>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

GAZA'S HUNGER CRISIS DEEPENS WHILE ISRAELI FIRE KILLS DOZENS MORE AID SEEKERS, ACCORDING TO THE HEALTH MINISTRY THERE.

WE HAVE THE DETAILS ON THIS DESPERATE SITUATION.

>>> ALSO, A CEASE-FIRE DEAL ENDS DAYS OF FIGHTING IN SYRIA, BUT WILL IT HOLD?

"THE ATLANTIC'S" REPORTER JOINS ME FROM DAMASCUS TO EXPLAIN WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THE NATION'S FRAGILE NEW LEADERSHIP.

>>> A MEETING AT THE LEVEL OF LEADERS IS NEEDED TO TRULY ENSURE PEACE, A LASTING PEACE.

UKRAINE IS READY FOR SUCH A MEETING.

>> BUT IS RUSSIA?

AS PUTIN STEPS UP HIS SUMMER OFFENSIVE, I SPEAK TO MILITARY ANALYST FRANZ-STEFAN GADY.

AND LATER -- >> 30 TO 35% OF AMERICANS REPORT AT LEAST TEMPORARILY SOME FORMS, SOME FORM OF INSOMNIA.

>> WHY CAN'T AMERICANS SLEEP?

"THE ATLANTIC" STAFF WRITER LAYS OUT THE SOLUTIONS FOR INSOMNIACS AND EXPLAINS WHY SHE BELIEVES THIS IS A PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY.

>>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

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AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M IN NEW YORK SITTING IN.

THE PEOPLE OF GAZA ARE FACING AN IMPOSSIBLE CHOICE RIGHT NOW TRYING TO SURVIVE STARVATION OR RISK THEIR LIVES TO FIND FOOD.

ON SUNDAY, MORE THAN 70 PEOPLE WERE KILLED BY ISRAELI GUNFIRE WHILE TRYING TO ACCESS FOOD IN ONE OF THE DEADLIEST DAYS FOR AID SEEKERS YET, ACCORDING TO THE GAZA HEALTH MINISTRY WHICH SAYS MORE THAN 1,000 PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED WHILE TRYING TO RECEIVE AID SINCE LATE MAY.

THE IDF SAYS IT IS INVESTIGATING THE LATEST INCIDENT.

NOW, 25 NATIONS INCLUDING THE U.K., CANADA AND FRANCE HAVE UNITED TO CONDEMN WHAT THEY CALL THE, QUOTE, DRIP FEEDING OF AID AND THE INHUMANE KILLING OF CIVILIANS AND TO APPEAL FOR AN END TO THE WAR.

FOR MANY, IT IS ALREADY TOO LATE AS PAULA HANCOCKS REPORTS.

A WARNING, THIS REPORT CONTAIN SPLS DISTURBING IMAGES.

>> Reporter: THE 4-YEAR-OLD WAS DIAGNOSED WITH MALNUTRITION.

MALNUTRITION HAS CAUSED HER TO SUFFER FROM A DISABILITY, HADDER MOTHER SAYS.

HER HEALTH WAS GOOD BEFORE THE WAR BUT THERE'S NOTHING TO STRENGTHEN HER.

NO MILK IN THE HOSPITALS OR PHARMACIES.

SUNDAY, SHE BECAME THE LATEST CHILD IN GAZA TO DIE OF HUNGER.

HER SKELETAL BODY LAID OUT ON A SLAB OF STONE, PAINFUL PROOF OF THE FAMINE THE U.N. AND OTHERS HAVE WARNED ABOUT.

IT IS SHOCKING.

IT SHOULD NOT BE SURPRISING.

IN THE SPACE OF 24 HOURS, 18 DEATHS WERE CAUSED BY FAMINE, ACCORDING TO THE MINISTRY OF HEALTH IN GAZA.

YASIR WAS WAITING AT THIS SOUP KITCHEN SINCE 6:00 A.M., DESPERATE THE TAKE SOMETHING HOME TO HIS FAMILY OF 12.

FLOUR IS EXPENSIVE, HE SAYS.

EVERYTHING IS EXPENSIVE.

WHERE CAN WE GET FOOD FROM?

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'LL DO IN THE END.

EAT EACH OTHER?

WHEN HIS TURN COMES, THE AMOUNT POURED INTO HIS BOWL IS MINIMAL.

HE WALKS THE FOUR KILOMETERS BACK HOME WHEN HIS WIFE SEES HOW LITTLE IS IN THE POT, SHE STARTS CRYING.

IS THIS ENOUGH FOR 12 PEOPLE, SHE ASKS?

IS IT ENOUGH FOR A WOMAN WHO IS 7 MONTHS PREGNANT?

EVEN A 1-YEAR-OLD CHILD WOULDN'T BE SATISFIED BY THIS.

POURING THE WATERY SOUP INTO ONE BOWL, THE FAMILY EATS TOGETHER.

THE FATHER ALLOWS HIMSELF JUST ONE SPOONFUL, LEAVING THE REST FOR HIS CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN.

AFTER THIS, HE SAYS HE WILL GO TO ANOTHER SOUP KITCHEN TO SEE IF HE CAN KEEP STARVATION AT BAY FOR ONE MORE DAY.

ISRAEL SAYS THE MILITARY IS WORKING TO ALLOW AND FACILITATE THE TRANSFER OF HUMANITARIAN AID INTO GAZA, INCLUDING FOOD, ADDING THERE ARE TRUCKS YET TO BE PICKED UP BY AID GROUPS.

THE U.N. SAYS ISRAEL OFTEN DENIES PERMISSION, OR APPROVES ROUTES TOO DANGEROUS TO TRAVEL.

THOUSANDS RISK THEIR LIVES EVERY DAY FOR FOOD.

AT LEAST 73 PEOPLE WERE KILLED SUNDAY BY ISRAELI GUNFIRE WHILE TRYING TO ACCESS AID ACCORDING TO THE PALESTINIAN HEALTH MINISTRY.

THE IDF SAYS IT, QUOTE, FIRED WARNING SHOTS IN ORDER TO REMOVE AN IMMEDIATE THREAT POSED TO THEM.

IT CAST DOUBT ON THE DEATH TOLL.

THE U.N. SAYS ACCESSING HELP HAS BECOME A DEATH TRAP.

THE HUNGER CRISIS HAS REACHED NEW LEVELS OF DESPERATION.

HOSPITAL OFFICIALS SAY THEY'RE SEEING AN UNPRECEDENTED NUMBER OF STARVING CITIZENS ARRIVING AT EMERGENCY DEPARTMENTS.

A MAN-MADE CATASTROPHE THAT HAS BEEN CONTINUOUSLY WARNED ABOUT.

NO ONE CAN SAY THEY DIDN'T SEE THIS COMING.

>> OUR THANKS TO PAULA HANCOCKS FOR THAT INCREDIBLY DISTURBING AND IMPORTANT REPORT.

FOR MORE ON THE SITUATION IN GAZA, LET'S BRING IN JEREMY DIAMOND IN TEL AVIV.

YOU AND I SPOKE AND WE SAID SCENES LIKE THIS HAVE BECOME ALL TOO FAMILIAR AND ALSO REPORTING CIVILIANS BEING KILLED AS THEY'VE AMASSED TO GATHER FOOD OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS, IN PARTICULAR BEING INJURED, BEING STAMPEDED, BEING SHOT AT AND KILLED.

WHAT ARE OFFICIALS SAYING IN RESPONSE TO THESE CONTINUOUS HEADLINES?

>> WELL, LISTEN, WHAT IS SO DEVASTATING ABOUT THE HUMANITARIAN SITUATION IN GAZA RIGHT NOW IS NOT JUST THE STARVATION THAT WE ARE SEEING, THE LACK OF SUFFICIENT FOOD AND MEDICAL SUPPLIES AND BASIC NECESSITIES, SPEAKING WITH THE GAZA STRIP, BUT ALSO THE VIOLENCE THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE NEAR THESE AID DISTRIBUTION POINTS WITH NEAR DAILY OCCURRENCES OF ISRAELI TROOPS OPENING FIRE ON CROWDS OF HUNGRY PALESTINIANS TRYING TO MAKE IT TO THESE AID SITES.

WHEREAS, YOU KNOW, A MONTH AND A HALF AGO, WHEN THESE SHOOTINGS FIRST BEGAN, WE HAD DENIALS FROM THE ISRAELI MILITARY AND, YOU KNOW, WE DID AN INVESTIGATION AT THE TIME THAT SHOWED THAT IT WAS VERY LIKELY THE ISRAELI MILITARY THAT HAD OPENED FIRE.

