS PASSED.

IT DOESN'T TAKE ROCKET SCIENCE TO CORRECT SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

IT TAKES A COMMITMENT TO MAKE THE INVESTMENT AND BUILD THAT INVESTMENT IN CALCULATE IT TO GET THE OUTCOME AND TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THOSE DYNAMICS THAT MAKE A SCHOOL LIKE HBCU OR MOORHEAD NOT COMPETITIVE WITH THE LARGER INSTITUTIONS.

AND YOU ARE DOING IT ALL ALSO IN THE CONTEXT OF NOW WHAT THEY ARE SAYING THEY ARE HAVING CHALLENGES IN ENROLLMENT.

ALL THIS GETS INTO THE MIX AND YOU CAN PUT THE FRAMEWORKS TOGETHER BUT UNLESS YOU GET VERY INTENTIONAL AND VERY COMMITTED TO DEALING WITH WHAT REALLY DOESN'T TAKE A LOT IN MY VIEW AS A PRIORITY, TO CORRECT, THEN IT'S GOING TO LINGER ON AND ON AND ON AND IT WILL BE 10 YEARS AND THEN 20 YEARS.

THAT IS WHAT CONCERNS ME.

I DON'T THINK SOMEONE IS TRYING TO DO HARM.

I THINK WE HAVE TO RAISE THAT A LEVEL OF PRIORITY AND SAY THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE WE TAKE CARE OF AS WE GO FORWARD.

>> Renee: WITH A MINUTE REMAINING I DON'T WANT TO ASK A QUESTION ABOUT THE LOTTERY TASK FORCE WHICH WE DO WANT TO TALK ABOUT AT SOME POINT AND WHAT IS HAPPENING.

THIS HAS BEEN A GOOD FOUNDATIONAL CONVERSATION ABOUT HIGHER-ED IN KENTUCKY AND WE'LL TALK TO THE CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR OFFICE IN THE DAYS AND WEEKS AHEAD ABOUT THESE ISSUES AS WELL.

WE APPRECIATE YOU Dr. JACKSON YOU GET THE LONGEST DRIVE AWARD FOR THE EVENING.

SO WE THANK YOU FOR MAKING THAT.

BECAUSE THAT IS EIGHT PLUS HOURS TOTAL.

WE APPRECIATE THAT AND WE APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU FOR BEING HERE.

IT'S BEEN A GOOD CONVERSATION.

WE HOPE YOU JOIN US NEXT MONDAY NIGHT AS WE DISCUSS KENTUCKY'S ECONOMY AND TAXES.

AND BE SURE YOU JOIN US EACH WEEKNIGHT AT 6:30 FOR KENTUCKY EDITION WE'LL HAVE MORE ON THE PASSING OF GOVERNOR BRERETON JONES TOMORROW AND WE'LL UPDATE YOU AS WE LEARN ABOUT SERVICES.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING "KENTUCKY TONIGHT" THIS EVENING I'M RENEE SHAW UNTIL I SEE YOU AGAIN, TAKE REALLY GOOD CARE.