CONTRARY: FIRST, LOOKING AHEAD TO WOMEN, IMPEACHMENT AND THE ELECTIONS.

THEN, THE b CALIFORNIA'S PUSH FOR MORE WOMEN IN TO LEADERSHIP POSITIONS CONSTITUTIONAL?

BEHIND THE HEADLINES: MINDFUL MASCULINITY.

RESHAPING HOW MEN AND WOMEN VIEW MALE BEHAVIOR.

>> Bonnie: HELLO, I'M BONNIE AND WOMEN VIEW MALE BEHAVIOR.

>> Bonnie: HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO b CONTRARY,b AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, WOMEN WEIGHING IN: AS CONGRESS HEADS BACK FOR THE NEW YEAR WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP'S IMPEACHMENT TRIAL WILL BEGIN IN THE SENATE.

WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THE COUNTRY IS SPLIT ON IMPEACHMENT BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE BREAKDOWN BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN THERE'S A GIANT GENDER GAP.

A CNN POLL FOUND 61 PERCENT OF WOMEN IN FAVOR OF IMPEACHMENT IN CONTRAST WITH 40 PERCENT OF MEN SUPPORTING IMPEACHMENT.

AND IT APPEARS THAT NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS IN THE SENATE THAT DIVIDE COULD PRODUCE AN HISTORIC GENDER GAP IN THE 2020 ELECTION.

AN ANALYST EXAMINING RECENT CNN POLLS FOUND AT LEAST A 25-POINT GAP IN MATCHUPS BETWEEN THE LEADING DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES AND TRUMP.

BUT WHEN IT'S TRUMP VERSUS VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN THE GENDER GAP JUMPS TO 34-PERCENT WHICH COMBINES BIDEN'S 24 POINT LEAD WITH WOMEN AND TRUMP'S 10 POINT LEAD WITH MEN..

SO, CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON, WILL WHITE WOMEN WITHOUT COLLEGE DEGREES WHO WENT FOR TRUMP IN 2016 BREAK OVER FINALLY AND GO FOR THE DEMOCRAT IN 2020?

>> GIVEN WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE LAST THREE YEARS, BEING A WHITE WOMAN WITHOUT A COLLEGE DEGREE SHOULD NOT KEEP YOU FROM FACTORING IN TRUMP'S REPUTATION FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT, NOT TO MENTION SEXISM BEFORE GOING TO THE POLLS THIS YEAR.

>> NO, THEY ARE GOING TO STICK WITH HIM.

WILL GET MORE OF THE COLLEGE-EDUCATED THAN YOU EXPECT.

÷¦ OLLEGE-EDUCATED THAN YOU >> Bonnie: WHAT PAUL IS SHOWING THAT, >> THE PULL OF DONATIONS.

WE ACTUALLY HAVE TRUMP RECEIVING MORE DONATIONS FROM SUBURBAN WOMEN THAN THE DEMOCRATS ARE.

>> NO, THEY WILL NOT SPLIT.

THEY'RE GOING TO STICK WITH HER HUSBAND'S AND STICK WITH DONALD TRUMP.

>> IT REALLY DEPENDS ON WHO THE DEMOCRATS ELECT.

IF IT'S JOE BIDEN, THEN, YEAH, HE COULD OVERLOOK THE LONGEST BULL MARKET IN HISTORY, OUR TAX CUTS WORKING OUT SPECTACULARLY, FOREIGN VICTORIES.

YOU COULD MAYBE OVERLOOK THOSE AND THINK A RETURN TO NORMALCY CAMPAIGN.

JOE BIDEN, IF RUNNING FOR THE THIRD TIME OF BARACK OBAMA'S PRESIDENCY, PEOPLE LIKED BARACK OBAMA.

IF IT'S ELIZABETH WARREN, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

>> Bonnie: BACK TO YOUR POINT, SINCE THEY ALREADY BREAKING TOWARDS WHAT HE'S LOST, MORE THAN 10 OR 15 POINTS, PERCENTAGE POINTS OF WHITE WOMEN WITHOUT COLLEGE EDUCATIONS.

SO THAT'S SORT OF AMAZING.

AT THIS POINT ANYWAY, AND OF COURSE NO PULSE MEAN ANYTHING RIGHT NOW AND EVEN THE DAY BEFORE THE ELECTION LAST TIME , POLLS MEANT ANYTHING.

BUT FOR THEM TO BREAK OVER, FROM, YOU KNOW, 15, 20 PERCENT, DOWN TO 5 PERCENT FOR TRUMP IS PRETTY AMAZING, IS IT NOT?