NOW WE ARE IN A SITUATION WHERE THE MILITARY REALLY DOESN'T EVEN DENY THAT THIS IS TAKING PLACE.

THEY QUIBBLE WITH THE FIGURES OF DEATHS TAKING PLACE.

THEY REFER TO THE SHOTS THEY'RE FIRING AT CROWDS AS WARNING SHOTS.

THEY EFFECTIVELY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEY ARE ON A REGULAR BASIS OPENING FIRE ON THESE CROWDS OF PEOPLE TRYING TO APPROACH THESE AID DISTRIBUTION SITES.

AND WE ARE NOW SEEING HOW MUCH THIS IS LEADING TO GROWING ISOLATION FOR ISRAEL ON THE WORLD STAGE AS A NUMBER OF WESTERN COUNTRIES NOW LED BY THE UNITED KINGDOM, FRANCE, CANADA, YOU HAVE A NUMBER OF OTHER COUNTRIES, INCLUDING NORWAY, SWEDEN, ALSO CHIMING IN ON THIS SAYING ISRAEL IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS HUMANITARIAN CRISIS IN GAZA WHICH THEY SAY IS REACHING NEW DEPTHS.

THEY BLAME THIS AID DISTRIBUTION MODEL THAT IS RUN BY THE GAZA HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION, BUT EFFECTIVELY STEMMED FROM IDEAS FROM INSIDE OF ISRAEL.

AND THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS INHUMANE KILLING OF PALESTINIANS TRYING TO REACH THOSE AID DISTRIBUTION SITES.

THE ONLY THING THAT WILL CHANGE ANY OF THIS AT THIS POINT, IT SEEMS, IS IF A CEASE-FIRE DEAL CAN INDEED BE REACHED.

>> IT WAS LAST MONTH THE ISRAELI MILITARY THAT THEY WOULD CHANGE THE WAY IT OPERATES AND ADD SIGNS AND FENCING TO AVOID SOME OF THESE SCENES.

IN PARTICULAR, AROUND THE GAZA HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION FOOD DISTRIBUTION SITES.

NOT SURE IF ANY OF THAT HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED AS OF YET.

I WANT TO ASK YOU BEFORE WE GET TO CEASE-FIRE TALKS ABOUT THE NEW MILITARY PRAKS THAT THE IDF HAS EMBARKED UPON IN GAZA.

THE FIRST TIME THEY'VE BEEN THERE.

THIS AS THE CEASE-FIRE TALKS ARE ONGOING.

WHAT MESSAGE IS THIS SENDING?

IS THIS BASED ON ANY INTELLIGENCE ABOUT POTENTIAL HOSTAGE WHERE ABOUTS?

OR IS ISRAEL PUTTING MORE PRESSURE ON HAMAS TO AGREE TO A DEAL NOW?

>> YEAH.

THIS IS ONE OF THE AREAS OF GAZA WHERE WE HAVEN'T PREVIOUSLY SEEN GROUND OPERATIONS, AND TODAY, THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS SIGHTINGS OF ISRAELI TANKS IN THIS AREA.

IT SEEMS TO BE YET ANOTHER EFFORT BY THE ISRAELIS TO TRY TO PUT FURTHER PRESSURE ON THESE NEGOTIATIONS, TO GET HAMAS TO AGREE TO THE LATEST CEASE-FIRE PROPOSAL ON THE TABLE.

BUT THERE ARE ALSO CONCERNS FROM THE FAMILY OF HOSTAGES ABOUT THESE OPERATIONS.

IT'S LONG BEEN BELIEVED THAT ONE OF THE REASONS WHY ISRAELI TANKS AND TROOPS HAVEN'T ROLLED INTO THIS PART OF CENTRAL GAZA WAS BECAUSE THAT COULD BE WHERE SOME ISRAELI HOSTAGES ARE HELD, AND THAT HAVING ISRAELI TROOPS IN THAT AREA COULD PUT THE HOSTAGES IN DANGER.

IT WAS JUST LESS THAN A YEAR AGO THAT A HAMAS EXECUTED SIX ISRAELI HOSTAGES BECAUSE ISRAELI TROOPS HAD CLOSED IN ON THAT AREA AND WERE APPROACHING AND HAMAS FEARED THEY WOULD BE CAPTURED AND CHOSE TO KILL THEM INSTEAD.

WE HEARD TODAY FROM THE HOSTAGES AND MISSING FAMILIES FORUM WHICH EXPRESSED CONCERN ABOUT THE LATEST MOVE AND CALLED ON THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT TO EXPLAIN HOW THIS LATEST OFFENSIVE WOULD NOT PUT THE HOSTAGES IN DANGER.

>> QUICKLY, CAN YOU GIVE US AN UPDATE ON THESE CEASE-FIRE HOSTAGE NEGOTIATION TALKS HAPPENING NOW?

>> WELL, WHEREAS LAST WEEK, A LOT OF THE FOCUS WAS ON ISRAEL, ON THE PRESSURE THAT THE UNITED STATES WAS BRINGING TO BEAR ON ISRAEL TO DROP ITS OBJECTIONS TO WITHDRAWING ISRAELI TROOPS FROM A KEY CORRIDOR IN THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE GAZA STRIP, THAT HAS NOW HAPPENED.

ISRAEL HAS INDEED WITHDRAWN THOSE OBJECTIONS.

WILL WITHDRAW TROOPS IF IT GOES THROUGH FROM THAT CORRIDOR IN SOUTHERN GAZA.

NOW I'M TOLD THAT THE FOCUS IS ON HAMAS.

IT HAS BEEN NEARLY A WEEK SINCE THE UPDATED CEASE-FIRE PROPOSAL WAS SENT TO HAMAS BY THE MEDIATORS, AND WE ARE NOW STILL WAITING FOR A RESPONSE FROM HAMAS.

I'M ALSO TOLD BY TWO SOURCES FAMILIAR WITH THE NEGOTIATIONS THAT HAMAS'S LEADER OUTSIDE THE GAZA STRIP WHO HAS BEEN THE KEY NEGOTIATOR FOR HAMAS THROUGHOUT THIS ENTIRE WAR, THAT HE HAS SAID PRIVATELY THAT HE IS INCLINED TO RESPOND POSITIVELY TO THIS LATEST PROPOSAL, BUT HE IS WAITINGER TO A RESPONSE FROM HAMAS'S LEADERS IN GAZA.

IT IS THE LACK OF RESPONSE FROM THE LEADERS WHICH SEEMS TO BE HOLDING UP A POTENTIAL DEAL AT THIS MOMENT.

IT'S NOT CLEAR IF THAT'S DUE TO A DIFFICULTY OF COMMUNICATIONS OR RESERVATIONS ON THE PART OF THE HAMAS LEADERS INSIDE GAZA.

THEIR AGREEMENT IS INDEED CRITICAL BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE THE ONES TO IMPLEMENT THIS ON THE GROUND.

THE SOURCES I HAVE TALKED TO SAID IF THE LEADERS DO RESPOND POSITIVELY TO THIS LATEST PROPOSAL, THEY BELIEVE THAT A DEAL COULD QUICKLY FOLLOW THEREAFTER.

>> CAN'T COME SOON ENOUGH.

JEREMY DIAMOND IN TEL AVIV.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>> TO ANOTHER FRAGILE CEASE-FIRE IN SYRIA WHICH APPEARS TO BE HOLDING AFTER A WEEK OF CLASHES THAT LEFT HUNDREDS DEAD IN THE SOUTHERN CITY OF SUWAYDA.

SYRIAN FORCES INTERVENED IN AN ATTEMPT TO QUELL THE VIOLENCE BETWEEN DRUZE GROUPS AND BEDOUIN TRIBES WHICH ONLY ESCALATED FURTHER, PROMPTING ISRAEL TO CARRY OUT AIR STRIKES ON DAMASCUS IN WHAT IT CLAIMED WAS AN EFFORT TO PROTECT THE DRUZE.

IT PRESENTS PERHAPS THE BIGGEST TEST SO FAR FOR SYRIA'S NEW PRESIDENT AHMED AL-SHARAA.

IBRAHIM JOINS ME NOW.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.

AS WE NOTE, YOU ARE IN DAMASCUS.

