SOUTH DAKOTA PUBLIC BROADCASTING.

♪ >> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "SOUTH DAKOTA FOCUS," I'M JACKIE HENDRY.

IN HONOR OF EARTH DAY, WE'RE SPENDING THE ENTIRE HOUR DISCUSSING A VARIETY OF ISSUES RELATED TO OUR ENVIRONMENT.

WE'LL HEAR ABOUT THE NEW ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES MAJOR AT AUGUSTANA UNIVERSITY AND HOW STUDENT-LED PROJECTS ARE CHANGING THE LANDSCAPE.

WE'LL ALSO HEAR FROM NATIONALLY-KNOWN ENVIRONMENTALIST HUNTER LOVINS.

SHE EXPLAINS WHAT YOU CAN DO TO SUPPORT THE PLANET AND YOUR LOCAL ECONOMY AT THE SAME TIME.

AND WE CONTINUE OUR SERIES "GOOD NEIGHBORS" WITH EFFORTS TO PROVIDE FRESH PRODUCE THROUGHOUT THE ROSEBUD RESERVATION.

BUT, FIRST, HERE'S TONIGHT'S MAIN FOCUS.

THE NEXT FEW YEARS WILL SHAPE THE FUTURE OF THE BLACK HILLS NATIONAL FOREST.

THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE IS FOCUSED ON WRITING A NEW MANAGEMENT PLAN DESIGNED TO PREVENT OVERCUTTING WITHOUT KILLING A TIMBER INDUSTRY THAT'S ALREADY IN DECLINE.

IT'S A DELICATE BALANCE.

SDPB'S SETH TUPPER REPORTS.

>> MANAGING THE MILLION PLUS ACRES OF THE BLACK HILLS NATIONAL FOREST HAS ALWAYS REQUIRED STRATEGIC COMPROMISES.

TERRI JAIN IS A FOREST SERVICE RESEARCHER.

>> THE BLACK HILLS HAS HAD A LONG HISTORY OF TIMBER HARVESTS, WHICH HAS CONTRIBUTED TO THE RESILIENCE OF THIS FOREST, BEGINNING IN 1899.

>> JAIN'S RECENT VIRTUAL PRESENTATION OFFERED INSIGHT INTO HOW HISTORY HAS SHAPED THE HILLS.

THAT COMPLICATED HISTORY INVOLVES LAND HELD SACRED TO THE OCETI SAKOWIN PEOPLE AS THE BIRTHPLACE OF THEIR NATION.

WHEN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT BROKE TREATY PROMISES, SETTLERS AND MINERS FLOODED INTO THE REGION.

IT WAS A TIME WHEN LOGGERS WERE CLEARCUTTING PONDEROSA PINE TREES TO BUILD SETTLEMENTS AND SECURE MINING TUNNELS.

IN 1899, THE HOMESTAKE MINING COMPANY AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAW THE TREES WERE VANISHING.

SO THEY CAME UP WITH A PLAN.

THEY AGREED HOMESTAKE WOULD PAY TO CUT TIMBER ON THE NEWLY ESTABLISHED NATIONAL FOREST.

THE GOVERNMENT WOULD DECIDE WHERE LOGGERS COULD CUT AND HOW MUCH.

TODAY, THE FOREST SERVICE STILL USES THAT SYSTEM TO SELL LOGGING RIGHTS IN NATIONAL FORESTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

JAIN SAYS THAT WON'T CHANGE.

>> IT SHOULD ALWAYS BE CONSIDERED AS A CRITICAL COMPONENT IN FOREST MANAGEMENT.

>> BUT SHE SAYS THE AMOUNT OF CURRENT LOGGING IN THE BLACK HILLS IS UNSUSTAINABLE.

THE FOREST IS NOW AT A CROSSROADS MUCH LIKE THE ONE IN 1899.

THIS TIME, IT'S NOT JUST MINING FORCING THE ISSUE.

JAIN SAYS IT'S NATURE RECOILING FROM MORE THAN A CENTURY OF HUMAN MANAGEMENT.

OVER TIME, FORESTS NATURALLY THIN THEMSELVES.

WILDFIRES, TREE-KILLING BUGS AND OTHER NATURAL FORCES CREATE SPACE TO LET OLD TREES GROW BIGGER.

IN THAT NATURAL SYSTEM, GRASS AND ANIMALS THRIVE.

JAIN SAYS PEOPLE HAVE INTERRUPTED THOSE FORCES.

>> THROUGHOUT MOST OF THE LAST CENTURY, WE THOUGHT DISTURBANCES WERE BAD, AND WE TRIED TO STOP DISTURBANCES, EITHER BY SUPPRESSING WILDFIRES OR THINKING WE COULD MANAGE OUR WAY OUT OF DISTURBANCES BY HARVESTING TREES.

>> NOW SHE SAYS, THAT THINKING HAS CHANGED.

>> THE PAST HUNDRED YEARS HAVE TAUGHT US THAT WE NEED TO CONSIDER AND INTEGRATE DISTURBANCE INTO FOREST MANAGEMENT, RATHER THAN TRYING TO CONTROL IT.

>> BUT FOR THE BLACK HILLS, THE REALIZATION CAME TOO LATE.

THE FOREST GREW DENSE WITH SMALLER TREES.

THAT MADE IT EASIER FOR FIRES AND DEADLY BUGS TO JUMP FROM ONE TREE TO THE NEXT.

SINCE 2000, THE BLACK HILLS SUFFERED THE THREE BIGGEST WILDFIRES IN ITS RECORDED HISTORY AND ITS SECOND-BIGGEST MOUNTAIN PINE BEETLE INFESTATION.

MILLIONS OF TREES DIED.

MEANWHILE, JAIN SAYS LOGGING CONTINUED AT A PACE THAT WAS DETERMINED YEARS EARLIER.

>> WHICH RESULTED IN A DOUBLE WHAMMY.

>> THE FOREST COULDN'T KEEP UP, AND THE RESULT IS A DRASTIC DECREASE IN THE NUMBER OF TREES BIG ENOUGH TO HARVEST AS TIMBER.

JAIN SAYS CLIMATE CHANGE COULD MAKE THINGS WORSE.

IT COULD SHORTEN WINTER AND MAKE WILDFIRE SEASON LONGER.

IT COULD ALSO HELP BUGS.

>> COLD WINTER TEMPERATURES KILL MOUNTAIN PINE BEETLE LARVA; HOWEVER, IF THE BLACK HILLS GETS WARMER WINTER TEMPERATURES, THIS MAY EXTEND BEETLE INFESTATIONS.

>> SHE SAYS CURRENT LOGGING LEVELS IN THE BLACK HILLS NATIONAL FOREST ARE TWICE WHAT THE FOREST CAN SUSTAIN LONG-TERM.

SO THE FOREST SERVICE IS COMING UP WITH A NEW FOREST PLAN.

THAT PLAN COULD INFLUENCE HARVEST LIMITS FOR THE NEXT 15 YEARS.

IN THE MEANTIME, THE FOREST SERVICE HAS ALREADY CUT BACK ON TIMBER SALES FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS.

THE TIMBER INDUSTRY IS FEELING THE EFFECTS.

NEIMAN ENTERPRISES PLANS TO CLOSE ITS HILL CITY SAWMILL IN MAY.

THAT WILL ELIMINATE 125 JOBS.

COMPANY PRESIDENT JIM NEIMAN BLAMES THE FOREST SERVICE FOR LETTING THE WOODS GET TOO THICK.

>> WE TRIED TO TELL THEM IN THE '70S, '80S AND '90S THAT YOU BETTER GET MORE CAPACITY IN HERE AND REDUCE THIS INVENTORY OR YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE BUGS AND FIRES, AND THEY WOULDN'T LISTEN.

>> NEIMAN SAYS BIG REDUCTIONS IN TIMBER SALES MIGHT FORCE HIM TO CLOSE HIS OTHER TWO BLACK HILLS SAWMILLS IN SPEARFISH AND HULETT, WYOMING.

HE SAYS THE RESULTING DOMINO EFFECT COULD WIPE OUT THE ENTIRE BLACK HILLS TIMBER INDUSTRY AND ITS 1,400 JOBS.

NEIMAN SAYS THE RESULT WOULD BE NO LOGGERS TO HELP MANAGE THE FOREST.

HE SAYS THE FOREST COULD THEN GROW DENSE AGAIN, LEADING TO THE SAME PROBLEMS FACED NOW.

WHILE NEIMAN ARGUES FOR CONTINUED LOGGING, TWO ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS WANT A MORATORIUM ON TIMBER SALES.

ONE OF THOSE GROUPS HAS SUED THE FOREST SERVICE OVER SIMILAR ISSUES IN THE PAST.

THE FOREST SERVICE DOES NOT PLAN TO MAKE DRASTIC CHANGES IN LOGGING LIMITS WHILE IT WORKS ON A NEW FOREST PLAN.

JACQUE BUCHANAN IS A DEPUTY REGIONAL FORESTER.

>> WE DON'T WANT TO DO A SWEEPING CHANGE AND THEN HAVE TO COME BACK AROUND AND CHANGE IT.

SO WE'RE GOING TO BE VERY THOUGHTFUL, RECOGNIZING ALL THE FACTORS AND ALL THE PARTIES THAT ARE IMPACTED AND THE CONCERNS THAT FOLKS HAVE AROUND THAT HARVEST LEVEL.