>> IT IS IF WE ARE MEASURING THIS POINT IN TIME.

IF WE LOOK AT THE VERY LAST ELECTION, 2018 ELECTION, WE DID NOT SEE THAT KIND OF FRAGMENTATION AMONG WHITE WOMEN WITHOUT COLLEGE DEGREES.

AND SO, I JUST REALLY CANNOT SEE THAT IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ÷¦ ND SO, I JUST REALLY CANNOT >> WAIT A MINUTE.

PEOPLE ARE BREAKING WITH THEIR OWN HUSBANDS.

THEY ARE BREAKING WITH THEIR FAMILIES.

ÃWE ARE BREAKING WITH THEIR SEEING MEN'S SUPPORT FOR TRUMP REMAIN STABLE.

THERE IS NO WAY YOU CANNOT ASSOCIATE THAT WITH SOMETHING ÷¦ HERE IS NO WAY YOU CANNOT >> Bonnie: COLLEGE UNEDUCATED WHITE MEN.

>> TALKING ABOUT COLLEGE UNEDUCATED.

THAT'S THE POOL WE ARE IN NOW.

THEY REMAINING WHERE THEY WERE AS IN THEIR FAMILIES, THE WOMEN HAVE SUBSTANTIALLY DECREASE THEIR NUMBERS, WHETHER THEY SHOW UP IN THE PULL, I DON'T THINK ANY OF US KNOW.

>> THEY ARE LYING TO THE POLLSTERS.

WE ARE FINE WITH WOMEN.

IT CAN BE FINE.

LET ME INE WITH WOMEN.

FINISH.

SUBURBAN WOMEN CONTINUE TO BE A CHALLENGE, BUT ULTIMATELY, WE SAW THIS BACK IN THE '80S.

RAEGAN IS A HUGE GENDER GAP AND WILL NEVER GO FOR HIM.

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

IT CLOSED AND BECAUSE WOMEN SEEK TWO THINGS: SECURITY AND JOBS FOR THE FAMILIES.

TRUMP WILL DELIVER BOTH.

>> Bonnie: ACTUALLY, THE WOMEN WITHOUT EDGECOLLEGE EDUCATIONS KNOW THAT THE NEW JOBS BEING CONCRETE CREATED HAVE NO VACATION PAY, NOTHING BUT MAYBE 40 HOURS GUARANTEED.

>> THAT'S NOT TRUE.

>> Bonnie: IT IS.

>> I JUST DID A STORY ABOUT THE ÃA HIGH-POWERED S. DOCUMENTARY ABOUT THE IMPACT OF CERTAIN FACTORS ON LOW PAY JOBS IN THIS COUNTRY.

THEY HAVE NO BENEFIT.

FIRST OF ALL, THEY ARE BEING BEATEN OUT BY IMMIGRANTS BOTH LEGAL AND ILLEGAL WHO COME IN AND WILL TAKE BELOW MINIMUM WAGE.

WHEN THEY GET THESE JOBS, IT'S HOURLY AND MAYBE NEXT WEEK YOU GET 30 HOURS.

THEY ARE NOT REAL JOBS.

>> AND THEY HAVE MORE NEW JOBS TO CHOOSE FROM OVER AND ABOVE THOSE.

>> WE ARE AT THE LOWEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IN HALF A CENTURY, AND THE GREATEST INCREASES IN WAGE AGE ARE COMING FROM THOSE WHO ARE THE LOWEST INCOME.

>> THAT'S WHERE ALL THE WEIGHT ÷¦ OWEST INCOME.

>> IN PLACES $50 AND AT OUR HAS BEEN INSTITUTED.

>> Bonnie: IN MORTON, MISSISSIPPI, WHERE THEY RAIDED A CHICKEN PROCESSING PLANT, THREE OF THEM, ACTUALLY, IN CENTRAL MISSISSIPPI THIS SUMMER, THEY TOOK OUT TO THE HISPANICS WHO WERE HERE ILLEGALLY.

IT WAS ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE NEW YORK TIMES.

I'M NOT MAKING THIS UP.

THE AFRICAN-AMERICANS WHO WERE MAKING FOUR DOLLARS AN HOUR IN THE RESTAURANTS TOOK THE CHICKEN PROCESSING JOBS BECAUSE THEY WERE PAYING $11 AN HOUR.

NO BENEFITS!

NO VACATION PAY!

NOTHING!