IT IS SEVEN MONTHS SINCE THE AHMED AL-SHARAA INCOMING WITH HIS GOVERNMENT.

A BIG TEST FOR AL-SHARAA.

THE LAST TIME WE SAW SECTARIAN VIOLENCE WAS IN MARCH.

NOW WE HAVE REPORTS OF HUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS KILLED IN SUWAYDA.

WHAT IS THE UPDATE?

HOW IN YOUR VIEW, LONG LASTING, CAN THE CEASE-FIRE BE?

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

THESE CEASE-FIRES ARE ONLY HOLDING FOR A FEW HOURS AND SOMETIMES SHORTER THAN THAT.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO HIGHLIGHT THAT THE ONGOING FIGHTING INSIDE SYRIA IS HAPPENING ALSO AT DIFFERENT PARTS IN THE GOVERNORS OF SUWAYDA WHERE THE DRUZE ARE IN SOUTHERN SYRIA.

SO SOME PLACES THE CEASE-FIRE IS HOLDING.

IN OTHER PLACES, IT HOLDS FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS AND THEN IT IS BREACHED AGAIN.

AND WE ARE WATCHING HOW THESE EVENTS WILL UNFOLD.

TO THE OTHER SECTION OF YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE BIGGER PICTURE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IS SYRIA.

THIS VIOLENCE IS THE, NOT ONLY DISTURBING, ALSO REVEALING A LOT ABOUT THE INTERNAL DYNAMICS INSIDE SYRIA.

IT SHOWS ALSO HOW FRAGILE, NOT ONLY THE CEASE-FIRES ARE, THE DAILY ONES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT THE WHOLE TRANSITION INSIDE SYRIA.

NOW THERE ARE MANY QUESTION MARKS ABOUT THE ABILITY OF THE SYRIAN GOVERNMENT AND SYRIA AS A SOCIETY AND ALSO AS MANY NEIGHBORS OF SYRIA, ISRAEL AND OTHER REGIONAL PLAYERS.

IF ALL OF THEM ARE CAPABLE OF TAKING SYRIA INTO A MORE STABLE AND PEACEFUL PLACE.

>> AS IT RELATES TO SUWAYDA, WE KNOW THIS BEGAN WITH CLASHES BETWEEN THE BEDOUINS AND THE DRUZE COMMUNITY.

IT WAS THE SYRIAN FORCES THAT THEN GOT INVOLVED.

FOR SOME REPORTS, ONLY EXACERBATED THE SITUATION.

HOW COMPLICIT ARE THE SYRIAN ARMED FORCES IN THIS LATEST ROUND OF VIOLENCE?

ARE THEY ACTUALLY TRYING TO QUELL IT?

WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT AL-SHARAA'S STANDING AND HIS HOLD OVER THE COUNTRY?

>> THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION AND A VERY DIFFICULT QUESTION TO ANSWER.

BECAUSE ALSO, THE GOVERNMENT IN DAMASCUS, THEY DON'T REALLY CONTROL ALL THEIR FIGHTERS.

EVEN IF THE LEADERSHIP WANTS TO CONTROL THEM, THAT IS A BIG QUESTION IF THEY CAN.

AND THAT'S ALSO ANOTHER BIG QUESTION MARK NEXT TO THE ABILITY OF THE GOVERNMENT TO ACTUALLY BE THE GOVERNMENT ACROSS SYRIA.

BUT THEY ARE VERY LEGITIMATE REPORTS.

THAT IS MANY PARTS AND MANY GROUPS AND MANY FIGHTERS THAT BELONGED TO THE GOVERNMENT RANKS.

THEY'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN THESE VIOLATIONS AND THIS KILLING AGAINST THE DRUZE IN THE SOUTH AND ALSO AGAINST THEM.

IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO HAVE A BLANKET DESCRIPTION ON THE GOVERNMENT TO SAY THEY ARE ACTUALLY PART OF THIS PROBLEM OR THEY ARE THE ONES WE SHOULD BLAME, OR THEY ARE INNOCENT.

I THINK ALL SIDES IN THIS VIOLENCE EVENT, THEY BEAR SOME RESPONSIBILITY.

CERTAINLY THE GOVERNMENT BEARS THE BIGGEST PART OF RESPONSIBILITY BECAUSE THEY ASSUME THIS GOVERNMENT AND THEY SAY WE CAN MOVE SYRIA INTO A MORE PEACEFUL PLACE.

THAT WAS THE PROMISE TO THE REGIONAL PLAYERS AND ALL OF THAT IS BEING TESTED NOW.

>> HE PROMISED TO PROTECT ALL MINORITIES IN THE COUNTRY AND IT IS PROVING TO BE A VERY, PERHAPS, AMBITIOUS PROMISE AT THAT, NO MATTER HOW DETERMINED HE IS TO HONOR THAT PLEDGE.

U.S.

ENVOY TOM BARAK WITH THE AP SAID THE KILLING, THE REVENGE, THE MASSACRES ON BOTH SIDES ARE INTOLERABLE, BUT THAT THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT OF SYRIA IN HIS VIEW HAS CONDUCTED THEMSELVES AS BEST AS THEY CAN AS A NASCENT GOVERNMENT WITH VERY FEW RESOURCES TO ADDRESS THE MULTIPLICITY OF ISSUES THAT ARISE IN TRYING TO BRING A DIVERSE SOCIETY TOGETHER.

HE WENT ON TO SAY SYRIAN FORCES, IF THERE IS EVIDENCE THEY COMMITTED CRIMES, SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

THE BIGGEST TAKEAWAY IS FROM THE U.S. POLICY, THERE IS NO PLAN B TO AL-SHARAA.

HOW IS THAT BEING INTERPRET READ?

>> USUALLY WE'RE ASKED ABOUT SYRIA, THIS IS PART OF THE REFLECTION OF SYRIA.

EVEN INTERNET, ELECTRICITY, IS ONE TO TWO HOURS A DAY AND ALL OF THAT REFLECTS ON THE TRANSITION AND THE ABILITY OF SOCIETY AND GOVERNMENT.

FOR THE QUESTION ON THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, I THINK THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IS VERY WORRIED ABOUT WHERE THINGS ARE GOING BECAUSE IT REVEALED THE FRAGILITY OF THE TRANSITION AT LARGE INSIDE SYRIA, BUT IT ALSO SHOWS THAT PROBABLY IT IS TIME FOR THE UNITED STATES ALSO TO PAUSE A LITTLE BIT AND REASSESS THE POLICY.

NOT THE GENERAL POLICY TO GIVE SYRIA A CHANCE TO SUPPORT THE TRANSITION.

I THINK THAT'S ABSOLUTELY CORRECT AND IN THE CORRECT DIRECTION.

BUT ABOUT THE TOOLS AND THE STRATEGY.

LIKE HOW CAN THE UNITED STATES HELP SYRIANS REGENERATE FOR THE GOVERNMENT, AND ALSO TO BUILD THE MODEL OF POWER SHARING INSIDE SYRIA THAT COULD ACTUALLY HELP SYRIANS STOP THE CYCLE OF VIOLENCE.

>> HOW IS ISRAEL'S ROLE IN THIS, AN UNPRECEDENTED NATURE, INTERVENING HERE?

ISRAEL SAYS THEY'RE DOING IT TO PROTECT THE DRUZE MINORITY.

THEY HAVE A VERY IMPORTANT DRUZE COMMUNITY IN THE COUNTRY ITSELF.

BUT MANY ARE INTERPRETING THIS AS ISRAEL REALLY FLEXING ITS MUSCLES FOLLOWING THE SUCCESSFUL OPERATION IN IRAN, TRYING TO PROVE ITSELF AS A REGIONAL SUPER POWER.

SOME SAYING THE UNITED STATES IS QUITE UNEASY ABOUT ISRAEL'S ACTION.

HOW IS THAT PERHAPS COMPLICATING THE SITUATION?

>> IT IS COMPLICATING THE SITUATION VERY MUCH, AND INDEED, IT SHOWS DIVERGENCE BETWEEN THE U.S. POLICY AND THE ISRAELI POLICY.

THE THE UNITED STATES WANTS TO HELP SYRIAN IN THIS TRANSITION.

WANTS TO HELP THE GOVERNMENT UNIFYING SYRIA AND WANTS TO SEE SYRIA STABLE AND PEACEFUL.

FROM THE ISRAELI SIDE, THEY WANT TO KEEP SYRIA FRAGMENTED AND KEEP DAMASCUS WEAK.