>> THERE IS ONE PERSON ALREADY TALKING WITH MANY OF THE PARTIES INVOLVED ABOUT POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS.

SOUTH DAKOTA CONGRESSMAN DUSTY JOHNSON HAS MET WITH CONSERVATIONISTS, LOGGERS AND THE FOREST SERVICE.

HE THINKS THERE ARE WAYS TO SAVE THE TIMBER INDUSTRY WITHOUT OVERCUTTING THE FOREST.

>> EVERYBODY LOVES THIS FOREST.

EVERYBODY ACKNOWLEDGES THAT A HEALTHY TIMBER INDUSTRY IS A CRITICALLY IMPORTANT PART OF KEEPING THIS FOREST HEALTHY.

WE'VE TALKED ABOUT JOBS AND THAT'S IMPORTANT.

BUT WE ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'VE GOT THIS RESOURCE LONG TERM.

I THINK THERE'S AN AWARENESS AND UNDERSTANDING THAT WE NEED TO BE MORE INNOVATIVE AND EVEN MORE CREATIVE IN THE FUTURE IF WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT THE TRAJECTORY OF THIS FOREST AND THESE JOBS CONTINUES TO BE STRONG.

>> JOHNSON SAYS THE FOREST SERVICE NEEDS HELP OVERCOMING CHRONIC STAFFING SHORTAGES THAT MAKE TIMBER SALES DIFFICULT.

HE SAYS PARTS OF THE FOREST CONSIDERED TOO RUGGED SHOULD BE RE-EXAMINED TO ALLOW LOGGING.

AND HE SAYS THERE MAY BE NEW USES FOR SMALLER TREES.

FOR SOUTH DAKOTA PUBLIC BROADCASTING, I'M SETH TUPPER IN RAPID CITY.

♪ >> CONGRESSMAN DUSTY JOHNSON IS SOUTH DAKOTA'S LONE VOICE IN THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

HE'S SPENT RECENT WEEKS DISCUSSING THE FUTURE OF THE BLACK HILLS TIMBER INDUSTRY WITH A VARIETY OF STAKEHOLDERS, AND HE'S NOW PROPOSING LEGISLATION HE SAYS WILL SOLVE SOME OF THE KEY PROBLEMS.

HE JOINED US EARLIER TO DISCUSS THE FIRE ACT AND HIS RECORD ON OTHER ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES.

SO, CONGRESSMAN DUSTY JOHNSON, THANKS SO MUCH FOR TAKING TIME TO JOIN US ON "SOUTH DAKOTA FOCUS," WELCOME.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO, WE'RE GOING TO JUMP RIGHT IN.

IN LATE MARCH, THE FOREST SERVICE RELEASED ITS REPORT CALLING FOR, REALLY, A SIZABLE DECREASE IN TIMBER PRODUCTION IN THE BLACK HILLS.

ALREADY THE HILL CITY SAWMILL, AS ANNOUNCE -- HAS ANNOUNCED PLANS TO CLOSE.

I KNOW YOU'VE MET WITH A WHOLE LOT OF STAKEHOLDERS RELATED TO THIS ISSUE.

AND I WANT TO START WITH, I KNOW YOU MET WITH A COUPLE TIMBER PROFESSIONALS WHO HAVE LOST THEIR JOB BECAUSE OF THIS SITUATION.

ON TWITTER YOU CALLED IT ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL EXPERIENCES YOU'VE HAD IN CONGRESS.

SO I WONDER IF YOU CAN TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT YOU LEARNED FROM THAT MEETING.

>> THESE WERE INCREDIBLE GENTLEMEN.

I MEAN, THEY WEREN'T COMPLAINERS.

THEY WERE NOT ANGRY, THEY WERE NOT BLAMING ANYBODY, THEY JUST LAID OUT THE SITUATION AS THEY SAW IT.

AND THEY HAVE SEEN HOW MANAGED FOREST IS A HEALTHY FOREST, THEY HAVE SEEN HOW THEIR FAMILIES HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GROW UP IN HILL CITY, A COMMUNITY THEY REALLY LOVE, AND THEY TALKED A LOT ABOUT HOW MUCH THEY LOVED THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND WHAT A GOOD JOB IT DID MAKING SURE THAT THEIR KIDS GOT A GREAT EDUCATION.

BOTH OF THESE GUYS ARE REALLY FORCED TO REIMAGINE WHAT THEIR LIVES WILL LOOK LIKE, PROBABLY HAVING TO MOVE OUTSIDE OF THE COMMUNITY THEY LOVE.

THE FACT THAT THAT STORY CAME WITHOUT ANY BITTERNESS, WITHOUT ANY ANGER WAS REALLY REMARKABLE TO ME.

THEY JUST WANTED US TO DO BETTER SO THAT OTHER PEOPLE, AT OTHER SAW MILLS DIDN'T HAVE THE SAME FATE.

>> AND EXPLAIN FOR FOLKS WHO HAVEN'T BEEN WATCHING THIS AS CLOSELY, THEY MIGHT SAY, WELL, THERE'S A WHOLE HUGE FOREST OUT HERE, WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE'S NOT ENOUGH OPPORTUNITY FOR TIMBER PRODUCTION TO CONTINUE?

FROM WHAT YOU LEARNED FROM THOSE PROFESSIONALS, WALK THROUGH THE DISCONNECT.

>> YEAH, AND I SHOULD MAKE IT CLEAR, AS YOU NOTED, I DIDN'T TALK JUST TO FOLKS WHO WORK AT THE SAWMILL.

I ALSO TALKED TO THE FOREST SERVICE, TALKED TO THE FOLKS THE ONES WHO OWN THE SAWMILL.

I'M REALLY TRYING TO GATHER A LOT OF INFORMATION.

I'M NOT A BUMPER SLOGAN KIND OF GUY.

I'M AN ACTUAL SOLUTIONS KIND OF GUY.

AND, SO, I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE TECHNICAL EXPERTS ARE SAYING, THE TECHNICAL EXPERTS ARE SAYING THAT BECAUSE OF A LOT OF THE MOUNTAIN PINE BEETLE KILL, THERE'S NOT AS MUCH INVENTORY IN THE FOREST AS THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN, SAY, 1990.

NOW, THERE'S A LOT MORE INVENTORY IN THAT FOREST THAN THERE WAS WHEN, YOU KNOW, WHITE SETTLERS FIRST CAME TO THE BLACK HILLS.

BUT WE WANT A ROBUST FOREST, WE WANT A HEALTHY FOREST.

WE KNOW THAT GOOD MANAGEMENT HELPS MAKE FOR A HEALTHY FOREST.

BUT WE DON'T WANT TO TAKE MORE TIMBER OUT OF THAT FOREST THAT IT CAN REGROW.

SO THE TECHNICAL REPORT SAYS THAT THEY WANTED TO CUT THE HARVEST IN HALF.

NOW, MY PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THAT THEY ONLY LOOKED AT 700,000 ACRES OF THE BLACK HILLS NATIONAL FOREST, THOSE AREAS THAT HAVE BEEN HISTORICALLY HARVESTED.

THERE'S 1.2 MILLION ACRES IN THE BLACK HILLS NATIONAL FOREST.

AND, SO, I THINK BY GETTING CREATIVE, BY ALLOWING FOR SOME MORE TIMBER ROADS IN THE FOREST, BY ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THERE'S NEW TECHNOLOGY THAT MAKES IT EASIER TO HARVEST TIMBER ON TOP GRAPH AREICALLY DIFFICULT TERRAIN, I THINK WE WOULD BE ABLE TO GET THOSE HARVEST NUMBERS BACK UP TO A POINT WHERE WE WOULD BE ABLE TO PROTECT THE FOREST AND PROTECT THOSE TIMBER JOBS.

>> AND I BELIEVE YOU ALSO MET WITH FOLKS WHO WOULD BE CATEGORIZED, I GUESS, AS LIKE LOCAL CONSERVATIONISTS, OTHER FOLKS WITH INTEREST IN THE LAND WHO AREN'T NECESSARILY DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THE TIMBER INDUSTRY, PER SE.

WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN HEARING FROM THOSE FOLKS ABOUT BALANCING THESE TWO NEEDS?

>> YEAH.

THEIR MESSAGE IS LOUD AND CLEAR AND THAT IS THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO OVERHARVEST THE BLACK HILLS NATIONAL FOREST.

THEY THINK IT IS AN INCREDIBLE ASSET AND THEY WANT TO TAKE CARE OF IT.

NOW, I WOULD MENTION, THOSE VALUES WERE EMBODIED BY EVERYBODY THAT I TALKED TO.

NOBODY WANTS TO OVERHARVEST THE FOREST.

I THINK WE KNOW, THIS IS THE GOOSE.

THAT EVERY SINGLE YEAR LAYS THE GOLDEN EGG OF AN INCREDIBLY SPECIAL PLACE, FOR MANY, A SACRED PLACE.

WE WANT TO PROTECT THAT.

I THINK WE CAN DO THAT WHILE ALSO MAKING SURE THAT WE ALLOW FOR A STRONG TIMBER INDUSTRY.

AND HERE'S WHY THAT'S IMPORTANT.