THESE ARE WHAT ARE PASSING FOR JOBS IN AMERICA TODAY AND IT'S WHY WE HAVE INCOME INEQUALITY.

>> AND THESE ARE BETTER JOBS THAN WE HAD AT ANY OTHER POINT AT ANY OTHER PLACE IN HUMAN HISTORY.

I THINK THIS IDEA THAT EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO X AMOUNT OF VACATION AND PAID FAMILY LEAVE AND EMPLOYER-SPONSORED HEALTH ÃIT'S A AND PAID FAMILY LEAVE LEVEL OF MODERN PRIVILEGE.

>> EVEN IF YOU FORGET ALL OF THAT, PEOPLE ARE ENTITLED TO A WAGE WHERE THEY CAN TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES AND THEIR CHILDREN.

RIGHT NOW, THE JOBS THAT ARE BEING PRODUCED AT THE LOWER INCOME SCALE, ESPECIALLY THE ONES THAT ARE REPLACEMENT JOBS FOR JOBS THAT HAVE DISAPPEARED, DON'T EVEN BEGIN TO MEET THOSE WAGE SCALES WHERE THEY WERE.

SO FAMILIES ARE NOT ABLE TO SUPPORT A FAMILY ON A 30 HOUR A WEEK MAKING 10 OR $11 AN HOUR.

THEY HAVE TO WORK TWO JOBS, MULTIPLE PEOPLE IN THE FAMILIES HAVE TO WORK TWO JOBS.

AND SO, THIS IDEA THAT SOMEHOW THOSE ARE JOBS THAT ARE GOING TO SUSTAIN THE ECONOMY, THEY SIMPLY ARE NOT WHAT I SEE FROM PEOPLE FROM WITHOUT A COLLEGE DEGREE WHO ARE BEING HIT HARDEST TO HAVE THE HIGHEST UNEMPLOYMENT NUMBERS, IF YOU TAKE EVERYBODY IN THE LABOR FORCE, MEANING EVERY ABLE-BODIED PERSON BETWEEN THE AGE OF 16o¤4, THERE ARE 45 MILLION OF THEM OUT OF THE WORKFORCE LONG-TERM.

AND THOSE I THINK ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SEEING THAT THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF THIS P EOPLE WHO ARE SEEING THAT THE >> WAIT, WAIT, WAIT.

[CROSS TALK] >> THAT'S NOT TRUE.

>> Bonnie: EVERYTHING I HAVE ÷¦ > THAT'S NOT TRUE.

>> A LOT OF WHAT YOU SAID IS ANECDOTAL.

>> Bonnie: IS NOT ANECDOTAL.

>> [CROSS TALK] >> IT'S NOT ANECDOTAL.

>> THE STATISTICS.

TWO THINGS: A LOT OF THEM ARE COMING BACK IN WHICH THEY WERE NOT DOING UNDER OBAMA.

THAT NUMBER HAS SHRUNK.

SECONDLY, MIDDLE CLASS AND LOWER MIDDLE CLASS, THE AVERAGE INCOME OF THE HOUSEHOLDS IS GONE UP BY $5000.

>> Bonnie: >> Bonnie: WHAT WAS THE WALL STREET MOVEMENT ABOUT?

WHAT'S ALL THIS TALK OF INCOME INEQUALITY ABOUT?

÷¦ HAT'S ALL THIS TALK OF INCOME >> IT'S TRUE THERE HAS BEEN A SLOW RISE IN WAGES.

>> WAGE INEQUALITY IS WHAT IS DRIVING THIS ECONOMY, THE TOP 10 PERCENT GET 90 PERCENT OF THE INCOME IN OUR ECONOMY.

YOU CANNOT SUSTAIN A SOCIETY LIKE THAT.

>> IF MY PAYCHECK IS GOING UP BY ONE FACTOR AND JEFF BEZOS IS GOING UP BY A FACTOR FIVE FOLDS GRADER, I DON'T MIND.

÷¦ OING UP BY A FACTOR FIVE FOLDS >> [CROSS TALK] ÷¦ > >> PEOPLE WHO ARE CREATING MORE JOBS THAN I HAVE ARE SEEING à > PEOPLE WHO ARE CREATING MORE [CROSS TALK] >> Bonnie: DO YOU THINK UNEDUCATED WHITE WOMEN LIVING IN LOW INCOME HOUSING, PERHAPS TRAILERS, OUR THINKING ABOUT à N LOW INCOME HOUSING, PERHAPS YOU ARE THINKING ON A MUCH HIGHER LEVEL.