THEY DON'T TRUST THE GOVERNMENT AND THEY THINK THAT THIS HELPED THEM IN THE REGIONAL ORDER THEY ARE TRYING TO BUILD.

I THINK THIS COMPLICATES THE SITUATION NOT SIDE SYRIA AND THIS IS AN AREA WHERE THE UNITED STATES COULD -- >> I BELIEVE WE'VE HAD MORE TECHNICAL ISSUES THERE WITH IBRAHIM'S POLICIES.

ONCE AGAIN, BOMBARDED BY DRONES AND MISSILES EVEN AS RUSSIA CLAIMS IT IS OPEN TO PEACE.

AS PRESIDENT TRUMP'S 50-DAY DEADLINE COUNTS DOWN, PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAS MADE A FRESH OFFER FOR TALKS INCLUDING WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN.

SO WHAT IS THE REALITY ON THE FRONT LINES RIGHT NOW?

FRANZ-STEFAN GADY STUDIES ALL OF THIS CLOSELY AND IS THE AUTHOR OF "HOW THE UNITED STATES WOULD FIGHT CHINA."

HE JOINS US NOW FOR TAKING THE TIME.

WHAT SURPRISED YOU MOST FROM YOUR RECENT VISIT WHICH I BELIEVE WAS JUST DAYS AGO TO THE FRONT LINES THERE IN UKRAINE.

>> FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE INVITATION.

WHAT SURPRISED ME THE MOST PERHAPS IS THE TENACITY OF THE FORCES FIGHTING AFTER FOUR BLOODY YEARS AGAINST THIS RUSSIAN ONSLAUGHT, AND THE MORALE AMONG THE UKRAINIAN FORCES REMAINS HIGH.

BUT OF COURSE, THERE ARE OBVIOUS SIGNS OF EXHAUSTION AFTER ALL THESE YEARS OF FIGHTING.

I THINK FROM AN OPERATIONAL LEVEL ANALYSIS, THE FRONT BY AND LARGE REMAINS STABLE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SOUTHERN DONETSK WHERE THE MAIN ACCESS OF ADVANCE OF THE RUSSIAN ARMED FORCES CURRENTLY LIES.

THERE UKRAINE MAY HAVE TO CONDUCT SOME TACTICAL WITHDRAWALS IN THE NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE.

OVERALL, IT IS NOT INDICATING COLLAPSE AND IT IS UNLIKELY RUSSIA WILL MAKE ANY SIGNIFICANT OPERATIONAL BREAKTHROUGHS IN THE NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE.

WHAT IS INTERESTING, THERE ARE SOME WORRISOME TRENDS THAT I'VE NOTICED OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS TRAVELING IN UKRAINE.

ONE PERTAINS REALLY TO DRUM FIGHT BEATING RUSSIA AND UKRAINE.

FOR THE LONGEST TIME, IN 2024 AND 2025, UKRAINE HAS HELD THE ADVANTAGE AND THIS ADVANTAGE IS NOW IN DANGER OF SLIPPING AWAY SOME OF THE ACCESS OF ADVANCE OF THE RUSSIAN ARMED FORCES.

THIS SHOULD BE CONCERNING BECAUSE THE ENTIRE DEFENSE SYSTEM IS BUILT AROUND DRONE WARFARE.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK SHOULD NOT BE UNDERESTIMATED HERE.

>> WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT THE INNOVATIONS AND RATHER IMPRESSIVE NATURE IN WHICH UKRAINE HAS TAKEN ON IN DRONE WARFARE HERE AND BECOMING REALLY A DOMESTIC ISSUE OF THEIR IN TERMS OF PRODUCING THEIR OWN DRONES AND BECOMING QUITE EFFECTIVE USE INSIDE RUSSIA.

BUT IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT RUSSIA HAS DEVELOPED THEIR DRONE TECHNOLOGY AS WELL.

THE FINANCIAL TIMES TODAY REPORTING THERE ARE SWARM TACTICS AGAINST UKRAINE ARE ALSO INCREASINGLY CUTTING THROUGH THE DEFENSIVE CAPE BILLS AND AT A RATHER ALARMING RATE, THE DATA SUGGESTS ABOUT 15% ARE BEING PENETRATED THROUGH THEIR DEFENSE, ON AVERAGE BETWEEN APRIL AND JUNE.

THAT'S UP FROM JUST 5% THEY WERE ABLE TO PENETRATE SOME MONTHS EARLIER.

AS WE HEAR ABOUT THE U.S. SENDING IN MORE WEAPONS, MORE DEFENSIVE WEAPONS IN PARTICULAR, PATRIOT MISSILES DON'T REALLY DEFEND.

HOW CAN THEY RESPOND?

>> THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT UKRAINE IS ACTIVELY WORKING TOWARD FINDING SOME TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS TO ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM.

THE BIG QUESTION FOR UKRAINE IS ALWAYS, CAN UKRAINE ACTUALLY SCALE UP THESE TECHNOLOGICAL SOLUTIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, CAN THEY PRODUCE ENOUGH TO INTERCEPT THE DRONES THAT TAKE DOWN THE DRONES.

AND IN MANY WAYS, I THINK UKRAINE IS ADDRESSING THE THREAT AND ONE SHOULD NEVER FORGET, THERE'S ALWAYS ADAPTATION AND COUNTERADAPTATION.

SO UKRAINE NEEDS TO DEPARTMENT DUE TO GROWING RUSSIAN AERIAL THREAT.

YOU CAN ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

THE WEAPONS OF CHOICE TO SHOOT DOWN DRONES.

THEY'RE WAY TOO EXPENSIVE.

CHEAPER MEANS ARE NECESSARY AND THIS IS WHAT UKRAINE IS CURRENTLY WORKING O. I THINK IN THE NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE, THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS, PEOPLE SEE IT WHEN IT COME TO THE STRATEGIC STRIKE CAMPAIGN.

I THINK WE SHOULD KNOW LOSE HOPE OF WHAT IS HAS GONE ON THE FRONT LINE.

HERE UKRAINE IS REALLY GETTING, TO THE DISADVANTAGE, VIS-A-VIS RUSSIA, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY HAVE LOST THAT.

THEY HAVE CERTAIN TACTICS AND IMPLEMENTING OPERATIONS AT SCALE WHERE THE UKRAINIAN ARMED FORCES ARE REALLY STRUGGLING NOW AT THE FRONT LINE.

PERHAPS 12 TO 14 MILE BEHIND THE FRONT LINE WHERE RUSSIAN FORCES ARE INCREASINGLY TARGETING DRONE TEAMS AND THE LOGISTICS OFF THE UKRAINIAN DRONE TEAM.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I TOOK AWAY FROM MY REASON TRIP TO UKRAINE THAT UKRAINE NEEDS TO FIND COUNTERMEASURES OUT IN ADDITION TO ATTACKS ON UKRAINIAN CITIES WHERE UKRAINE IS, EXCUSE ME, RUSSIA IS TARGETING.

IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT RUSSIA IS OBVIOUSLY TARGETING THE CIVILIAN POPULATION TO BREAK UKRAINE'S ABILITY TO RESIST.

AND EXHAUSTING THEIR DEFENSIVE CAPABILITIES, HAVING TO CLUES WHAT THEY PROTECT.

THEIR CIVILIANS ON THE FRONT LINE, THE MAJOR CITIES, THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND GRID AND ELECTRICITY.

IF YOU TALK ABOUT A NUMBER OF YOUR REPORTS, IF THE MAIN ISSUE AND SET BACK FOR UKRAINE IS ONE OF MANPOWER, HOW DOES UKRAINE MAKE UP FOR THAT?

BECAUSE IF IT IS A GAME OF NUMBERS AND IT COMES DOWN TO THE MANPOWER THAT RUSSIA HAS AT ITS DISPOSAL, LET'S NOT EVEN FACTOR IN NORTH KOREAN TROOPS ASSISTING THEM, WHAT MORE CAN BE DONE?

IS IT ABOUT LOWERING THE CONSCRIPTION PAGE WHICH IS NOT VERY PALATABLE FOR MOST UKRAINIANS AT THIS POINT.

>> YOU STATE RIGHTLY.

THE MAIN ISSUE THAT UKRAINE AS A HOLE IS FACING IN THIS WAR OF ATTRITION IS THE LACK OF MANPOWER.