WE KNOW THAT IN OTHER STATES WHERE THEY HAVE LOGGED THAT TIMBER INDUSTRY, THEIR FORESTS HAVE GOTTEN SICK BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT HAD THE DEDICATED PROFESSIONALS WHO HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GO OUT AND THIN THAT FOREST, A THINNING FOREST ALLOWS FOR TREES TO GROW MORE QUICKLY, MEANING THEY ABSORB MORE CARBON, IT MEANS THAT FIRE DANGER IS LOWER AND NOT AS INTENSE.

A MANAGED FOREST IS ABSOLUTELY A BETTER FOREST.

>> AND, CLEARLY RELATED TO THIS ISSUE, YOU'RE INTRODUCING THE FORESTRY IMPROVEMENTS TO RESTORE THE ENVIRONMENT ACT, OR THE F.I.R.E.

ACT, WALK THROUGH OUR VIEWERS WHAT THIS ACT INVOLVES.

>> WELL, POLITICIANS ARE REALLY GOOD ABOUT COMPLAINING ABOUT PROBLEMS AND THEY'RE GENERALLY PRETTY GOOD ABOUT ASSIGNING BLAME.

THERE ARE GENERALLY LESS -- THEY ARE GENERALLY LESS GOOD AT ACTUALLY FINDING SOLUTIONS.

BUT WE WORKED HARD TO IDENTIFY AN AREA WHERE I THINK WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO SERVE ALL OF THESE KEY STAKEHOLDERS.

WE KNOW THAT A MANAGED FOREST WILL DRIVE DOWN THE LIKELIHOOD OF FOREST FIRE AND MAKE IT LESS INTENSE, BUT THERE WILL STILL BE FIRES.

AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE DAMAGED AND DEAD TREES.

SOMETIMES WE MAKE IT TOO DIFFICULT TO GET THAT -- IT CAN BE MADE DIFFICULT TO GET THAT TIMBER OUT OF THE FOREST.

IF YOU CARE ABOUT CARBON, MY BILL IS GOOD, RATHER THAN ALLOW THAT WOOD TO BE IN THE FOREST AND DECAY AND RELEASE THE CARBON BACK INTO THE ATMOSPHERE, WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT TIMBER AND TURN IT INTO THINGS THAT FOR 100 YEARS WILL BE ABLE TO HOLD THAT CARBON, DESK, CHAIRS, YOU KNOW, BUILDING MATERIALS.

IF YOU CARE ABOUT A HEALTHY FOREST.

LET'S GET THAT TIMBER OUT OF THERE SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE MORE FOREST FIRES.

IF YOU CARE ABOUT TIMBER INDUSTRY JOBS, LET'S ALLOW THOSE HARDWORKING FOLKS TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT DOWNED TIMBER AND TURN IT INTO FOREST PRODUCTS.

WHOA MY BILL -- WHAT MY BILL IS DOES IS THREE THINGS.

NUMBER ONE, IT REQUIRES THE FOREST SERVICE TO WITHIN 60 DAYS, GO THROUGH ALL THE ADMINISTRATIVE HASSLES TO BE ABLE TO DO A FOREST SALE, AN AUCTION FOR A PRIVATE SECTOR PERSON TO GO IN AND DEAL WITH THAT DOWNED TIMBER.

NUMBER TWO, IT MAKES IT EASIER, IT CUTS THROUGH SOME OF THE RED TAPE SO THAT THE TIMBER INDUSTRY CAN GET THAT TIMBER, GET IT WITHIN 200 FEET OF A ROADWAY, THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH A FULL ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW.

NUMBER THREE, IT STREAMLINES THE JUDICIAL REVIEW SO WE DON'T HAVE THESE THINGS TRAPPED IN COURTS FOR YEARS WHILE THE WOOD DECAYS.

YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'VE GOT AN IDEA HERE THAT CAN SERVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT STAKEHOLDERS.

IT'S GOOD POLICY.

>> A LOT OF THESE SOUND LIKE PRETTY COMMON-SENSE SOLUTIONS TO THE CURRENT ISSUE, LIKE THE 60-DAY DEADLINE AND THINGS LIKE THIS AND ACTUALLY USING SOME OF THAT TIMBER THAT'S AVAILABLE.

WHY HASN'T THIS ALREADY BEEN THE PROCESS?

IS THERE A STAFFING ISSUE?

IS THERE A FUNDING ISSUE?

WHAT'S BEEN THE HOLDUP IN THIS?

>> WELL, THERE ARE A FEW.

I MEAN, CLEARLY, FOREST SERVICE DOES HAVE SOME STAFFING ISSUES.

THEY'VE MADE SOME PROGRESS ON THIS IN THE BLACK HILLS NATIONAL FOREST MORE RECENTLY.

BUT THEY STILL HAVE TOO MANY VACANT POSITIONS AND IT TAKES THEM TOO LONG TO HIRE PEOPLE INTO THOSE JOBS.

AN EVEN BIGGER PROBLEM, I'LL BE HONEST, MY BILL CALLS FOR CATEGORICAL EXCLUSION, WHICH IS A NARROW EXCEPTION TO THE ENVIRONMENTAL RULES.

IT SAYS THAT RATHER THAN GO THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS AND DO A FULL ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW, IF THIS IS WITHIN 200 FEET OF A ROADWAY, WE'RE GOING TO ALLOW YOU TO GO GET THAT TIMBER WITHOUT AN ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW.

THAT IS GENERALLY THE KIND OF EXCEPTION THAT FOLKS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE, THE DEMOCRATS, HAVE NEVER BEEN WILLING TO AGREE TO OUTSIDE OF A FARM BILL WHERE THEY'RE ABLE TO HORSE TRADE FOR SOME OTHER THINGS THAT THEY VALUE.

I'M HOPEFUL WE CAN GET THIS DONE OUTSIDE OF A FARM BILL.

BUT I'M CLEAR-EYED ABOUT THE FACT THAT IT IS GOING TO BE HARD TO GET DONE.

>> AND FOR FOLKS WHO MIGHT BE CONCERNED, SAY, IF WE REMOVE TOO MUCH OF THAT TIMBER, THAT MAYBE WILDLIFE USES AS A HABITAT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IS THERE A CHECK AND BALANCE INVOLVED HERE OR IS THAT LEFT UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL MANAGERS?

>> WELL, I MEAN, LET'S KEEP IN MIND THAT WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT LIVING TREES HERE.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DOWNED AND DAMAGED TIMBER.

AND THERE WILL BE LOTS AND LOTS OF HABITAT.

THERE ARE MORE TREES OUT THERE, MORE DOWNED TREES THAN WE WOULD EVER BE ABLE TO GET TO.

AND REMEMBER WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT WITHIN A COUPLE HUNDRED FEET OF A HIGHWAY ROADWAY.

ROADWAY.

SO THIS IS A RELATIVELY MODEST SOLUTION BUT IT DOES MOVE US IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

>> WE'RE GOING TO SHIFT GEARS A LITTLE BIT TO A COUPLE DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE GIVEN YOU A COUPLE DIFFERENT KIND OF DESIGNATIONS TO SOME OF THE WORK THAT YOU DO IN CONGRESS.

I WANT TO START WITH THE LEAGUE OF CONSERVATION VOTERS, WHICH IS FOCUSED, OF COURSE, ON ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION AND VOTING RECORDS AND THINGS LIKE THIS.

THEY GAVE YOU A 10% RATING FOR VOTES IN 2020, ONE OF THE BIG VOTES THAT THEY MENTIONED, FOR INSTANCE, WAS -- I SHOULDN'T SAY VOTES -- ONE OF YOUR BIG ACTIONS WAS TO PUSH FOR CONTINUED CONSTRUCTION OF THE KEYSTONE XCEL PIPELINE, I WONDER IF YOU CAN TALK A LITTLE BIT AND RESPOND TO THAT DESIGNATION.

>> YEAH.

THIS IS A GROUP THAT IS MORE PURIST IN THEIR APPROACH.

I MEAN, LISTEN, I GET IT.

I'M A BELIEVER IN WORKING LANDS.

I BELIEVE THAT FARMERS, RANCHERS, CAN BE GOOD STEWARDS AND HAVE BEEN GOOD STEWARDS.

THERE ARE A LOT OF ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS OUT THERE THAT, FRANKLY, DON'T WANT THAT KIND OF PRIVATE OWNERSHIP.

THEY'RE PUSHING FOR 30 BY 30, THEY WANT 30% OF ALL OF AMERICA'S LAND MASS TO BE LOCKED UP AND OWNED BY GOVERNMENT BY 2030.

AND WHEN YOU PUSH BACK AGAINST THAT IDEA, WHEN YOU'RE IN FAVOR OF WORKING LANDS, AS I AM, THEY DO GET PERSNICKETY, THEY'RE GOING TO DING YOU ON THEIR SCORE CARDS.

I WOULD MENTION WITH THE KEYSTONE XCEL PIPELINE, WE KNOW, IT'S BEEN ARGUABLE, YOU CAN'T FIND ANYBODY WHO KNOWS THE DATA WOULD DISAGREE WITH ME, THAT PIPELINES ARE THE SAFEST ENVIRONMENTAL WAY TO MOVE THIS PRODUCT.

IT'S WAY SAFER THAN OCEAN LINERS, WAY SAFER THAN PUTTING IN RAILROAD TRAINS, IT'S WAY SAFER THAN PUTTING, YOU KNOW, THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF TRUCKS ON THE INTERSTATE.