>> SHOULD WE FOCUS ON THE BOTTOM LINE OF WHAT CAN SOMEONE'S PAYCHECK PURCHASE FOR THEM?

WE KNOW THIS ECONOMY HAS MADE THINGS CHEAPER, RELATIVE TO THE GROWTH RATES IN PREVIOUS ECONOMIES.

WE KNOW THAT MARKETS ARE DOING WELL WHICH IS GREAT BECAUSE 40 PERCENT OF AMERICANS HAVE PART OF THEIR RETIREMENT PLANS OR PART OF THEIR ASSETS IN THE STOCK MARKET.

WE KNOW THAT WE ARE IN A PERIOD OF CREATIVE DESTRUCTION, NOT BECAUSE THE IMMIGRANTS ARE STEALING OUR JOBS OR FREE TRADE BUT BECAUSE OF AUTOMATION.

80 PERCENT OF ALL MANUFACTURING JOBS LOST IN THE LAST 15 YEARS HAVE BEEN DUE TO AUTOMATION.

>> 60 PERCENT OF AMERICANS WHO DON'T HAVE THEIR MONEY IN THE STOCK MARKET BECAUSE THEY ARE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE INCOME SCALE ARE NOT SEEN THE BENEFITS OF THIS BURGEONING ECONOMY.

HE FACT IS WE CANNOT SUSTAIN AN ECONOMY WHERE THE GAPS ARE SO SUBSTANTIAL THAT THE BOTTOM IS JUST NOT MAKING IT.

>> Bonnie: LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE.ROM WOMEN VOTERS TO WOMEN IN THE BOARDROOM.

BONNIE SOT CALIFORNIA LAW MANDATING A QUOTA FOR WOMEN ON BOARDS OF DIRECTORS IS BEING CHALLENGED AS DISCRIMINATORY ON THE BASIS OF SEX.

THE LAW MANDATES EVERY COMPANY IN THE STATE MUST HAVE AT LEAST ONE FEMALE DIRECTOR SERVING 4 AT LEAST PART OF THE YEAR.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE WILL PUBLISH AN OFFICIAL LIST OF COMPANIES THAT FAILED TO COMPLY.

THOSE THAT DIDN'T WILL BE FINED $100,000 PER VIOLATION.

THE LAWSUIT IS BEING BROUGHT BY A MALE SHAREHOLDER WHO SAYS THE LAW INFRINGES ON HIS RIGHT TO CHOOSE THE BEST CANDIDATE.

>> Bonnie: ALL RIGHT.O IS A GOOD IDEA, DO YOU THINK?

WILL CALIFORNIA BE AHEAD OF THE NATION IN TERMS OF WOMEN ON BOARDS, >> HAVING WOMEN ON BOARDS IS GOOD FOR BUSINESS.

THEY SAID DURING THE CRASH OF 2008 THAT IF BOARD WOMAN HAD BEEN IN THE FINANCIAL CORPORATE BOARDS, WE WOULD NOT OF HAD THE CRASH BECAUSE THEY WOULD NOT HAVE MADE THE STUPID DECISIONS WITH DERIVATIVES AND OTHER INVESTING THAT GOT THEM IN TROUBLE.

I THINK IT CAN BE A GREAT THING.

IS IT DISCRIMINATORY?

THAT'S ODD.

YOU HAVE TO SEE IF ALL QUOTAS ARE DISCRIMINATORY AND OUTLAW THEM ALL.

>> BUT YOU BELONG TO THE PARTY THAT SAYS THAT ALL THE TIME.

>> I KNOW, I KNOW.

REPUBLICANS ARE NOT GENERALLY FOR QUOTAS.

YOU ASKED IF THEY WOULD BE GOOD, GOOD FOR BUSINESS.

YEAH.

>> WHETHER THEY ARE OR NOT, THEY MAY NOT BE CONSTITUTIONAL.

THAT'S WHY YOU ARE SEEING ÃAND I SAY T BE CONSTITUTIONAL.

THAT AS SOMEONE WHO BY THE WAY SERVED ON THREE CORPORATE BOARDS BEFORE I CAME TO CONGRESS.

HAD TO GET OFF THE MOMENT BEFORE I CAME TO CONGRESS.

THE NEED FOR WOMEN COULD NOT BE GREATER.

THE WAY THIS LAW IS STRUCTURED, AND SIX YEARS, HALF THE BOARD HAS TO BE MALE AND FEMALE MAY CAUSE ITS DEMISE RIGHT THERE.