THAT'S THE REASON WHY THEY IMPLEMENTED IN 2024 A DEFENSIVE SYSTEM THAT IS BUILT AROUND UNMANNED SYSTEMS.

DRONES, ESSENTIALLY.

IT WAS MEANT TO COMPENSATE FOR THE LACK OF MANPOWER.

THIS SYSTEM IS UNDER THREAT THAT THIS IS A RATHER DAUNTING CHALLENGE FOR UKRAINE.

UKRAINE OBVIOUSLY NEEDS TO BULL UP ADDITIONAL RESERVES BUT IT IS A CHALLENGE.

IN MY OPINION IN THE SHORT TERM, THE SOLUTION CAN'T JUST BE EXPANDING THE MANPOWER PACE OF UKRAINE.

TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS AT SCALE.

ADDITIONAL DRONES, ADDITIONAL MILITARY CAPABILITIES TO SCALE UP THE PRODUCTION OF UNMANNED SYSTEMS.

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT DRONES THAT FLY IN THE AIR.

I'M ALSO TALKING ABOUT ADDITIONAL GROUND SYSTEMS, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT ALSO INCREASINGLY ARE BECOMING MORE RELEVANT TO WHERE, FOR EXAMPLE, PERTAINS TO LOGISTICS, WHERE DRONE ROBOTS ARE SUPPLYING UKRAINE FORCES, WHICH ARE TRAPPED FOR 80 OR 100 DAYS OR MORE WITHOUT ROTATING AT THE FRONT LINE BECAUSE OF MANPOWER AND DECREASING DRONE THREAT.

THE SOLDIERS ARE BEING SUPPLIED BY GROUND ROBOTS.

>> THAT'S FASCINATING.

YOU TALK ABOUT THE SHORTCOMINGS AND YOU DESCRIBED IN A RECENT INTERVIEW ABOUT SPEAKING WITH A BRINGING AID COMMANDER WHO WAS HOLDING A 900 METER STRETCH OF THE FRONT LINE WITH ONLY AN EIGHT-MAN SQUAD.

GIVE US MORE INSIGHT INTO THE REALITY NOW THAT SO MANY OF THESE COMMANDERS ARE FACING WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR ABILITY TO SEE MORE OF THEIR FIGHTERS ACTUALLY HOLDING THE LINE.

>> WELL, I THINK ONE ISSUE WITH THE INFANTRY FIGHTS, THE SOLDIER AGAINST ST., THE THREAT THAT THE STHS CAN'T REALLY ENGAGE FORCES.

THEY NEED TO HIDE ON THE BATTLEFIELD.

IF YOU ARE DETECTED, MOST LIKELY YOU WILL GET HIT, KILLED OR WOUNDED.

SO IN A WAY THE INFANTRY HAS SOMEWHAT OF A PASSIVE ROLE ON THE BATTLEFIELD.

THAT'S WHY I'M EMPHASIZING THE DRONE FIGHT OVER THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS.

INFANTRY IS STILL VERY IMPORTANT ON ON THE BATTLEFIELD.

IT IS THE COMBINATION OF ARTILLERY WITH DRONES THAT CAUSES THE HIGH NUMBER OF DRONE CASUALTIES ON THE BATTLEFIELD BECAUSE THE ARTILLERY IS ANALYZING RUSSIAN ATTACKS.

IT IS SUPPRESSING RUSSIAN ATTACKS.

ONLY ONCE IT HAS DO ITS WORK, THE DEFENSE CAN MOVE IN AND PICK OFF THE TARGETS, SO TO SPEAK.

THE CHARACTER IS CHANGING EVERY COUPLE OF MONTHS AND THAT'S THE REASON WHY THE TEAM THAT I'M WITH NEED TO GO BACK AND FORTH EVERY COUPLE MONTHS NEED TO GO BACK.

>> MY FINAL QUESTION TO YOU, WHAT LESSONS, BIGGER PICTURE NOT JUST INVOLVING RUSSIA AND UKRAINE BUT THE FUTURE OF WARFARE AND ALSO, AS THE U.S. IS EYEING CHINA, A WAR THAT BEGAN THREE YEARS AGO WITH THE FOCUS ON TANKS AND AIRCRAFT, NOW SWITCHING TO DRONES AND ROBOTS SUGGESTS WHAT ABOUT THE FUTURE OF WARFARE?

WHAT SHOULD THE UNITED STATES AND ITS ALLIES BE TAKING AWAY FROM THIS?

>> WE FOCUS WAY TOO MUCH ON PLATFORMS AND SYSTEMS.

WAY TOO MUCH ON TECHNOLOGY, TECHNOLOGICAL SOLUTIONS ALONE, AND FORGET WE NEED THE ORGANIZATIONAL CAPACITY WITHIN OUR ARMED SPORSS.

WE NEED INNOVATIVE TACTICS ON THE BATTLEFIELD.

IT IS A COMBINATION OF ALL THESE DIFFERENT ASPECTS.

IT IS THE INTEGRATION OF DIFFERENT WEAPONS SYSTEMS.

ARTILLERY, INFANTRY, AND DRONES, AS EXAMPLE, A SO-CALLED ARMS APPROACH.

THAT'S THE FUTURE OF WARFARE AND THAT HAS BEEN ALWAYS THE CASE IN TERMS OF COMBAT EFFECTIVENESS, THAT YOU NEED TO COMBINE THE OPERATION.

THIS IS SOMETHING NOT A LOT OF EUROPEAN MILITARIES CAN DO AT THIS STAGE AND WHERE THE UNITED STATES IS STRUGGLING.

THAT'S PROBABLY MY MAIN TAKEAWAY WHEN IT COMES TO WARFARE AND THE LESSONS LEARNED IN UKRAINE.

>> HOW CLOSELY IS CHINA WATCHING THIS AS WELL?

>> CHINA IS EXCEPTIONALLY CLOSELY PATCHING THE FIGHT.

>> I THINK WE WOULD DO WELL.

THE WEST, NOT TO BE OUT LESSONED, SO TO SPEAK, BY THE LIBERATION EARL, PARTICULARLY ANY CONFRONTATION WITH EAST ASIA.

>> WE JUST SAW PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY POST ON X YESTERDAY THAT HE'S BEEN SPEAKING WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP ABOUT COOPERATING MORE ON DRONE TECHNOLOGY BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES AS THIS CLEARLY IS A PIVOT PIVOTAL MOMENT.

FRANZ-STEFAN GADY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> WE KNOW WE ALL NEED OUR BEAUTY HE SLEEP.

THERE IS NOTHING MORE FRUSTRATING THAN TOSSING AND TURNING IN BED, UNABLE TO DRIFT OFF.

MILLION OF AMERICANS SUFFER FROM INSOMNIA INCLUDING OUR NEXT GUEST, THE ATLANTIC'S STAFF WRITER JENNIFER SENIOR.

SHE JOINS THE SHOW TO DISCUSS HER RECENT PIECE ON THE STRUGGLE FOR SLEEP AND HOW IT IS BECOMING A PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU WROTE AN ARTICLE RECENTLY, WHY CAN'T AMERICANS SLEEP?

MY FIRST QUESTION IS HOW BIG OF A PROBLEM IS SLEEP THAT IT REQUIRES THIS MUCH ATTENTION?

>> I FEEL LIKE THAT STORY, THE NAME IS A LITTLE DECEPTIVE.

IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CALLED DON'T FEEL BAD IF YOU CAN'T SLEEP.

I WAS TRYING VERY HARD NOT TO WRITE A SCARY SLEEP STORY BUT I DEFINITELY WANTED TO CONVEY THE SCOPE.

SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE TROUBLE.

THE ANSWER IS, 30 TO 35% OF AMERICANS REPORT AT LEAST TEMPORARILY SOME FORMS OF, SOME FORM OF INSOMNIA, WHICH IS TO SAY EITHER THEY CAN'T FALL ASLEEP, THEY CAN'T STAY ASLEEP, OR THEY WAKE UP FAR EARLIER THAN THEY WOULD LIKE.

12% OF AMERICANS REPORT IT AS AN ENDURING CONDITION.

THAT NUMBER BOMBS UP TO 15% IF YOU'RE A MILLENNIAL.

ANOTHER WAY TO THINK ABOUT THIS, WHICH I THINK IS VERY INTERESTING, IS THAT 18.4% OF AMERICANS TAKE SOME MEDICATION TO FALL ASLEEP, EITHER EVERY NIGHT OR SOME NIGHTS.