AND, SO, IF YOU'RE REALLY -- IF YOU REALLY HONESTLY CARE ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION IN A PRACTICAL WAY, YOU WANT THAT PRODUCT HAULED BY A PIPELINE.

BUT, MORE TO THE POINT, I WOULD SAY THIS, I THINK REASONABLE PEOPLE CAN DISAGREE ABOUT THE FUTURE OF PIPELINES IN THIS COUNTRY.

BUT PRESIDENT BIDEN DIDN'T MAKE A DECISION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE KEYSTONE XCEL SHOULD MOVE FORWARD.

THAT DECISION HAD ALREADY BEEN MADE IN SOME INSTANCES TEN YEARS AGO.

BY DOZENS OF ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATORS AT THE LOCAL, STATE, AND FEDERAL LEVEL.

AND IF WE'RE GOING TO BE A COUNTRY THAT VALUES THE RULE OF LAW, THOSE DECISIONS, BY THE WAY, WERE JUDICIAL DECISIONS, THEY HAD TO BE BASED ON EVIDENCE IN THE RECORD, THE APPLICANT HAD TO MEET THEIR BURDEN APPROXIMATE OF PROOF IN THE -- BURDEN OF PROOF IN THE LAW, AND TO HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO EXERCISES A SUPER VETO AS A SUPER JUDGE TEN YEARS AFTER A DECISION HAS BEEN MADE I THINK IS A STARTLING STRIKE AGAINST THE RULE OF LAW AND I WOULD HOPE THAT THE LEAGUE OF CONSERVATION VOTERS COULD UNDERSTAND THAT AS WELL.

>> AND TO THAT POINT ABOUT THE SAFETY OF PIPELINES AND THINGS LIKE THIS, WITH THAT DATA, I DON'T HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF ME, SO I'LL TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT FOR THE TIME BEING, BUT I CAN'T HELP BUT THINK ABOUT MEMBERS OF THE STANDING ROCK SIOUX TRIBE AND OTHERS WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR SOURCE OF DRINKING WATER AND WITH THE CURRENT PASS OF THE PIPELINE, IF THAT WERE TO LEAK, HOW THAT WOULD IMPACT THEM.

I GUESS HOW WOULD YOU DEAL WITH THOSE CONCERNS THEN?

>> WELL, I WOULD SAY, I MEAN, THERE HAVE BEEN YEARS OF ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW ON THIS EXACT PROJECT, AND LITIGATING THE EXACT CLAIMS THAT YOU MADE.

AND EVERY SINGLE ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATORY AGENCY, AGAIN, AT THE STATE, FEDERAL AND LOCAL LEVEL, DOZENS OF THEM EVALUATED THOSE CLAIMS AND FOUND THEM WITHOUT MERIT.

THEY BELIEVE THAT THE -- THEY MET THEIR BURDEN OF PROOF UNDER THE LAW.

I WAS ON THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION WHEN THIS DECISION WAS MADE, WE SPENT A YEAR EVALUATING THOSE CLAIMS.

ALL TRIBAL PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO WERE ABLE TO HAVE THEIR VOICE HEARD, ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS THAT WANTED TO INTERVENE WERE ABLE TO HAVE THEIR VOICE HEARD, THEY WERE ABLE TO CALL WITNESSES, THEY WERE ABLE TO INTRODUCE EVIDENCE.

THAT'S HOW WE DO THINGS IN THIS COUNTRY.

WE DON'T MAKE DECISIONS ON ALLEGATIONS OR FACEBOOK POSTS OR HOT TAKES ON TWITTER.

WE ACTUALLY EVALUATE THEM IN A COURT OF LAW.

OUR DECISION WAS APPEALED TO THE SOUTH DAKOTA SUPREME COURT.

THE SOUTH DAKOTA SUPREME COURT VIA UNANIMOUS VOTE FOUND THAT WE HAD ANALYZED THOSE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES PROPERLY.

THOSE ARE THE KIND OF FACTS THAT ACTUALLY MATTER.

>> AND THEN THE FINAL THING I WANT TO TALK WITH YOU ABOUT IS THE CENTER FOR EFFECTIVE LAW MAKING HAS NAMED YOU THE MOST EFFECTIVE REPUBLICAN IN CONGRESS RELATED TO AGRICULTURE ISSUES.

AND I THINK YOU TOUCHED ON THIS JUST A MINUTE AGO.

PEOPLE SOMETIMES MISTAKENLY THINK THAT THE AG INDUSTRY AND ENVIRONMENTAL PRESERVATION ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

I GUESS WRAP IT UP FOR VIEWERS HOW YOU HAVE SEEN THOSE TWO INTERESTS OVERLAP IN YOUR ROLE IN CONGRESS.

>> WELL, AND I WOULD SAY, NUMBER ONE, IT'S A GREAT HONOR, I'VE ONLY BEEN IN CONGRESS TWO YEARS, SO TO BE -- 210 REPUBLICANS, TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED BY THE DATA, BY AN INDEPENDENT THIRD PARTY, I WAS THE MOST EFFECTIVE AT MOVING AGRICULTURAL LEGISLATION FORWARD, THAT WAS A GREAT SOURCE OF HONOR FOR OUR TEAM.

WE WANT TO SERVE SOUTH DAKOTA.

WE WANT TO SERVE RURAL AMERICA.

WE WANT TO SERVE THIS CONSTITUTION.

AND WE KNOW THAT BEING EFFECTIVE IS IMPORTANT.

LOTS OF PEOPLE CAN YELL AND SCREAM.

FEWER PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY GET SOLUTIONS.

SO, JUST TO YOUR POINT, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES IT EFFECTIVE IS THAT WE UNDERSTAND, WE NEED TO BRING ALL STAKEHOLDERS TO BEAR ON THESE PROBLEMS.

AND WE CANNOT CUT FARMERS AND RANCHERS OUT OF THESE SOLUTIONS.

THEY ARE THE EXPERTS.

THEY KNOW THE LAND.

THEY LOVE THE LAND.

AND, SO, WHETHER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BIOFUELS OR WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CRP, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THESE OTHER CONSERVATION PROGRAMS, THESE ARE THE MEN AND WOMEN OF AGRICULTURE WE'VE GOT TO HAVE AT THE TABLE TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

>> MY GUEST HAS BEEN U.S.

CONGRESSMAN DUSTY JOHNSON.

CONGRESSMAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON "SOUTH DAKOTA FOCUS."

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

♪ >> OUR NEXT GUESTS SERVED ON THE BLACK HILLS NATIONAL FOREST ADVISORY BOARD'S TASK FORCE ON TIMBER SUSTAINABILITY.

THEY REACHED VERY DIFFERENT CONCLUSIONS WHEN THEY REVIEWED THE FOREST SERVICE DATA, AND THEY'RE HEAR TO TELL US WHAT THEY EXPECT WILL HAPPEN NEXT.

FIRST WE WELCOME SOUTH DAKOTA STATE FORESTER GREG JOSTEN.

HE BELIEVES, IF ANYTHING, TIMBER PRODUCTION COULD ACTUALLY INCREASE IN THE NATIONAL FOREST.

HE JOINS US TONIGHT FROM ZOOM.

GREG JOSTEN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT.

WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU, JACKIE.

I GUESS WHAT I'D LIKE TO -- >> WE ALSO WELCOME BOB BURNS.

HE'S VICE CHAIRMAN OF THE -- HE'S PRESIDENT OF THE NORBECK SOCIETY, WHICH ADVOCATES FOR SUSTAINABLE PUBLIC LAND MANAGEMENT, WHO SUPPORTS THE FOREST SERVICE RECOMMENDATION TO REDUCE TIMBER PRODUCTION, JOINING US FROM OUR RAPID CITY STUDIO.

BOB BURNS, WELCOME TO YOU AS WELL.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> GREG, WE ARE GOING TO START WITH YOU AND KIND OF REVIEW THE ORIGINAL, I GUESS, ASSIGNMENT OF THE TASK FORCE, IF YOU CAN QUICKLY SUMMARIZE FOR US WHAT YOUR GROUP SET OUT TO DO.

>> THANK YOU, JACKIE.

BASICALLY WE WERE ASKED TO DO A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

WE WERE ASKED TO LOOK AT COMMERCIAL TIMBER PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT AND RECOMMEND NO MORE THAN A FIVE-YEAR PATHWAY TO SUSTAINABILITY REQUIREMENTS.

FOLLOWING A NUMBER OF CONSTRAINTS AND ASSUMPTIONS.

ONE OF THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCES WE HAD BETWEEN WHAT WE LOOKED AT AND WHAT THE RESEARCHERS LOOKED AT WAS THE AREA THAT WAS INVOLVED IN OUR REVIEW.

THE FOREST SERVICE RESEARCHERS WERE LOOKING AT AN AREA OF ABOUT 700,000 ACRES, WHICH IS CALLED THE PSEUDOBASE FOR TIMBER PRODUCTION.

THE NATIONAL FOREST ADVISORY BOARD TASK FORCE WAS ASKED TO LOOK AT NOT ONLY THE PSEUDOBASE BUT ALSO AREAS WHICH HAD TRADITIONALLY BEEN CONSIDERED UNSUITABLE FOR TIMBER HARVEST, INCLUDING WHITE SPRUCE, THE FOREST SERVICE RESEARCHERS JUST LOOKED AT PONDEROSA PINE, WE ALSO LOOKED AT WHITE SPRUCE, AND THE OTHER THING THAT WE WERE ASKED TO LOOK AT WAS TO DEVELOP A RECOMMENDATION TOP THE NATIONAL FOREST ON WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS TIME TO HAVE A FOREST PLAN REVISION.

