MATTER, WHETHER IT'S MANUFACTURING HERE AT HOME OR OVERSEAS.

>> JUST AS THE SCHOOL YEAR IS ABOUT TO BEGIN, NEW RESEARCH SHOWS A RECORD NUMBER OF TEACHER TURNOVERS LAST YEAR IN WISCONSIN.

THAT'S LEAVING THEIR DISTRICTS OR THEIR TEACHING PROFESSIONAL TOGETHER.

WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THESE TRENDS?

THE WISCONSIN POLICY FORUM JUST RELEASED A REPORT ON TURNOVER RATES FOR TEACHERS, SPANNING FROM 2009 TO 2023, DESCRIBING LAST YEAR AS A SURGE.

THE TURNOVER RATE WAS NEARLY 16% WITH MORE THAN 9,700 TURNOVERS LAST YEAR, UP FROM ABOUT 11 1/2% WITH MORE THAN 97,000 TURNOVERS OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS.

WE TURN TO THE FOLLOWS FORUM SENIOR EDUCATION RESEARCHER, SARA SHAW, FOR MORE ON THIS.

THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

>> MY PLEASURE, FREDERICA.

>> DID THESE NUMBERS SURPRISE YOU AT THE END OF THIS RESEARCH?

>> THE PANDEMIC NUMBERS AS A WHOLE, STARTING WITH 2021, WAS THAT FIRST FULL YEAR OF THE PANDEMIC, WERE A LITTLE BIT OF A MYSTERY BOX.

WE HAD BEEN HEARING CONCERNS OF TURNOVER FOR YEARS.

IT'S PART OF WHY WE WANTED TO LOOK INTO THE ISSUE.

AND IN 2021, INSTEAD OF SEEING A SURGE, WE ACTUALLY SEE A DIP TO BELOW AVERAGE TURNOVER, AND IN HINDSIGHT IS ALWAYSHINDSIGHINDSF COVID WERE STAYING PUT EITHER BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMIC SECURITY AND/OR WANTING TO BE THERE FOR THEIR KIDS, AND THEN 2022, IT STARTS CREEPING UP, AND BY THE TIME WE HIT 2023, IT'S THE HIGHEST RATE OF TURNOVER THAT WE SAW IN THE YEAR STUDIED.

THAT INCLUDED THE HIGHEST RATE OF MOVES, SO TEACHERS MOVING FROM ONE DISTRICT TO TEACH IN ANOTHER DISTRICT AND LEAVES, WHICH ARE TEACHERS WHO ARE LEAVING THE PUBLIC SCHOOL CLASSROOM IN WISCONSIN ALTOGETHER FOR WHATEVER REASON.

>> WHAT DID YOU FIND OUT ABOUT WHY THIS IS HAPPENING?

>> THOSE LEAVES IN PARTICULAR AND THE MOVES SEEM TO BE TIED NOT ONLY TO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE THINK ABOUT SPECIFIC EDUCATION, WHICH IS TO SAY THE STRAIN OF THE PANDEMIC, THE INCREASE POLITICIZATION AND OTHER EXTERNAL FACTORS REALLY PUTTING PRESSURE ON THE SYSTEM, BUT ALSO THE BROADER ECONOMY.

SO IN THE SAME WAY THAT IN 2010 AND 2011 WHERE WE HAD THE GREAT RECESSION BECAUSE TEACHERS WERE STAYING PUT BECAUSE TEACHING IS A STEADY PAYCHECK, THE REACTION TO THE ECONOMY IN THE LAST YEAR WHERE IT'S VERY LOW UNEMPLOYMENT RATES, A VERY TIGHT LABOR MARKET AND HIGH INFLATION SEEMS TO HAVE GIVEN TEACHERS MORE MOBILITY, AGAIN, NOT JUST TO LEAVE THE PROFESSION, BUT ALSO BETWEEN DISTRICTS.

>> WHERE IS THE TURNOVER MOST ACUTE IN WISCONSIN?

>> SO IT IS GENERALLY WIDESPREAD ISSUE.

WE DIDN'T HAVE A SINGLE DISTRICT TYPE THAT WE LOOKED AT THAT WAS UNDER A 10% TURNOVER RATE ON AVERAGE, BUT IT IS BEING FELT MOST IN OUR DISTRICTS THAT CAN LEAST AFFORD TO BE ABLE TO HAVE SUCH TURNOVER.

SO SPECIFICALLY OUR SMALLEST RURAL DISTRICTS WERE REALLY HIT HARD.

THAT'S LOOKING OVER THE FULL-TIME PERIOD THAT WE STUDIED.