WHEN I MENTIONED THIS TO A GIANT IN THE FIELD, THIS WOMAN NAMED SUZANNE, SHE WROTE BACK TO ME, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

THE NUMBER HAS TO BE MUCH HIGHER.

WHICH MAKES ME WONDER, ARE PEOPLE UNDERREPORTING?

LIKE THEY'RE ASHAMED?

DO THEY NOT CONSIDER MELATONIN A DRUG?

DO THEY NOT CONSIDER WEED A DRUG?

>> YOU SHARE A LOT ABOUT HOW THIS IS SUCH A PERSONAL STORY FOR YOU BECAUSE UP, THEN ONE NIGHT, MAYBE TWO MONTHS BEFORE I TURNED 29, THAT SENSE THAT NORMAL SLEEPERS HAVE.

THEIR MINDS LISTING TOWARD UNCONSCIOUSNESS, COMPLETELY DESERTED ME.

HOW BIZARRE, I THOUGHT.

I FELL ASLEEP AT 5:00 A.M. AND THIS WAS, DO YOU REMEMBER THAT KIND OF TRANSITION FROM A PERSON WHO GOT GREAT SLEEP TO JUST -- NO LONGER HAVING IT?

>> SUCH A GOOD QUESTION.

IT IS SO VISCERAL WHEN I THINK ABOUT IT.

I WAS JUST THINKING THE OTHER DAY THAT SENSATION THAT YOU HAVE, NOT JUST OF THE PIX LATING STUFF.

THAT YOU CANNOT STAY UP ANOTHER MINUTE.

YOU JUST HAVE TO ROLL OVER AND YOU'RE OUT.

I USED TO HAVE THAT EVERY NIGHT AT 1:00 ON THE NOSE.

I HAVEN'T KNOWN THAT SENSATION FOR OVER 25 YEARS.

AND I STILL KNOW, I CAN STILL REMEMBER WHAT IT FELT LIKE, THE TUG INTO UNCONSCIOUSNESS.

THERE'S SUCH A GIANT DISCONTINUITY IN MY PERSONALITY OR MY BODY BETWEEN THEN AND NOW.

YEAH.

I DO REMEMBER THAT TRANSITION.

AND IT WAS ABRUPT.

IT WAS TERRIFYING.

AT FIRST IT WAS JUST WEIRD.

IN SHORT ORDER, YOU'RE THINKING, SOMETHING BROKE.

WAS I POISONED?

WHAT HAPPENED?

>> WHAT ARE SOME OF THE REASONS WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO GET A HAND ON THIS?

>> A LOT OF THEM ARE THINGS THAT ARE INTUITIVE.

A LOT OF THEM, THE NUMBERS ARE REALLY FASCINATING.

ELECTRICITY LAYS WASTE TO OUR CIRCADIAN RHYTHM.

MIDNIGHT WAS NO LONGER MIDNIGHT.

YOU KNOW?

SOMETHING A LOT OF US STAYED UP UNTIL.

BUT LET'S SEE, 16.4% OF AMERICANS WORK NONSTANDARD HOURS, WHICH IS TO SAY NIGHT SHIFT WORK.

SO THEY'RE DRIVING HOME DURING THE DAY WHICH IS CONFUSING THEIR INTERNAL CLOCK.

SO THAT'S PART OF IT.

PEOPLE WORK SECOND JOBS.

THAT'S PART OF IT.

IF YOU'RE WHITE COME ARGS YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE THE CONSTANT WOOD-PECKERING INCURSIONS FROM YOUR BOSSES AND YOUR COLLEAGUES AND EVERYONE ELSE ASKING BUT WORK.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING, YOU KNOW, THE BOUNDARY BETWEEN HOME AND WORK IS COMPLETELY DISSOLVED.

ADOLESCENTS SOCIALIZE ONLINE, THEY DO HOMEWORK ONLINE, THE BLUE LIGHT, IT'S HORRIBLE.

>> I WAS, MY FASCINATION WITH SLEEP IS PARTLY BECAUSE I DON'T GET GOOD SLEEP AND I'M SURE YOU AS A PERSON, YOU DESCRIBE YOURSELF AS SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T GET GOOD SLEEP.

YOU LOST THE ABILITY.

IT IS AMAZING HOW PEOPLE WHO GET GOOD SLEEP HAVE THE BEST ADVICE FOR PEOPLE LIKE US.

HAVE YOU TRIED, I DON'T KNOW, X, Y, Z, A -- YES.

I'VE GONE THROUGH ALL THOSE THINGS AND IT'S NOT SLEEPING.

>> I LOVE YOU FOR SAYING THAT.

THE.

A INSIPID TIPS.

ALL THE LISTS WE'RE GIVEN.

OH, I HADN'T THOUGHT OF THAT.

DON'T DRINK CAFFEINE AT 9:00 AT NIGHT.

CRAZY.

IF YOU SLEEP IN A ROOM THAT'S THE RIGHT TEMPERATURE.

AS IF WE DON'T INSTINCTIVELY THROW A BLANKET OFF IF WE'RE TOO HOT.

AND THE DOPEY STUFF LIKE SPRAY YOUR PILL THEY DO WITH ESSENTIAL OILS.

THESE ARE NOT, IF YOU REALLY HAVE TROUBLE SLEEPING, AND IT IS VERY INTERESTING.

IF YOUR CASE, I WONDER WHETHER YOUR BODY LEARNED A NEW TRICK.

EVENTUALLY, NOT SLEEPING BECAUSE A REPETITIVE STIMULUS AND IT IS A NEGATIVE.

SO YOU HAVE TO RELEARN SLEEP TO SOME DEGREE.

AND COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL THERAPY FOR INSOMNIA IS ONE OF THE BEST TOOLS OUT THERE.

AND ALMOST NO ONE KNOWS ABOUT IT BECAUSE GENERAL PRACTITIONERS DON'T HEAR ABOUT IT MUCH AND NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE ARE TRAINED IN IT.

THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL NUMBER OF PEOPLE FOR WHOM IT DOESN'T WORK SO PEOPLE TAKE MEDICATION AND THEY DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE THERE'S SOMETHING SHAMEFUL ABOUT IT.

AND MY FAVORITE THING IS WHEN PEOPLE SAY, I COULD NEVER NOT SLEEP.

YOU LOVE SLEEP TOO MUCH.

WHO LOVES SLEEP MORE THAN INSOMNIAC!

>> YEAH.

AND THAT'S STRESSFUL.

>> YES.

>> I WONDER, YOU TALKED ABOUT COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL THERAPY IN THIS ARTICLE AND THERE'S THIS IDEA OF SLEEP RESTRICTION.

EXPLAIN WHAT IS HAPPENING FOR OUR AUDIENCE.

>> I WILL.

IT IS REALLY ONE OF THE MAIN PILLARS OF COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL THERAPY FOR INSOMNIA.

IT IS KIND OF THE PILLAR AND IT IS REALLY HARD.

I COULDN'T SWING IT.

I COULDN'T HACK IT.

IF PEOPLE CAN HACK IT, IT IS SUPPOSED TO WORK.

WHAT DO YOU DO?

YOU KEEP YOUR SLEEP DIARY.

YOU HAVE YOUR WEARABLE AND IT TELLS YOU HOW MUCH SLEEP.

AND YOU DISCOVER THAT YOU GO TO BED AT, LET'S SAY, 11:00, AND YOU WAKE UP AT 8:00, AND YOU'VE ONLY ELEMENTARY SCHOOL FIVE OUT OF THE NINE HOURS.

YOU CAN PRESS ALL OF THAT SLEEP INTO A FIVE-HOUR BLOCK.

THIS IS A DISCIPLINE YOU DO.

WHICH MEANS, LET'S SAY YOU WANT TO STILL CHOOSE EIGHT AS YOUR WAKE-UP TIME.

YOU HAVE TO GO TO BED AT 3:00.

YOU ARE ONLY ONLY THOSE FIVE HOURS IN BED.

THAT IS IT.

ONCE YOU'VE SLEPT THE MAJORITY OF THOSE HOURS, YOU HAVE TO DO IT TWO MORE NIGHTS.

AND ONLY AFTER YOU'VE DONE IT FOR THREE NIGHTS, THEN YOU CAN REWARD YOURSELF WITH 15 MORE MINUTES OF SLEEP.

AND YOU HAVE TO DO THAT FOR THREE NIGHTS.