THE FOREST PLAN IS THE PLANNING DOCUMENT WHICH GUIDES THE NATIONAL FOREST AND ITS MANAGEMENT DECISIONS FOR THE COMING YEARS AND AS MUCH AS A DECADE OR LONGER.

AND, SO, GIVEN THOSE TASKS, THERE WERE ACTUALLY A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT WE AGREED ON AS WE DEVELOPED OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.

THE FIRST ONE WAS WITH REGARD TO THE FOREST PLAN REVISION.

WE AGREED UNANIMOUSLY THAT IT WAS, INDEED, TIME FOR THE FOREST TO REVIEW THE FOREST PLAN AND MAKE CHANGES BASED ON CHANGES THAT HAVE OCCURRED IN THE FOREST OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS.

ANOTHER THING THAT WE AGREED ON WAS THE NEED FOR WHAT WE REFER TO AS NONCOMMERCIAL THINNING.

SMALL TREES HAVE NO MARKET VALUE.

AND, THEREFORE, THEY CAN'T BE SOLD.

THEY HAVE TO BE THINNED AT COST.

UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S THE CASE THERE'S ONLY A MARKET FOR THE LARGER TREES, POLL SIZE, SAW TIMBER SIZE.

BUT THERE'S NO MARKET FOR THE SMALL DIAMETER TREES.

IF WE COULD DEVELOP A MARKET, IT WOULD BE A LOT EASIER FOR US TO GET THOSE AREAS THINNED.

BUT AS IT IS, IT COSTS MONEY.

I THINK WE -- THE 2020 COST ON THE NATIONAL FOREST WAS ABOUT $300 PER ACRE AND THERE'S A BACKLOG OF OVER 200,000 ACRES OF THESE SMALL-DIAMETER TREES.

PONDEROSA PINE IS A VERY PROLIFIC SPECIES IN THE BLACK HILLS.

IT REGENERATES AS MANY AS 5 TO 10,000 SEEDLINGS ON AN ACRE.

AND THAT'S JUST TOO MANY.

IT NEEDS TO BE THINNED OUT.

AND SMALL-DIAMETER TREES NEED TO BE THINNED AT COST.

ANOTHER THING THAT WE ALL AGREED ON WITH THE NATIONAL FOREST ADVISORY BOARD WAS THAT THE FOREST PRODUCTS INDUSTRY IS CRITICAL TO MANAGEMENT OF THE NATIONAL FOREST.

NATURE TENDS BY FIRE, INSECTS AND WEATHER-RELATED EVENTS AND SOMETIMES THESE CAN BE CATASTROPHIC IN SIZE.

WHEREAS, IF WE CAN DO THINNING ON A COMMERCIAL BASIS, REMOVE SOME OF THE TREES, IT MAKES THE REMAINING TREES MORE RESILIENT TO DISTURBANCE AND THEY GROW FASTER AND GET BIGGER MORE QUICKLY.

>> BOB, I WANT TO BRING YOU INTO THE CONVERSATION NOW.

BOTH OF YOU BEFORE THE SHOW MENTIONED THAT THERE WERE A LOT OF AREAS WHERE YOU DID AGREE ON YOUR WORK IN THE TASK FORCE.

HEARING SOME OF THE POINTS THAT GREG JUST OUTLINED, BRING UP SOME OF YOURS, IF THERE'S ANY OTHER POINTS OF AGREEMENT OR PERHAPS PLACES WHERE YOU MIGHT DISAGREE ON THE CRUX OF THE ISSUE.

>> WELL, I CAN SAY THAT WE CERTAINLY AGREE ON THE THINNING ISSUE.

THAT 200,000 ACRES IS TAKING UP 200,000 ACRES OF THE SUITABLE FOREST.

THAT'S MORE THAN A QUARTER OF THAT AREA THAT IS REALLY JUST STAGNANT BECAUSE THE TREES ARE TOO CLOSE.

NATURAL REGENERATION IN THE BLACK HILLS CAN PRODUCE AS MANY AS 4,000 TREES PER ACRE.

AND THE FUNDING IS NOT THERE TO THIN IT.

THAT BACKLOG ACTUALLY GROWS EVERY YEAR INSTEAD OF DECREASING.

THE FOREST SERVICE GETS SOME FUNDING TO THIN THE TREES THROUGH LOGGING OPERATIONS, BUT WE HAVE TO DEVELOP SOME OTHER FORM OF FUNDING BECAUSE WE'RE LOSING, ACTUALLY, A QUARTER OF SUITABLE AREA TO GROW TREES.

I KNOW RIGHT NOW THE JASPER FIRE IS BEING REPLANTED AT A COST OF AROUND $1,000 AN ACRE.

AND THEY'RE PLANTING ABOUT 350 TREES PER ACRE, GETTING ABOUT 400 ACRES A YEAR.

IT WOULD TAKE 200 YEARS TO FULLY PLANT THAT 80,000 ACRES OF THE JASPER FIRE.

AND THOSE TREES MAY TAKE 100 YEARS TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE THEY'RE SAW LOGS AGAIN.

HOWEVER, THOSE PRECOMMERCIAL AREAS WHERE WE HAVE DENSE STANDS OF TREES THAT ARE REALLY STAGNANT, IF WE COULD SEND THOSE -- THIN THOSE, WE COULD EASILY HAVE 4 TO 500 TREES PER ACRE PRODUCING POSTS AND POLES IN A FEW YEARS AND THEN SAW LOGS NOT TOO MANY YEARS AFTER THAT.

BUT RIGHT NOW THEY ARE JUST STAGNANT.

ON MY OWN TREE FARM, MY GREAT GRANDFATHER GOT OUR PROPERTY IN THE LATE 1890s, AROUND THE SAME TIME THAT THEY FORMED THE BLACK HILLS FOREST RESERVE.

HE HAD A TIMBER SALE, AND THE SIMPLE PRESCRIPTION WAS CUT ALL THE BIG TREES.

WHICH THEY DID.

AND HE MADE ABOUT SIX TIMES WHAT HE PAID FOR THE PROPERTY.

IT WAS AN INVESTMENT.

HE WAS A BANKER FROM IOWA.

NOW THAT I HAVE IT, MY FATHER AND I STARTED TRYING TO TAKE CARE OF THE FOREST, BUT THINNING WASN'T DONE THERE UNTIL THE LATE '80s, REALLY, IN VERY MUCH VOLUME.

WE HAD TREES THAT ARE 100 YEARS OLD THAT ARE THREE INCHES IN DIAMETER.

AND THEY MAY GET TO SIX INCHES IN DIAMETER IN ANOTHER 100 YEARS.

THAT'S NOT THE WAY TO RUN A FOREST.

THE SIMPLEST THING THAT COULD BE DONE RIGHT NOW AND ACCORDING TO THE GTR, THE FASTEST WAY TO HAVE OUR FOREST RECOVER WOULD BE TO GET ON BOARD WITH FUNDING FOR PRECOMMERCIAL THINNING.

>> BOB, I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU ON THIS QUESTION AND THEN COME TO GREG.

BUT WE JUST HEARD CONGRESSMAN DUSTY JOHNSON SPEAK A LITTLE BIT TO SOME NATIONAL LEGISLATION, HE'S PLANNING TO INTRODUCE OR HAS INTRODUCED, THE F.I.R.E.

ACT RELATED TO 60 DAYS FOREST SERVICE GOES IN AND CLEARS OUT TIMBER, EXPEDITES THAT PROCESS.

DO YOU SEE THAT, BOB, AS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION OR IS IT MISSING THE KEY ISSUE HERE?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S PUTTING -- COULD BE PUTTING A BURDEN ON THE FOREST SERVICE, BUT I THINK THOSE THINGS ARE ALREADY HAPPENING.

THE JASPER FIRE WAS HEAVILY LOGGED RIGHT AFTER THE FIRE.

THE FOREST SERVICE REALLY HAS A GOOD PROGRAM ABOUT GETTING IN AFTER A TORNADO, A FOREST FIRE, ANYTHING, AND TRYING TO SALVAGE THE LOGS THAT ARE THERE.

THEY MAY NOT GET THEM ALL, AND THERE'S A CERTAIN TIME PERIOD THAT THEY HAVE TO HARVEST WHATEVER THEY CAN OR IT ISN'T ANY GOOD.

FOR LUMBER.

SO I KNOW CONGRESSMAN JOHNSON IS DOING HIS BEST TO TRY AND HELP THE FOREST, BUT I THINK THAT'S -- MAY BE SOMETHING THAT ISN'T NECESSARY RIGHT NOW, COMING UP WITH THE FUNDING FOR COMMERCIAL THINNING WOULD BE MUCH MORE IMPORTANT.

>> GREG JOSTEN, WHAT DO YOU SAY ON THAT ISSUE, HOW DO YOU SEE THE F.I.R.E.

ACT?

>> I THINK IT'S A GOOD MOVE.

ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THE NATIONAL FOREST IS ABLE TO RESPOND QUICKLY TO SOME OF THE DISASTERS THAT OCCURRED HERE IS, IN PART, BECAUSE SOME OF THOSE AREAS ARE ALREADY UNDER CONTRACT.