>> THAT MAY BE CHALLENGING.

>> RIGHT THERE.

WHEN THEY START OFF NOW, MOST ARE IN COMPLIANCE BECAUSE YOU ONLY NEED ONE MORE FEMALE.

BUT ONCE THE ANTI-GOES UP, WE ÷¦ NLY NEED ONE MORE FEMALE.

>> Bonnie: BUT STILL, AFRICAN THE MOST RECENT DATA, BUT WE Ã > Bonnie: BUT STILL, AFRICAN LAST TIME I SAW FIVE YEARS AGO, THEY WERE 11 PERCENT OF U.S. COMPANIES THAT HAD ONE WOMAN ON THE BOARD.

à OMPANIES THAT HAD ONE WOMAN ON THE BIGGER THE COMPANY, THE BIGGER THE BOARDS THAT CAN BE 40 PEOPLE.

USUALLY 10 OR 15.

SO WITHOUT QUOTAS, HOW LONG ÃWOMEN HAVE BEEN AT THIS A LONG TIME NOW.

IT'S NOT LIKE THERE WAS A SCARCITY OF WOMEN WITH CREDENTIALS TO GET ON THESE BOARDS.

>> WELL, I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S CERTAINLY TRUE.

I THINK WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS WHETHER IT SURVIVES CONSTITUTIONALITY OR NOT, THE IDEA NEEDS TO SURVIVE.

AND I THINK CORPORATIONS, THE ONES THAT ARE SMART RECOGNIZE THAT BRINGING MORE WOMEN ONTO THEIR BOARDS, MORE WOMEN INTO ÃSO THEY ARE IN A PLACE THEY CAN GO ON TO BOARDS IS GOOD FOR THE COMPANY.

ÃREFLECT THE BOARDS IS GOOD FOR NATION.

SO IF CALIFORNIA IS ABLE TO DO THIS, IT WILL BECOME A BELLWETHER ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> I THINK TWO THINGS CAN BE TRUE: ONE, WOMEN SHOULD BE MORE ON BOARDS BECAUSE MEN NEED WOMEN AS MUCH AS WOMEN NEED MEN, THE GENDER BINARY EXISTS AND IT'S IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY IN A CORPORATE ENVIRONMENT HAVE DIFFERENT ENERGIES IN HOW YOU STRUCTURE A COMPANY.

ALSO, THIS IS TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY NOT THE ROLE IN THE STATE TO COME FORCE.

HOMELESSNESS IN CALIFORNIA INCREASED FROM 130,000 TO 150,000.OUSING PRODUCTION FELL BY 50,000.

CLIMATE CHANGE, WREAKING HAVOC ON THE STATE.

THE FACT THAT THESE ARE ALL ISSUES THAT THE STATE COULD BE FOCUSING ON WHAT THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE ALL MAKING MILLIONS AND TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ANYWAY ARE BEING A BIT MORE EQUITABLE WITH HOW THEY DISTRIBUTE THAT.

à EING A BIT MORE EQUITABLE WITH I MEAN, I SEE ALL YOUR POINTS.

BUT CALIFORNIA IS BEING CHALLENGED BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IN FEDERAL COURT BECAUSE IT PUSHED CLIMATE REGULATIONS WELL BEYOND WHERE WHERE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WANTS THEM EVEN FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

>> I'M NOT DEFENDING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

>> Bonnie: YOU ARE SAYING THEY ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING ON CLIMATE CHANGE.

>> THEY ARE SHUTTING DOWN ALL THEIR NUCLEAR REACTORS BECAUSE THEY ARE GATHERING GAVIN NEWSOM ÷¦ HEIR NUCLEAR REACTORS BECAUSE [CROSS TALK] >> THAT DOES NOTHING WITHOUT NUCLEAR NOTHING WITHOUT SUBSTANTIAL RESEARCHER JENNY FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

WITH THE STATE HAS EMPOWERED TO DO IS ENHANCE THE NUCLEAR REACTORS.

THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR SHUTTING THEM DOWN WAS GAVIN NEWSOM WHEN LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

>> I WANT TO GET BACK TO WHY IT IS WE NEED WOMEN ON CORPORATE BOARDS.

THE REASON IS BECAUSE CORPORATIONS EVERYDAY IN OUR LIVES ARE MAKING DECISIONS THAT IMPACT OUR LIVES SUBSTANTIALLY.