THEN YOU ADD 15 MORE.

YOUR SLEEP DOESN'T JUST CONTRACT OBLIGINGLY INTO A CASE.

IT IS REALLY HARD TO DO.

AND IT MAKES YOU REALLY HYSTERICAL WITH EXHAUSTION IF YOU CAN'T PULL IT OFF.

>> AS YOU DESCRIBE THIS PROCESS, I CAN HEAR PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM SLEEPING SAY, THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE MOST XIETY.

WHEN PEOPLE DON'T FALL ASLEEP, THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT NOT FALLING A SLEEP.

OH, NO, I ONLY HAVE THREE HOURS LEFT.

THEN THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT THE NEXT DAY AND HOW THEIR LIFE WILL BE A WRECK.

SO I WONDER HOW MUCH OF SLEEP IS OUR PHYSIOLOGICAL NEED TO REST, RIGHT?

AND THEN OUR SORT OF MANAGING ALL THE PSYCHOLOGY AROUND IT TO ALLOW OUR BRAIN TO RELAX.

>> YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT.

IN FACT, YOU HAVE ISOLATED WHAT BASICALLY KEEPS INSOMNIA AIRBORNE, IF THAT'S THE REAL WORD.

AT A CERTAIN POINT, WHATEVER THE PRECIPITATING FACTOR, IF YOU CAN EVEN FIGURE OUT WHAT IT IS, KIND OF BECOMES BESIDE THE POINT.

YOU START DOING INSOMNIA MATH.

NOW I HAVE FIVE HOURS, FOUR AND A HALF, NOW I HAVE THREE.

PART OF THE BEHAVIORAL COMPONENT OF COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL THERAPY IS TO NOT LOOK AT YOUR WATCH.

WHAT THEY SOMETIMES SAY WHEN YOU'RE DOING SLEEP RESTRICTION IS, YOU TAKE A MEDICATION IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU DO FALL ASLEEP AT THE PRESCRIBED HOUR.

AND PEOPLE ARE OFTEN VERY RELUCTANT TO DO THAT.

IF YOU ONLY TAKE IT A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, IT IS PRETTY EASY.

YOU CAN WEAN.

IN FACT, YOU CAN WEAN ANY TIME, REALLY.

JUST TAPER SLOWLY AND UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF A DOCTOR.

THE IDEA IS THAT YOU BUILD UP ENOUGH SLEEP PRESSURE IF YOU DO THIS.

I REFUSED TO TAKE SLEEP MEDICATION.

IT MADE IT WORSE.

YOU HAVE TO MANAGE YOUR ACTUAL ANXIETY ABOUT SLEEPING.

AND FACT-CHECK YOUR BELIEFS.

WILL YOU REALLY NOT FUNCTION THE NEXT DAY?

WILL YOU REALLY GET FIRED?

OR WILL YOU REALLY BE MAD AT YOUR JOB FOR A DAY OR TWO?

>> I ALSO WONDER WHETHER THERE IS THIS CONNECTION, WHICH WAY THE CONNECTION IS BETWEEN THE ANXIETY THAT THE LACK OF SLEEP IS GIVING YOU AND DEPRESSION.

THERE'S A LOT OF OVERLAP FOR PEOPLE WHO SEEM DEPRESSED.

WHICH WAY IS IT?

>> I'M SO GLAD YOU ASKED THAT.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS I FOUND MOST FASCINATING.

THE MOST RECENT WAVE OF STUDIES SUGGESTS, OF COURSE, THEY'RE BIDIRECTAL AS ANY ANALYST OR CLINICIAN WOULD SAY.

BUT IT USED TO BE, IF YOU FELL ASLEEP FOR SOME KIND OF MYSTERIOUS REASON, JUST THIS I HADDIO PATHIC ONSET OF SLEEPLESSNESS, THEY WOULD SAY IT'S PROBABLY DEPRESSION IN DISGUISE.

IT IS HOW IT IS MANIFESTING.

I WAS LOOKING AT PEOPLE SAYING, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND.

APPLY WEEK IS NO DIFFERENT FROM THE WEEK, MONTH, TWO MONTHS I'VE HAD BEFORE.

THERE IS NOTHING DIFFERENT.

AND EVERYONE SAID I WAS DEPRESSED.

NOW THE THOUGHT IS ACTUALLY THAT SLEEPLESSNESS MORE OFTEN CAUSES DEPRESSION THAN VICE VERSA.

DEPRESSION CAN CERTAINLY CAUSE SLEEPLESSNESS.

BUT THERE IS A THOUGHT THAT MORE OFTEN IS THE REVERSE.

IT CERTAINLY PREDICTS DEPRESSION IN A WAY THAT DEPRESSION IS NOT QUITE PREDICT SLEEPLESSNESS AS CONSISTENTLY.

>> MAYBE IN AMERICA WE'RE IN A PLACE WHERE THERE'S A LARGER CONVERSATION ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH.

MAYBE A LITTLE LESS STIGMA AROUND TAKING ANTI-DEPRESSANTS.

HAVE WE BEEN SCARED AWAY FROM PHARMACOLOGICAL SOLUTIONS TO NOT SLEEPING?

>> PEOPLE ARE VERY FREE WITH SAYING THEY'RE ON THEIR PROZAC OR WHATEVER BUT PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO TALK ABOUT WHETHER THEY TAKE THING FOR SLEEP.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DO.

AND THE QUESTION IS WHY THERE'S SO MANY SHAME AROUND IT.

AS YOU SAID, WITH SOME LIFESTYLE CHANGES, MAYBE PEOPLE WOULDN'T NEED STATINS OR OZEMPIC.

THEY WOULDN'T NEED THEIR HYPERTENSION DRUGS.

NO ONE SAYS THEY'RE ADDICTED TO THEM.

BUT PEOPLE SAY THEY'RE ADDICTED TO THEIR SLEEPING PILLS, AND THEY CALL THEM DRUGS AS OPPOSED TO MEDICATION.

THERE IS A STENCH OF STIGMA SURROUNDING IT.

AND I THINK SOME OF IT IS CULTURAL.

AND THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DEPENDENCE AND ADDICTION.

PEOPLE ARE TAKING IT BECAUSE THEY'RE SEEKING RELIEF AND CONTRARY TO WHAT MOST PEOPLE THINK, MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW BEYOND THEIR AMOUNTS.

MELATONIN IN THE HIGH DOSES WE HAVE IN THE UNITED STATES.

THREE MILLIGRAMS, FIVE MILLIGRANS, EVEN TWO.

YOU CAN ONLY GET IT BY PRESCRIPTION IN MANY EUROPEAN COUNTRIES.

PEOPLE TAKE IT WITHOUT REALIZING, IT IS A CIRCADIAN SIGNALING HORMONE.

IT'S GOOD FOR JET LAG.

PROBABLY GOOD FOR SHIFT WORKERS.

IT TELLS PEOPLE WHEN TO GO TO BED.

>> WE HAVE HEARD FOR SO LONG, YOU NEED EIGHT HOURS OF SLEEP.

RIGHT?

AS YOU WENT AND TALKED TO ALL THESE DIFFERENT RESEARCHERS, WHAT WERE THE THINGS THEY SAID, YEAH, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT.

THAT THING THAT YOU'VE HEARD FOR 20 YEARS, THAT'S NOT SUPPORTED BY THE SCIENCE THAT I'M DOING OR MAYBE YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT THIS OR THAT MORE.

>> RIGHT.

SO I ASKED EVERY RESEARCHER I INTERVIEWED, TELL ME THE DOGMA ABOUT SLEEP THAT YOU THINK OUGHT TO BE DEBUNKED OR YOU THINK IS TOTALLY WRONG AND EIGHT HOURS CAME UP THE MOST.

I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED IT BECAUSE THERE IS ACTUALLY.

MANY THAT SAY THE RIGHT AMOUNT IS 6.5 TO 7.4.

IT IS TRICKY.

THOSE NUMBERS ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE BEST HEALTH OUTCOMES.

WHAT THAT MEANS, YOU DON'T KNOW WHY PEOPLE ARE SLEEPING MORE.

YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL THE THINGS YOU CAN CONTROL FOR.

YOU CAN CONTROL FOR AGE, FOR WEIGHT, FOR, I'M TRYING TO THINK, AND SEX.

DO YOU SMOKE?

THE PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS THAT YOU MIGHT KNOW OF, IT'S HARD TO CONTROL FOR ALL OF THEM.