THE AREAS UNDER CONTRACT, IT'S EASY TO CHANGE THE SPECIFICATIONS OF THE CONTRACT FROM A REGULAR NORMAL HARVEST TO A SALVAGE SALE.

AND THAT CAN GREATLY EXPEDITE THE REMOVAL OF DOWNED AND DAMAGED TIMBER.

BUT IT'S A MUCH LOWER VALUE THAN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN IF IT WERE STANDING UP RIGHT ON THE STUMP.

BUT, NEVERTHELESS, IT CAN STILL BE HARVESTED VERY QUICKLY.

THE CHALLENGE COMES IN WHERE THERE IS NO CONTRACT, NO TIMBER SALE ALREADY, AND ESPECIALLY TREES WITHIN 200 FEET OF A ROAD HAVE A GREAT POTENTIAL FOR FAILING AND FALLING ACROSS THE ROAD, CREATING ACCESS PROBLEMS, DAMAGING RECREATIONALLISTS, HURTING RECREATIONALLISTS OR THAT SORT OF THING.

THEY'RE ACTUALLY HAZARD TREES.

SO IF THAT CAN BE EXPEDITED, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING.

>> GREG, AS THE FOREST SERVICE IS WORKING ON THAT NEW MANAGEMENT PLAN, THAT STARTED THIS CONVERSATION, I GUESS WHAT ARE KIND OF YOUR HOPES FOR THAT NEW MANAGEMENT PLAN AND MAYBE THE TIMELINE FOR WHEN WE SHOULD EXPECT TO MAYBE SEE THAT PLAN?

>> WELL, HOPEFULLY WE'LL SEE THAT PLAN WITHIN THE NEXT FOUR YEARS.

THAT'S WHAT THE NATIONAL FOREST ADVISORY BOARD WAS LOOKING AT WHEN WE CAME UP WITH OUR RECOMMENDATIONS, WAS JUST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS TIME FRAME.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HOPE THAT THEY LOOK AT IS WHAT A SUITABLE TIMBER BASE IS.

THAT'S AN AREA DESIGNATED BY THE NATIONAL FOREST THROUGH THE FOREST PLANNING PROCESS.

AND SOME OF THE CONSTRAINTS THAT ARE PLACED ON IT ARE BASED ON ACCESSIBILITY, ACCESSIBILITY OF THE TIMBER, ACCESSIBILITY OF THE LAND, AND THE FOREST SERVICE NOW HAS TOOLS AVAILABLE TO THEM THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE 20 YEARS AGO.

THERE ARE CAPABILITIES TO HARVEST ON STEEP SLOPES WITHOUT DAMAGING THE LAND, WITHOUT CAUSING EROSION PROBLEMS.

ACCESS TO ISOLATED TRACKS THAT ARE SURROUNDED BY PRIVATE LAND, GOOD NEIGHBOR AUTHORITY ALLOWS THE STATE TO HELP THE FOREST SERVICE WITH GAINING ACCESS TO SOME OF THOSE PROPERTIES.

AND WORKING WITH THE PRIVATE LANDOWNERS TO HELP THEM MANAGE THOSE LANDS.

SO IT'S MY HOPE THAT THE FOREST SERVICE WILL RE-EVALUATE SOME OF THE VARIOUS CONSIDERED NONSUITABLE BECAUSE THESE AREAS CAN SUPPORT TIMBER HARVEST.

TIMBER HARVESTING IS ALLOWED ON THESE AREAS, BUT OFTEN THEY ARE OVERLOOKED BECAUSE THE FOREST SERVICE IS FOCUSING ON THE AREAS WITHIN THEIR SUITABLE BASE.

THAT WOULD THEN CONTRIBUTE TO LONG-TERM SUSTAINED YIELD CALCULATIONS AND POSSIBLY GIVE MORE TIM -- MAKE MORE TIMBER AVAILABLE.

FIRE AND INSECTS DON'T LOOK AT STEEP SLOPES AND STAY AWAY FROM THEM.

THEY DON'T LOOK AT POLITICAL BOUNDARIES AND AVOID GOING ACROSS PROPERTY LINES.

WE NEED TO MANAGE ACROSS PROPERTY LINES, AND WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO MANAGE THE STEEP SLOPES SO THAT THEY CAN BE MORE RESILIENT TO FIRE AND INSECTS IN THE FUTURE AS WELL.

>> BOB BURNS, IN OUR CLOSING COUPLE MOMENTS LEFT TOGETHER, WE ARE WAITING ABOUT FOUR YEARS, PERHAPS, TO FIND OUT WHAT THIS NEW MANAGEMENT PLAN ACTUALLY ENTAILS.

WHAT ARE YOU WATCHING OUT FOR IN THE MEANTIME?

>> SOME OF THE SAME THINGS THAT GREG MENTIONED.

YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW THE FOREST PLAN HAS A 181 IS THE NUMBER OF TONS -- THOUSAND CUBIC TONS OF LUMBER.

THAT IS GOING TO END.

I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A SPECIFIC NUMBER.

SO I THINK THE FOREST WILL BE MORE FLEXIBLE THEN IN THE FUTURE AS FAR AS WHAT THE TIMBER HARVESTS ARE.

THE UNSUITABLE LANDS, WE LOOKED AT THAT QUITE A BIT IN OUR COMMITTEE, AND CERTAINLY WE SAW AREAS THAT COULD BE LOGGED, BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S A VOLUME IN THERE THAT COULD GET US BACK TO WHERE WE WERE IN THE LATE '90s.

YOU KNOW, BACK IN THE '60s, OUR TIMBER VOLUME WAS ABOUT WHAT IT IS RIGHT NOW.

AND IT GREW, IT DOUBLED BY THE MID '90s.

AND A LOT OF THAT DOUBLING WAS DUE TO THE THINNING OF THE FOREST DONE BY THE CCC BACK IN THE '30s, AFTER 30 YEARS OF GROWTH, THOSE THIN FORESTS WERE STARTING TO EXPLODE.

AND WE COULDN'T KEEP UP WITH IT, ALMOST, UNTIL THE MID '90s, LATE '90s, AND THEN THE FOREST FIRES AND THE BUGS CAME ALONG, AND KIND OF TOOK CARE OF THAT OVERSTOCKING.

SO TO SPEAK.

SO IT'S GOING TO BE A DIFFICULT DECISION.

NO ONE WANTS TO SEE THE TIMBER INDUSTRY DECLINE.

WE NEED THEM.

AND POSSIBLY PUTTING MORE OF THEM TO WORK AT PRECOMMERCIAL THINNING COULD BE PART OF THAT SOLUTION.

>> WELL, SOMETHING WE'LL CERTAINLY BE COVERING FOR A FEW YEARS YET TO COME.

MY GUESTS HAVE BEEN SOUTH DAKOTA STATE FORESTER GREG JOSTEN.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT.

I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

>> BOB BURNS, VICE CHAIRMAN OF THE SOUTH DAKOTA FAMILY FOREST ASSOCIATION AND PRESIDENT OF THE NORBECK SOCIETY.

BOB, THANKS TO YOU AS WELL.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

♪ >> AUGUSTANA UNIVERSITY'S NEW ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES MAJOR IS ONE OF THE FASTEST-GROWING MAJORS ON CAMPUS.

IT'S LED BY DR. DAVID O'HARA, WHO ALSO CHAIRS THE UNIVERSITY'S RELIGION, PHILOSOPHY, AND CLASSICS DEPARTMENT.

HE SAYS THE ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES PROGRAM IS ABOUT BALANCE, PRACTICAL PROBLEM SOLVING, AND KEEPING AN EYE TO THE FUTURE.

BEFORE THE NEW MAJOR LAUNCHED LAST YEAR, AUGUSTANA UNIVERSITY WAS HOME TO A SUCCESSFUL SUSTAINABILITY PROGRAM.

DAVID O'HARA DESCRIBES THE PROGRAM'S MISSION.

>> WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO THE THINGS WE CAN TO BECOME BETTER ANCESTORS.

AND THAT CAN COVER A WHOLE RANGE OF THINGS.

>> O'HARA SAYS THAT RANGE INCLUDES THE USUAL IDEAS ABOUT WASTE MANAGEMENT AND LAND PRESERVATION BUT ALSO EXPANDS TO CAMPUS AND ACADEMIC PROGRAMS.

>> SO WE DEVISED A NEW ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES MAJOR, FOR INSTANCE.

AND WE TRIED TO DO IT SUSTAINABLY!

THAT IS TO SAY, WE DIDN'T HIRE A WHOLE BUNCH OF NEW PEOPLE, NEW ADMINISTRATORS, PAY FOR LOTS OF NEW CLASSES.

WE TOOK THE CLASSES THAT ARE ALREADY THERE AND GAVE THEM SLIGHT CHANGES SO THAT WE CAN BE WORKING TOWARDS THAT GOAL OF WORKING TOWARD MUTUAL FLOURISHING WITH ALL OF OUR NEIGHBORS AND BECOMING GOOD ANCESTORS.

>> O'HARA TEACHES CLASSES LIKE OCEAN ETHICS AND ENVIRONMENTAL PHILOSOPHY.