THEY SHOULD HAVE THE VIEWS AND VALUES OF WOMEN AS MORE THAN HALF OF THE COUNTRY THAT REFLECTED.

[CROSS TALK] >> Bonnie: IT ALWAYS USED TO AMAZE ME WHEN MEN WERE RUNNING COMPANIES LIKE AVON.

COME ON!

THAT'S A HUGE CORPORATION.

>> BONNIE, LOOK, LET'S GO TO A PRACTICAL REASON: 70 PERCENT OF THE CONSUMERS IN OUR COUNTRY ARE WOMEN.

>> DECISION-MAKERS.

>> THEY DO THE PURCHASING FOR THE HOUSEHOLD, FOR THE FAMILY.

IF WHO'S CORPORATIONS GET THEM IN ON THE GAME AT THE TOP OF THE CORPORATE BOARD.

>> THERE HAVE BEEN STUDIES SHOW CORPORATIONS THAT HAVE WOMEN ON THE BOARD DO BETTER.

THE FINANCIAL MARKET WOULD HAVE SURVIVED BETTER IN 2008 IF THEY HAD WOMEN ON THERE.

YOU HAVE THINGS LIKE BOARD ROOM BOUND AND CATALYSTS FOR YEARS TRY THROUGH PRIVATE MEANS TO GET THE WOMEN ON THE BOARD.

>> STILL TRY.

>>.

>> Bonnie: BEHIND THE HEADLINES: THE WAY WE SEE AND PERCEIVE GENDER IN THE UNITED STATES HAS UNDERGONE A TRANSFORMATION IN THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS.

LIZ PLANK IS THE AUTHOR OF b LOVE OF MEN: A NEW VISION FOR MINDFUL MASCULINITYb HOPING HER BOOK WILL HELP SHIFT THE CONVERSATION ABOUT MASCULINITY IN AMERICA.

>> I WROTE THIS BOOK FOR MEN.

AND I WROTE THIS BOOK ALSO FOR WOMEN SO THAT THEY CANNOT DO ALL THIS EMOTIONAL LABOR FOR THE MEN IN THEIR LIVES, BUT THAT THE MEN CAN TAKE ON THIS CONVERSATION AROUND MASCULINITY AND RUN WITH IT.

>> Bonnie: PLANK BEGAN WRITING HER BOOK IN 2016, RIGHT BEFORE DONALD TRUMP WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT.

SHE SAYS THAT HER INTERACTIONS WITH FEMALE TRUMP VOTERS PLAYED A ROLE IN SHAPING THE DIRECTION OF HER RESEARCH.

AND SO, I DECIDED TO GO AND SPEAK TO WOMEN AND SAY, SEVEN OUT OF 10 WOMEN HAVE AN UNFAVORABLE VIEW OF DONALD TRUMP.

WHAT WOULD YOU TELL TWO WOMEN TO VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP.

AND THIS ONE FEMALE TRUMP SUPPORTER LOOKED AT ME, AND SHE SAID, I THINK THAT SEVEN OUT OF 10 WOMEN HAVE AN UNFAVORABLE VIEW OF A LOT OF MEN.

THAT DIDN'T MAKE ME SAD FOR MY WOMEN BUT FOR WHAT MAN.

ND THAT'S WHEN I REALIZED HE'S GOING TO WIN, BECAUSE OUR STANDARD FOR MEN IS SO LOW, THAT A MAN LIKE DONALD TRUMP, WHO, IN MY OPINION, BUT I THINK OBJECTIVELY SPEAKING, CHECKS ALL OF THE BOXES OF THIS REALLY UNHEALTHY IDEALIZE MASCULINITY THAT WE HAVE IN OUR SOCIETY.

THAT'S WHO WE VIEW AS A STRONG MAN.

>> Bonnie: IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND HOW MEN VIEW THEIR MASCULINITY, AND THE FACTORS THAT SHAPE MASCULINITY, PLANK INTERVIEWED MEN FROM VARIOUS WALKS OF LIFE.

ONE COMMON THEME: MOST OF THE MEN WAS SHAME.

>> Liz Plank: EVERY MAN THAT I INTERVIEWED FOR THE BOOK REMEMBERS THE FIRST TIME THAT THEY WERE CALLED WEAK, b YOU'RE RUNNING LIKE A WOMAN, YOU'RE, YOU'RE ACTING LIKE A GIRL.

AND SO THEY ARE HUMILIATED FROM A VERY YOUNG AGE WHEN THEY ACT OUTSIDE OF THIS MALE CODE WHEN THEY ACT OUTSIDE OF THE BOUNDS OF IT.