BUT THERE ARE MANY STUDIES THAT SAY SEVEN.

MANY THAT SAY SEVEN.

ALSO, THIS WILL CHANGE OVER THE COURSE OF A LIFETIME.

OLDER PEOPLE DON'T SLEEP AS WELL AS YOUNGER PEOPLE.

THEY JUST DON'T.

SO WHEN PEOPLE WHO ARE 75 COME INTO A SLEEP CLINIC AND SAY I'M NOT SLEEPING EIGHT HOURS, THE CLINICIANS HAVE TO LOOK AT THEM AND SAY, I HATE TO BREAK IT TO YOU.

AT THIS AGE, YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO.

>> HERE YOU ARE, 25 YEARS LATER.

YOU HAVE LITERALLY THROWN THE KITCHEN SINK AT THIS.

ACUPUNCTURE AND DRUGS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

WHAT IS YOUR SUGGESTION FOR WHO TO REACH OUT TO?

THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS UNEVEN.

THE EXPERTS MIGHT DIFFER IN THEIR OPINION.

>> MAYBE SOME HAVE APNEA, ALL SORTS OF THINGS.

I WOULD SAY TO PEOPLE, NUMBER ONE, IF IT'S BEEN A PERSISTENT CONDITION, GET YOURSELF INTO A SLEEP CLINIC TO SEE, YES, IF THEY CAN GIVE YOU COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL THERAPY.

IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE TAKING MEDS AND THEY'RE RAGING OUT OF CONTROL, THEY MAY BE ABLE TO HELP YOU MANAGE THEM, REASSESS WHAT YOU'RE TAKING.

THERE ARE APPS, TWO DEVELOPED BY THE DOD AND THE VA. ONE DOESN'T INCLUDE A SLEEP RESTRICTION AND ONE DOES.

I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAMES.

IF YOU JUST TYPE IN COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL THERAPY FOR INSOMNIA ON GOOLG AND YOU WRITE.

YOU CAN SEE VERY QUICKLY WHICH HAS THE DRACONIAN SLEEP RESTRICTION AND IT IS THE ONE YOU WANT AND THAT WILL BE AVAILABLE TO YOU IMMEDIATELY.

ACTION PRESSURE IS GREAT.

IT JUST RELAXES YOU.

I WOULD SAY THAT MEDITATION DOES HELP.

IT DOES.

>> JENNIFER SENIOR, THIS HAS BEEN A FASCINATING CONVERSATION.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ONE, FOR TURNING YOUR PERSONAL NIGHTMARE INTO SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE CAN LEARN FROM AND WRITING ABOUT THIS.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU FOR THE GREAT QUESTIONS.

>>> AND NOW BEFORE WE GO, DONALD TRUMP IS OFFICIALLY SIX MONTHS INTO HIS SECOND TERM, AND THEY'VE CERTAINLY BEEN BUSY.

KEVIN LIPTAK HAS MORE FROM THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> Reporter: PRESIDENT TRUMP IS LOOKING TO CELEBRATE HIS SIX-MONTH MARK IN OFFICE, AND CERTAINLY, I THINK EVERYONE WOULD AGREE THAT IT HAS BEEN AN EVENTFUL HALF A YEAR FOR THE PRESIDENT.

IN CONGRESS, AT THE SUPREME COURT, ON THE WORLD STAGE BURKS POLLS DO SHOW THAT AMERICANS ARE STARTING TO SOUR ON SOME OF HIS BIGGEST PRIORITIES, AND THIS MATTER INVOLVING THE JEFFREY EPSTEIN FILES HAS IN A LOT OF WAYS OVERSHADOWED THE PRESIDENT'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS, AT LEAST IN THE LAST WEEK.

MEMBERS ADVOCATING FOR THE ADMINISTRATION TO RELEASE MORE INFORMATION AND THE PRESIDENT WORKING TO TAMP DOWN ON THE DISCONTENT.

EARLIER SUNDAY THE PRESIDENT CHOSE TO MARK THE MOMENT BY WRITING ON TRUTH SOCIAL, WOW, TIME FLIES.

TODAY IS THE SIX-MONTH JOURNEY.

WE'VE GOT A LOT OF GOOD AND GREAT THING DONE INCLUDING ENTERING NUMEROUS WARS OF COUNTRIES NOT RELATED TO US, OTHER THAN THROUGH TRADE AND/OR IN CERTAIN CASES, FRIEND SHIL.

THE PRESIDENT CONCLUSIONS, HAPPY ANNIVERSARY.

THE PRESIDENT CLEARLY EAGER TO MAKE THE MOST OF THE DAY.

HE ALSO IN AN EARLIER POST REFERENCED THE JEFFREY EPSTEIN MATTER SAYING SINCE THAT CONTROVERSY BEGAN BUBBLING UP, THAT HIS APPROVAL RATINGS AMONG HIS SUPPORTERS HAD ACTUALLY BEEN INCREASED.

ACCORDING TO A CNN POLL RELEASED LAST WEEK, THE PRESIDENT'S APPROVAL AMONG REPUBLICANS STANDS AT 88%.

BUT OVERALL, THE PRESIDENT'S NUMBERS REMAIN UNDERWATER.

HE'S AT 42% APPROVAL OVERALL.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE CRITICAL ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN CENTRAL TO THE PRESIDENT'S SIX MONTHS IN OFFICE, MORE AMERICANS DISAPPROVE OF THE PRESIDENT'S HANDLING THAN APPROVE.

SO ON TAXES, THE PRESIDENT PASSING THAT ENORMOUS BILL THAT EXTENDS THE TAX CUTS HE SIGNED FIRST TERM IN OFFICE, HE'S AT 44%.

ON IMMIGRATION, OF COURSE, THE PRESIDENT PURSUING A HARD-LINE IMMIGRATION AGENDA, THE PRESIDENT STANDS AT 42%.

ON THE ECONOMY, 40%.

WHILE THE SIX MONTH MONTH MARK IS A MOMENT TO LOOK BACK, IT IS A MOMENT TO LOOK FORWARD.

THIS WEEK THE PRESIDENT WILL CONTINUE PURSUING A NUMBER OF ISSUES THAT ARE CRITICAL TO HIS AGENDA.

AT SOME POINT HE WILL SIGN THE BILL THAT WAS PASSED BY CONGRESS LAST WEEK.

FOR CERTAIN BROADCASTERS AND ON FOREIGN AID.

THE PRESIDENT WILL HOST THE PHILIPPINE PRESIDENT, FERDINAND MARCOS JR. AT THE WHITE HOUSE.

ON MONDAY, THERE IS A CRITICAL HEARING IN MASSACHUSETTS ON THE ADMINISTRATION'S ATTEMPTS TO STRIP FEDERAL FUNDING FROM HARVARD.

THE PRESIDENT CONTINUES WITH HIS AGENDA.

HE'LL BE SENDING OUT MORE OF THE LETTERS WITH THE AUGUST 1st DEADLINE TO STRIKE NEW DEALS.

AT THE END OF THE WEEK, THE PRESIDENT WILL BE IN SCOTLAND VISITING HIS GOLF COURSES, BUT ALSO MEETING WITH THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER IN PART TO DISCUSS THE TRADE DEAL THAT THEY STRUCK EARLIER THIS YEAR.

SO CLEARLY, THE PRESIDENT, A LOT ON HIS PLATE AT THE SIX-MONTH MARK.

THE PRESIDENT ALSO LOOKING FORWARD.

>>> AND FINALLY -- >> ONE, TWO, THREE -- >> THE WORLD OF DRAGON BOAT RACING CHAMPIONS CAME TO A SPECTACULAR FINISH THIS SUNDAY.

THE WEEK-LONG EVENT SAW NEARLY 5,000 ATHLETES FROM 34 NATIONS SPRINTING ACROSS THE LAKE NEAR BERLIN.

ROOTED IN CHINESE CULTURE, IT ORIGINATED MORE THAN 2,000 YEARS AGO AND WAS BELIEVED TO BRING GOOD FORTUNE.

AMONG THE MANY PADDLERS WERE UKRAINIAN VETERANS WITH THE COUNTRY TAKING HOME 53 MEDALS.

AND ROWING THE WAY TO VICTORY IN DOZENS OF CATEGORIES.

CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL THE WINNERS.

AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP EACH NIGHT, THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.

>>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

SETON J. MELVIN.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN.

COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.