JOHN: IN MARCH, PRESIDENT TRUMP SIGNED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER TO BEGIN SHUTTING DOWN THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, THOUGH IT WOULD TAKE AN ACT OF CONGRESS TO ACTUALLY CLOSE IT.

IN THE MEANTIME, THE DEPARTMENT IS TAKING DRAMATIC STEPS TOWARD FULFILLING A CONSERVATIVE VISION OF A RESHAPED SYSTEM OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION.

JENNIFER SMITH RICHARDS IS THE CO-AUTHOR OF A PROPUBLICA INVESTIGATION LOOKING INTO THIS.

JENNIFER, WHAT IS THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION DOING?

WHAT STEPS ARE THEY TAKING?

JENNIFER: THEY HAVE BEEN VERY CLEAR SINCE TRUMP TOOK OFFICE, THE IDEA WAS TO SHUT DOWN THE DEPARTMENT, AND THE SECRETARY OF EDUCATION HAS CALLED IT HER FINAL MISSION AND TRUMP HAS CALLED THE DEPARTMENT A BIG CON JOB SO THAT HAS BEEN CLEAR, THIS DESIRE TO PHASE OUT MANY OF THE FUNCTIONS OF THE DEPARTMENT AND CLOSE IT DOWN.

WHAT IS LESS CLEAR IS WHY MCMAHON HAS BROUGHT IN A NUMBER OF POLITICAL STRATEGISTS AND ULTRACONSERVATIVE ACTIVISTS INTO THE OFFICE, EVEN AS IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE SHUTTING DOWN AND WINDING DOWN.

THOSE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN QUIET FRANKLY ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING BEHIND THE SCENES AT THE DEPARTMENT.

JOHN: IS THERE A COMMON THREAD RUNNING THROUGH THESE APPOINTMENTS?

DO THEY ALL HAVE SIMILAR GOALS OR THINGS THEY HAVE TALKED ABOUT IN THE PAST ABOUT EDUCATION?

JENNIFER: THEY HAVE.

MY COLLEAGUE AND I AT REPUBLICAN WENT THROUGH -- AT PROPUBLICA WENT THROUGH HUNDREDS OF HOURS OF SPEECHES AND WRITINGS FROM THESE APPOINTEES THAT LAY OUT A VISION FOR THE FUTURE OF AMERICAN EDUCATION AND THE TRUE LINE IS, THEY WANT TO BREAK UP WHAT THEY VIEW AS A MONOPOLY THAT PUBLIC SCHOOLS HAVE.

THEY ENVISION A FUTURE THAT FAR FEWER STUDENTS WILL BE ATTENDING A PUBLIC SCHOOL.

JOHN: I HAVE HEARD PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THIS, IN THE VIEW OF THE IDEA OF RETURNING POWER TO THE PARENTS TO L THEM FIGURE OUT WHAT SCHOOLS ARE DOING WELL AND LET THEM SEND THE MONEY THERE.

WHAT DO THE CRITICS SAY ABOUT THIS?

JENNIFER: CRITICS SAY YOU NEED A STRONG PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM FOR MANY REASONS.

ONE, PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE REQUIRED TO SERVE STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES WHEREAS PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE NOT.

THE AMERICAN SCHOOL SYSTEM IS A DEMOCRATIC IDEA, DESIGNED TO SERVE ANY AND ALL STUDENTS WHO COME THROUGH THEIR DOORS.

PRIVATE SCHOOL CHOICE MEANS PRIVATE SCHOOLS ALSO GET TO CHOOSE WHICH STUDENTS THEY WILL ACCEPT.

JOHN: ON THE ONE HAND THE ADMINISTRATION SAYS MOST DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS AT SCHOOL SHOULD BE DONE AT THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL, BUT ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT GETTING INVOLVED AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL ABOUT CURRICULUM DECISIONS?

JENNIFER: THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HISTORICALLY HAS NOT BEEN INVOLVED IN DICTATING WHAT IS BEING TAUGHT IN THE CLASSROOM.

IT HAS NOT BEEN IN THE CURRICULUM BUSINESS, BUT WHAT WE ARE SAYING UNDER THIS ADMINISTRATION, IS THE DESIRE TO PROMOTE CERTAIN TYPES OF CURRICULUM.

FOR EXAMPLE WHAT THEY REFER TO AS A PRO AMERICA OR PATRIOTIC CURRICULUM THAT WOULD BE IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS ACROSS AMERICA.

WE HAVE SEEN A NUMBER OF EDICTS AND MANDATES OUT OF THE DEPARTMENT HAVING TO DO WITH TEACHING RACISM AND GENDER AND DIVERSITY ISSUES.

THOSE ARE STEPS WE HAVE NOT SEEN FREQUENTLY IN THE LAST FEW YEARS.

WE REALLY ARE SAYING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT START TO REACH INTO CLASSROOMS AND AWAY WE ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH.

JOHN: SOME STATES HAVE TRIED TO DO THIS, HAVEN'T THERE?

JENNIFER: THERE HAVE BEEN.

STATES THAT TEND TO HAVE MAJORITY REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURES HAVE ADVANCED SEVERAL BILLS YOU MIGHT HAVE HEARD OF, THE ANTI-DEI OR ANTI-CRT BILLS, ANTI-TRANSGENDER BATHROOM BILLS.

THESE REFORMS HAVE BEEN TESTED IN INDIVIDUAL STATES AND HAVE BEEN UPHELD BY COURTS SO FAR IN MANY OF THE STATES.

SO YES THERE IS A RED STATE TESTING GROUND FOR MANY OF THESE IDEAS THAT WE ARE SEEING PLAY OUT AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

JOHN: HOW HAVE THE RESULTS BEEN?

THESE TESTING GROUNDS, WHAT HAVE BEEN THE RESULTS?

JENNIFER: I CAN'T SAY FOR SURE IN EVERY STATE, BUT IN SOME THE TESTING GROUNDS HAVE HELD UP.

SO STATES HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ADOPT LAWS THAT RESTRICT SEVERELY TEACHING ABOUT RACISM AND GENDER.

THEY HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN PASSING BATHROOM BILLS THAT PREVENT TRANSGENDER STUDENTS FROM USING THE BATHROOM OR LOCKER ROOM AT SCHOOL, THAT MATCHES THEIR GENDER IDENTITY.

THOSE HAVE BEEN IN PLACE.

A NUMBER OF STATES HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN LIMITING THE TYPE OF MATERIAL THAT CAN BE AT A SCHOOL, A SCHOOL LIBRARY OR ON A TEACHER'S BOOKSHELF.

WE ARE SEEING A COPYING OF THAT AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL NOW, WHERE WE ARE HEARING FOR THE FIRST TIME, AT LEAST IN AS MANY YEARS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THAT THEY WANT TO PUSH CERTAIN TYPES OF CURRICULUM AND TEACHING INTO CLASSROOMS.

JOHN: JENNIFER SMITH RICHARDS OF PROPUBLICA, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

JENNIFER: THANK YOU.

♪