IT MIGHT SOUND IMPRACTICAL, BUT THESE CLASSES TEACH STUDENTS TO RECOGNIZE THE MANY CONNECTIONS BETWEEN EVERYDAY LIFE AND THE ENVIRONMENT.

>> ONE WAY OF THINKING ABOUT SUSTAINABILITY IS WHAT WE CALL THE TRIPLE BOTTOM LINE.

THE TRIPLE BOTTOM LINE, THERE'S A COUPLE WAYS OF REPRESENTING IT, BUT I'LL TALK ABOUT THE THREE Ps, PEOPLE, PLANET AND PROFIT.

>> SUSTAINABILITY MEANS BALANCING ALL THREE.

>> OR IF WE SAY WE ONLY WANT PEOPLE TO FLOURISH, THAT MIGHT COME AT THE COST OF SPECIES OR ECOSYSTEMS!

AND AGAIN, IF WE ONLY CARE ABOUT PROFIT, IF WE ONLY CARE ABOUT THE SHAREHOLDERS AND NOT ALL THE STAKEHOLDERS IN ANY GIVEN ENTERPRISE, THEY'LL BE SUFFERING ELSEWHERE.

THE WORK OF SUSTAINABILITY IS COMPLEX WORK.

IT MEANS CONSTANTLY GATHERING MORE DATA, BALANCING THAT DATA, AND MAKING SURE EVERYONE IN THE WHOLE ECOSYSTEM FLOURISHES.

THIS TURNS OUT TO BE SOMETHING STUDENTS REALLY LIKE.

>> O'HARA'S CLASSES AND THE ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES MAJOR PUSH STUDENTS TO APPLY WHAT THEY LEARN WITH REAL-WORLD PROJECTS.

ONE STUDENT-LED PROJECT WAS AN OUTDOOR CLASSROOM MADE FROM STONE FOUND THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

>> IT'S AN OUTDOOR CLASSROOM THAT WILL PROBABLY OUTLAST EVERY OTHER CLASSROOM ON CAMPUS.

THE COST PER SQUARE FOOT WAS A FRACTION OF THE COST PER SQUARE FOOT OF AN ORDINARY CLASSROOM.

IT'S DESIGNED TO BE INCLUSIVE.

IT TELLS THE STORY OF HOW WE'VE DESIGNED SPACES BY IMITATING ANCIENT GREEK THEATERS, AND IT'S ALSO A PICTURE IN AND OF ITSELF OF THE GEOLOGY OF SOUTH DAKOTA.

>> SINCE 2019, O'HARA AND HIS STUDENTS HAVE CONSULTED TWO SIOUX FALLS SCHOOLS ON CONSTRUCTING THEIR OWN OUTDOOR CLASSROOMS.

BUT THAT'S NOT THE ONLY LOCAL IMPACT.

LAST SPRING, ONE OF O'HARA'S STUDENTS HAD THE IDEA TO PLANT AN APPLE ORCHARD ON CAMPUS.

>> IT WASN'T FOR ACADEMIC CREDIT.

LAURA DID THIS BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO MAKE THE PLACE MORE BEAUTIFUL, BUT SHE TIED IT TOGETHER WITH AN ACADEMIC PROGRAM.

SO THAT STUDENTS CAN NOW FOR YEARS TO COME STUDY AGRICULTURE AND ORCHARDS RIGHT HERE ON CAMPUS.

>> STILL ANOTHER STUDENT IS CONVERTING UNUSED GREEN SPACE ON CAMPUS INTO A GARDEN TO PRESERVE PRAIRIE GRASSES.

>> SO YOU MIGHT THINK ENVIRONMENTAL PHILOSOPHY?

VERY IMPRACTICAL.

AND YET HERE, WE HAVE STUDENTS WHO ARE LEARNING THIS STUFF AND THEN SAYING LET'S APPLY IT RIGHT NOW AND START TO MAKE A LOCAL, REGIONAL AND, I HOPE, EVEN GLOBAL DIFFERENCE.

>> O'HARA SAYS HE'S EXCITED TO EXPAND THE ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES MAJOR TO INCLUDE EVEN MORE PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS OF PHILOSOPHY.

MOST OF ALL, HE HOPES STUDENTS CONTINUE TO FIND INNOVATIVE WAYS TO PRESERVE VALUABLE LOCAL RESOURCES.

>> I LOVE BEING IN THE POSITION OF TEACHING STUDENTS TOOLS THAT THEY CAN USE TO MAKE THIS THE SORT OF PLACE WHERE THEIR DESCENDANTS WILL SAY, 'I'M SO GLAD THAT I INHERITED THIS PLACE, AND THAT THE PEOPLE WHO CAME BEFORE ME MADE IT INTO THE KIND OF PLACE THAT IT IS.'

THIS PLACE IS RICH IN RESOURCES.

IT'S RICH IN ANIMAL AND PLANT LIFE, AND AGAIN, TO THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW IT, IT LOOKS LIKE AN EMPTY PRAIRIE.

I LOOK AT THIS PLACE AND I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THE WEALTHIEST PLACES IN THE WORLD.

AND I DON'T MEAN IN TERMS OF MONEY.

I MEAN IN TERMS OF BIODIVERSITY, IN TERMS OF OPPORTUNITY, AND IN TERMS OF ESPECIALLY THE OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO BECOME BETTER ANCESTORS.

>> IT'S A PASSION THAT'S BEING CARRIED BY THE NEXT GENERATION OF ENVIRONMENTALISTS.

>> SOME PEOPLE THINK YOU NEED TO CHOOSE BETWEEN PLANET AND PROFIT.

HUNTER LOVINS IS NOT ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE.

LOVINS IS PRESIDENT AND CO-FOUNDER OF NATURAL CAPITALISM SOLUTIONS.

SHE'S A NATIONALLY KNOWN AUTHOR AND ADVOCATE FOR SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT.

LOVINS SPOKE WITH SDPB'S "IN THE MOMENT" HOST LORI WALSH TO SHARE SOME PRACTICAL STEPS TO SUPPORT BOTH THE PLANET AND THE LOCAL ECONOMY.

>> IN YOUR EXPERIENCE OF DEALING WITH EVERYONE FROM CLIMATE CHANGE DENIERS TO PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO TAKE THE NEXT STEP, WHAT MAKES PEOPLE CHANGE THEIR MIND?

WHAT DOES -- WHEN YOU SPEAK TO PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD AND YOU FIND PEOPLE WHO ARE HESITANT OR UNSURE, IS IT THE DATA, IS IT THE POWER OF STORY, IS IT THEIR CONNECTION TO LAND IN A WAY THAT THEY HAVEN'T THOUGHT OF IT YET?

WHAT DO YOU SEE THAT HELPS PEOPLE ACTUALLY CHANGE BEHAVIOR AND CHANGE THEIR MIND?

>> ONE OF THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAYS TO CHANGE THE MIND OF A CORPORATE EXECUTIVE WILL BE HIS 16-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER.

YOUNG PEOPLE WHO SAY, DAD, YOUR COMPANY IS DIRTY.

AND THE EXECUTIVE, UNFORTUNATELY, MOST OF THEM ARE MEN, SAY, WOW, I NEVER REALLY THOUGHT OF IT THAT WAY.

DAD, WHAT KIND OF A WORLD ARE YOU LEAVING TO YOUR GRANDCHILDREN?

NOW, WHEN PEOPLE SAY TO ME, I DON'T BELIEVE IN CLIMATE CHANGE, I SAY, OKAY, FINE.

LET'S ASSUME IT'S A HOKES.

HOAX.

DON'T GO TO THE CASINO ON THE ODDS OF THAT BEING TRUE.

BUT IF ALL YOU ARE IS A PROFIT MAXIMIZING CAPITALIST, YOU'LL DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO IF YOU WERE SCARED TO DEATH OF CLIMATE CHANGE, I CAN SHOW YOU HOW TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM AT A PROFIT.

IF IT'S A HOAX, WE'LL MAKE A LOT OF MONEY.

IF IT'S A PROBLEM, WE'LL MAKE A LOT OF MONEY.

EITHER WAY, WE'RE ON OUR WAY TO SOLVING THE PROBLEM.

SO THE SCIENCE IN THAT SENSE IS BAR TALK.

WE CAN ARGUE ABOUT IT OVER A BEER LATER ON, BUT LET'S GET ON WITH SOLVING THE PROBLEM BECAUSE IT WILL GIVE US A MORE PLEASANT COMMUNITY TO LIVE IN AND A STRONGER ECONOMY.

SO, IF WE CAN AGREE ON WHAT IT IS THAT WE WANT, SOLVING THE PROBLEM IS, IN GENERAL, PRETTY EASY.

EVERYWHERE ON EARTH NOW IT IS CHEAPER TO USE RENEWABLE ENERGY THAN TO USES FOR I WILL .

AND THIS IS WHY UTILITY AFTER UTILITY AFTER UTILITY IS SAYING, WELL, WE'RE GOING TO CLOSE THIS COAL PLANT AND THEY MAY BLAME THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS, BUT THE REAL REASON THEY'RE DOING IT IS JUST RUNNING A COAL PLANT WILL COST YOU 4 TO 6 CENTS A KILOWATT HOUR.

NEW SOLAR COMES ON AT A BIT MORE THAN 2 CENTS.

WIND COMES ON A BIT BELOW 2 CENTS.