IN ADDITION, OUR DISTRICTS THAT ARE SERVING MAJORITY OF LOW INCOME STUDENTS AND THE MAJORITY OF STUDENTS -- A MAJORITY OF STUDENTS OF COLOR WERE ALSO SEEING HIGHER THAN AVERAGE RATES OF TURNOVER, AND THAT'S PARTICULARLY CONCERNING DURING THE COVID YEARS WHEN, OF COURSE, THE PANDEMIC CREATED SO MUCH INSTABILITY.

A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TEACHER TURNOVER IS NOT A BAD THING.

IT MIGHT BE JUST THE WAY THAT PEOPLE MOVE BETWEEN JOBS TRYING TO FIND A GOOD FIT, BUT ELEVATED LEVELS IS WHEN WE START TO WORRY.

>> SO WHERE DO ELEVATED LEVELS OF TURNOVER LEAVE THE CHILDREN THAT THESE TEACHERS ARE TEACHING?

>> IT LEAVES CHILDREN WITHOUT CONSISTENCY.

SO THAT MEANS BOTH WITHOUT CONSISTENCY OF RELATIONSHIPS, OF BEING ABLE TO KNOW THERE'S AN ADULT IN THE CLASSROOM FOR THEM, BUT ALSO CONSISTENCY IN THE SCHOOL CULTURE.

IT CAN BE VERY HARD IN A SCHOOL THAT IS FACING A LOT OF TURNOVER OF TEACHERS TO MAINTAIN AN IDENTITY OR TO MAINTAIN ANY KIND OF CHANGE IN IMPROVEMENT PROCESSES THAT A LEADER OR A DISTRICT MIGHT BE TRYING TO UNDERTAKE SO IT CAN BE DONE, AND CERTAINLY IN CASES WHERE PERHAPS THERE'S A LESS EFFECTIVE TEACHER BEING REPLACED BY A MORE EFFECTIVE TEACHER, MAYBE THAT'S A GOOD THING, BUT THAT'S OFTEN NOT THE WAY THE MOVEMENT GOES AND TYPICALLY THE STUDENTS PAY THE PRICE.

>> SO BLACK TEACHERS IN YOUR RESEARCH HAD SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER TURNOVER RATES THAN WHITE TEACHERS.

WHAT EXPLAINS THAT?

>> SOME OF IT IS EXPLAINED CIRCUMSTANCE SUBSTANTIALLY IN THAT THESE TEACHERS WHO ARE BLACK ARE ALSO CONCENTRATED IN DISTRICTS THAT SAW OVERALL TURNOVER RATES THAT WERE HIGHER FOR ALL RACES AND ETHNICITIES OF TEACHERS, SO IT MAY BE THAT IT'S THESE DISTRICTS THAT AS A WHOLE ARE EXPERIENCING HIGHER THAN AVERAGE TURNOVER.

IT COULD ALSO BE SOMETHING UNIQUE TO THE EXPERIENCE OF THE TEACHERS, AND THE FORUM HAS IN THE PAST RECORDED ON TEACHER DIVERSITY AND THE BARRIERS THAT TEACHERS OF COLOR FACE IN GETTING TO THE CLASSROOM IN THE FIRST PLACE AND THEN REMAINING THERE FEELING LIKE THEY ARE VALUED AS PART OF A SCHOOL.

>> WITH REALLY JUST ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT, WHAT ARE THE POLICY PRESCRIPTIONS FOR RETAINING TEACHERS?

>> WELL, THE FIRST IS TO THINK ABOUT IT AS RETENTION.

OFTENTIMES WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE PAY PLAN FOR TEACHERS, THERE'S A LOT OF FOCUS ON RECRUITMENT AND GETTING NEW TEACHERS INTO THE CLASSROOM.

THIS REPORT SHOWS US THAT WE NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT RETENTION JUST AS MUCH AS WE'RE BRINGING NEW TEACHERS IN AND NOT KEEPING THEM IN THE CLASSROOM, THE PROBLEM CONTINUES.

THERE ARE TAILORED SOLUTIONS THAT CAN HELP RETAIN TEACHERS, WHETHER IT'S FIGURING OUT HARD-TO-STAFF AREAS, HARD-TO-STAFF SUBJECT AREAS AND SCHOOLS AND ATTACHING WHETHER IT'S SUPPORTS OR FINANCIAL INCENTIVES TO REALLY HELP TARGET WHERE THE NEEDS ARE TO RETAIN TEACHERS THERE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

SARA SHAW FROM THE WISCONSIN POLICY FORUM, THANKS VERY MUCH.