>> Bonnie: PLANK SAYS THIS SHAME MEN EXPERIENCE NOT ONLY NEGATIVELY IMPACTS THE WAY THEY FORM THEIR GENDER IDENTITY AND IDEAS OF MASCULINITY, BUT SOCIETY TOO.

>> Liz Plank: WHAT I'M SEEING IN THE DATA, WHAT I'M SEEING IN THE RESEARCH AND THE REPORTING AND WHERE WE'RE GOING AS A COUNTRY, BUT ALSO ACROSS THE WORLD IS IT IS A MAN CRISIS, ALL OF THESE PROBLEMS ARE CONNECTED, THE SKYROCKETING SUICIDE RATES IN STATES THAT ARE RURAL WHERE THERE'S A LOT OF ACCESS TO GUNS, THERE'S A DIRECT CORRELATION.

WE ARE SEEING EVEN IN THE YOU KNOW, THE RISE OF THE ALT-RIGHT, OF WHITE SUPREMACY OF TERRORIST GROUPS.

THEY ARE USING PROPAGANDA AGAINST VULNERABLE MEN, ISOLATED MEN, AND THEY KNOW IT.

>> Bonnie: BUT PLANK ARGUES THAT MEN DON'T NEED TO STOP BEING MASCULINE IN ORDER TO SOLVE THESE ISSUES.

INSTEAD, IT'S TIME TO CHANGE THE WAY SOCIETY LOOKS AT MASCULINITY.

>> Liz Plank: I THINK THE IDEALIZED NOTIONS OF MASCULINITY IS A GLOBAL CRISIS.

AND THAT'S WHY I REALLY WANTED TO APPROACH THIS IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

MASCULINITY, IT'S ALWAYS VERY NEGATIVE.

I THINK MASCULINITY IS ACTUALLY THE SOLUTION.

WHAT IS WRONG IS THE WAY THAT WE UNDERSTAND MASCULINITY AND TEACH MASCULINITY.

>> Bonnie: IT WON'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT, BUT RE-SHAPING THE WAY WE PERCEIVE MASCULINITY AS A SOCIETY WON'T JUST BENEFIT MEN, BUT EVERYONE, ACCORDING TO PLANK.

>> Liz Plank: I WANT US TO HAVE A MORE CONSCIOUS APPROACH TO THIS CONVERSATION AROUND GENDER.

I'M NOT INTERESTED IN TELLING MEN HOW TO BE MEN AND NOT INTERESTED IN TELLING WOMEN HOW TO BE WOMEN, I'M NOT INTERESTED IN TELLING ANYONE HOW THEY SHOULD LEAD THEIR LIVES.

I WANT EVERYONE TO HAVE MORE FREEDOM TO FULLY EXPRESS THEMSELVES, REGARDLESS OF THEIR GENDER.

>> Bonnie: SO, DONNA EDWARDS, DO YOU THINK THAT IT WILL WORK TO JUST GIVE PEOPLE MORE FREEDOM TO BE WHO THEY WANT TO BE IN THAT WILL GET RID OF THE TOXIC MASCULINITY THAT WE HAVE?

I MEAN, THE VIOLENCE, THE WORSHIPING OF RIDICULOUSLY OVERBLOWN MUSCLES, THAT SORT OF THING?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

DON'T THINK IT'S REDUCED TO SUCH A, YOU KNOW, SORT OF SIMPLE SOLUTION, IN FACT.

IT IS ABOUT HOW WE GROW OUR BOYS AS WELL.

I'M THE MOTHER OF A BOY.

I CAN REMEMBER AS A YOUNG GIRL, DEFINITELY NOT GROWING LIKE A GIRL, NOT RUNNING LIKE A GIRL, COMPETING AGAINST THE BOYS.

SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE TAUGHT SOME OF OUR GIRLS AS WELL SO WE COULD BE STRONGER AND PLAY IN A BOY'S WORLD AND DEMAND'S WORLD.

IT GOES BACK TO THE CULTURAL CHANGE, FRANKLY, THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THROUGH THIS ENTIRE SHOW, WHETHER IT'S IN POLITICS, CORPORATE BOARD ROOMS OR THE WORKPLACE.

>> PART OF IT IS HARDWIRED, THOUGH.

MEN ARE MORE HARDWIRED FOR CONFLICT AND WOMEN ARE GOOD BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR BECAUSE THE MEN WERE SO EMASCULATED, SWEDISH WOMEN WERE IMPORTING LATIN MEN BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT FIND ANY MANLY MEN TO MARRY.

>> I DON'T THINK THAT'S A DANGER.

I DO THINK THAT THERE IS A REAL ISSUE HERE.

NOTHING IS MORE BASIC IN EVERY SOCIETY AND THE DIFFERENCE FROM SOCIETY TO SOCIETY AND HOW TO BE A MAN AND HOW TO BE A WOMAN.

SO TRY UNRAVELING THAT EASILY.

AND YOU WILL FIND THAT IT WILL TAKE MEN ROLE MODELS, AND BY THAT I MEAN MAN AT THE TOP, ACTING LIKE OTHER THAN STRONGMEN IN ORDER TO BEGIN TO UNRAVEL THIS, BECAUSE YOU WILL LOOK AT THEM AND YOU WILL SEE THAT'S HOW I A.M.

SUPPOSED TO BE.

IT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL TO HAVE A PRESIDENT MORE LIKE BARACK OBAMA AT THE TOP, FAMILY MEMBER WITH HIS DAUGHTERS, A LOVING LIFE THAN TO HAVE DONALD TRUMP OF THREE WIVES AND EVERY DAY GOING AT PEOPLE IN THE MOST OUTRAGEOUSLY OBNOXIOUS WAYS, TURNING PEOPLE OFF, TURNING OFF MEN, TURNING OFF WOMEN.

SO I DO THINK THE ROLE MODELS FOR THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP, THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE PRESIDENT, THEY ARE THE PEOPLE YOU COME IN CONTACT WITH.

THEY NEED TO HELP BRING THE CHANGE.

THIS CANNOT GO FROM THE BOTTOM UP.

>> I MEAN, I DO AGREE WITH THE NOTE ABOUT OBAMA, BUT THIS PROBLEM DID NOT BEGIN IN 2016.

DONALD TRUMP IS A PRODUCT OF A CULTURE THAT THE PRESIDENT CELEBRATE ITS DELICIOUSNESS, ADULTERY, PROMISCUITY, SHALLOWNESS.

>> HE'S A GUY FROM QUEENS.

÷¦ HALLOWNESS.

>> Bonnie: THAT'S NOT FAIR TO EVERYONE ELSE FROM QUEENS!

>> HAVE THE PRESIDENT OF MY LIFETIME HAVE LOCALLY AND FREQUENTLY CHEATED ON THEIR LIVES.

THOSE ON A GOOD MODEL OF MASCULINITY.

BUT I THINK IN A CORRECT AND NOBLE GOALS OF FEMINISM, A LOT OF WHICH I AGREE WITH ITS PROGRESS, I THINK INSTEAD OF LETTING WOMEN HAVE THESE STANDARDS AND FREEDOMS AND RESPONSIBILITIES THAT MEN HAD IT INSTEAD OF BRINGING UP BOTH, THEY ARE JUST KIND OF RELAXATION OF YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE SO MUCH RESPONSIBILITY TO YOUR SPOUSE, YOU DON'T NEED TO FOCUS ON BUILDING A FAMILY.

THERE IS SO MUCH LESS CULTURALLY AND NOW THESE MEN ARE SINGLE, SEXLESS, JOBLESS AND ALONE, MRS. LENA PARTS OF THE COUNTRY YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

AND THAT CAN BE BLAMED ON A LOT OF THINGS: THE GOVERNMENT, RENDERING FATHERS VERY USELESS WHEN IT COMES TO A LOT OF HOMES, COULD BE RENDERED BY MEN BEING POOR ROLE MODELS FOR THEMSELVES.

>> Bonnie: 15 SECONDS TO EXPLAIN.

>> IT'S HARD TO RESPOND, BUT HERE'S THE THING, WE DO NEED A SERIOUS CULTURAL CHANGE WHEN IT COMES TO MEN BEING PART OF THE ÃOUR PARTNERS IN REDEFINING IT AND RE-EXAMINING MASCULINITY.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE SAME BOOK WRITTEN BY A MAN THAT MAN CAN READ AND LOOK UP TO ABOUT HOW TO REDEFINE MASCULINITY.

>> Bonnie: I'M SURE IS OUT THERE SOMEWHERE.

WHO WILL LOOK FOR IT.

THAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE, PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK, TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

YOU AGREE OR THINK, TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR SEE AN ONLINE EPISODE OF "TO THE CONTRARY," PLEASE VISIT OUR PBS WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.