SOLAR PLUS WIND PLUS STORAGE, 3 CENTS A KILOWATT HOUR.

THOSE NUMBERS COME FROM HERE IN COLORADO WHERE XCEL ENERGY, WHICH WAS A COAL-LOVING UTILITY, SAID, WE NEED 1100 MEGAWATTS, YOU ALL BID.

AND THEY BELIEVE NATURAL GAS WOULD WIN.

GAS CAME IN AT 4 CENTS.

NOT COUNTING THE RUNNING COSTS, WHICH WOULD BE SORT OF 4 CENTS A KILOWATT HOUR EVERAFTER.

XCEL SAID, NO, SOLAR TARIFFS, BID IT AGAIN.

EVERYBODY BID IT AGAIN, 58,000 MEGAWATTS BID, WIND, STORAGE, SOLAR, 3 CENTS A KILOWATT HOUR.

IN A SENSE, IT'S OVER WHEN THE KENTUCKY COAL MUSEUM PUT SOLAR ON ITS ROOF BECAUSE IT'S CHEAPER THAN HOOKING TO THE COAL-FIRED GRID AT ITS DOORSTEP, YOU KNOW IT'S OVER.

>> LEAVE US WITH SOME ADVICE FOR THE EVERYDAY SOUTH DAKOTAN WHO IS LARGELY ENGAGING IN THE WORLD AS A CONSUMER, AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT THE MARKETERS WILL THINK OF US AS AND HOW THEY WILL LABEL US, SO WE'RE PART OF THE ECONOMY BECAUSE WE CREATE WORK LIKE WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW, BUT WE'RE ALSO PART OF AN ECONOMY AS WE FIGURE OUT WHAT'S FOR DINNER.

WHAT ADVICE DO YOU HAVE FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DO MORE, UNDERSTAND MORE, AND BE PART OF THE SOLUTION INSTEAD OF THE PROBLEM?

>> BEEF, IT'S WHAT'S FOR DINNER.

BUT HOW WAS THAT BEEF GROUND?

GROWN?

DO YOU KNOW THE RANCHER WHO GREW THAT STEER?

IF YOU PRODUCE YOUR FOOD LOCALLY, IT'S GOING TO BE HEALTHIER, IT'S GOING TO BE TASTIER.

IF YOUR LOCAL RANCHERS ARE DOING GRASS-FED BEEF, THEY'RE TAKING CARBON OUT OF THE AIR AND PUTTING IT INTO THE SOIL.

SO THE MORE GRASS BEEF, GRASS CHICKEN, PASTEUR-RAISED CHICKEN, PASTEUR-RAISED PIGS YOU GROW, YOU'RE SOLVING THE CLIMATE CRISIS.

PASTURE.

WHERE DO THE VEGETABLES THAT YOU EAT COME FROM?

ARE THEY COMMODITY GROWN IN CALIFORNIA AND TRUCKED OVER THE ROCKY MOUNTAINS IN THE MIDST OF A SNOWSTORM SO THAT IF YOU HAVE A WEATHER DISRUPTION OR A COVID PANDEMIC YOUR GROCERY SHELVES ARE EMPTY OR ARE THEY COMING FROM LOCAL GREENHOUSES, LOCAL SMALL HOLDER FARMERS?

BECAUSE WHEN YOU BUY FROM A LOCAL FARMER, SHE'S GOING TO SPEND THAT DOLLAR AT THE LOCAL HAIRDRESSER WHO'S GOING TO SPEND THAT DOLLAR BUYING CRAFTS FROM DOWN THE STREET.

THE MORE A DOLLAR TURNS OVER IN YOUR COMMUNITY, THE STRONGER YOUR ECONOMY IS.

SO WHAT CAN YOU DO?

THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE BUYING AND WHERE DID IT COME FROM.

AND BUY LOCAL WHENEVER YOU CAN.

YOU'LL FIND OUT IT TASTES BETTER AND YOU'LL BE SUPPORTING YOUR LOCAL ECONOMY AND SAVING THE ENVIRONMENT AT THE SAME TIME.

>> YOU CAN FIND THE REST OF THAT INTERVIEW ONLINE BY SEARCHING HUNTER LOVINS AT LISTEN.SDPB.ORG.

BUYING LOCALLY SOURCED PRODUCE ISN'T ALWAYS SO EASY, ESPECIALLY IN RURAL AREAS WITH FEW GROCERY STORES LIKE THE ROSEBUD RESERVATION.

BUT OUR NEXT "GOOD NEIGHBOR" IS WORKING TO CHANGE THAT.

LET'S MEET MICHELLE HAUKAAS.

♪ [ SPEAKING NATIVE LANGUAGE ] >> GOOD AFTERNOON, RELATIVES, MY NAME'S MICHELLE HAUKAAS AND I'M THE GARDEN AND MARKET MANAGER FOR THE FOOD SOVEREIGN INDIAN INITIATIVE.

I GOT INVOLVED, I SEEN AMERICORPS AD FOR A SUMMER INTERNSHIP IN THE GARDEN IN THE THREE SISTERS FARM.

SO I APPLIED AND THAT WAS MY FIRST EXPERIENCE THAT SUMMER WITH THE GARDEN.

I GUESS I THINK I WAS JUST TRYING TO GET OUT OF MY COMFORT ZONE AND, PLUS, I'VE BEEN GARDENING AT HOME FOR LIKE TEN YEARS BY THEN AND I WANTED TO COME BACK AND JUST HELP THE TRIBE AND, YOU KNOW, SOME CAPACITY.

SO I JUST CHOSE A GARDEN AND IT JUST TOOK OFF FROM THERE.

>> I WONDER IF YOU CAN EXPAND A LITTLE BIT ON THE FACT THAT YOU ARE KIND OF IN A BIT OF A FOOD DESERT AND THIS IDEA OF HAVING TO TRAVEL SO FAR FOR SOME FRESH VEGGIES, TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE NEED THAT THIS GARDEN FILLS.

>> SO, YEAH, SO OUR RESERVATION IS LIKE REALLY SPREAD OUT, AND WE ONLY HAVE, LIKE, REALLY, TWO OR THREE LARGER GROCERY STORES OUT OF -- FOR LIKE 16 COMMUNITIES AND THEY'RE MORE CENTERED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE RES.

THERE ARE SMALLER, LITTLE STORES IN THESE LITTLE COMMUNITIES, TOO, BUT NOT VERY MANY.

SO THEY REALLY DO HAVE TO, LIKE, TRAVEL AND JUST BUY IN BULK ONCE THEY DO GET TO THE STORE AND, SO, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO RELAX THAT A LITTLE BIT BY GETTING OUT THERE AND OFFERING THESE PROMOTIONS AND JUST HITTING THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES AND, YOU KNOW, HELPING OUR PEOPLE OUT.

>> TELL FOLKS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THE WAYS THAT YOU AND YOUR TEAM ARE WORKING TO GET FRESH VEGGIES TO FOLKS.

>> WELL, WE HOST A FARMERS MARKET AND IT'S THE THIRD LARGEST IN SOUTH DAKOTA.

IT'S A LOT OF FUN.

WE HAVE A LOT OF FUN WITH ALL THE VENDORS AND ALL THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS THAT COME OUT.

WE WERE OPEN LAST SUMMER AND IT WAS REALLY SUCCESSFUL, EVEN THROUGH COVID AND STUFF.

IT WAS KIND OF SCARY, BUT WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY, LIKE, TRANSMISSION THROUGH OUR MARKET.

AND THAT WAS ONE OF OUR GOALS.

ALSO WE RUN A MOBILE MARKET, IT RUNS TO LIKE 16 DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.

WE'LL BE STARTING THAT PROBABLY TOWARDS THE END OF MAY.

WE TRY TO HIT ALL THE COMMUNITIES BECAUSE THERE'S SUCH FOOD INSECURITY OUT THERE, YOU KNOW.

THEY HAVE TO TRAVEL AT LEAST 30 MILES TO THE NEAREST GROCERY STORE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE A HARD TIME WITH THAT.

SO WE'RE TRYING TO TAKE OUR FOOD TO THEM.

>> WHAT DO YOU LOVE ABOUT BEING IN THE GARDEN?

AND WORKING IN NATURE?

>> THAT CONNECTION, THE RECONNECTION, I GUESS, WITH THE LAND AND JUST THE SUNSHINE, THE WAY THE DIRT SMELLS, JUST EATING VEGETABLES THAT YOU GREW, COOKING THEM, FEEDING YOUR FAMILY.

IT'S A REAL CONNECTION TO YOUR OWN FOOD.

I REALLY LIKE GARDENING.

IT'S REALLY RELAXING AND IT'S FULFILLING.

>> WHAT ARE SOME OTHER WAYS THAT YOU'RE KIND OF INVOLVED IN YOUR COMMUNITY OR OTHER WAYS YOU SPEND YOUR TIME WHEN YOU'RE NOT DOING THE WORK?

>> I JUST RECEIVED MY BACHELOR'S DEGREE IN BUSINESS MANAGEMENT AND I HAVE A MINOR IN, LIKE, LEGAL STUDIES, SO A LOT OF FEDERAL INDIAN LAW AND TRIBAL LAW.

IT'S REALLY INTERESTING.

THAT'S REALLY ONE OF MY PASSIONS IS JUST TREATY LAW AND WATER RIGHTS, STUFF LIKE THAT.

SO I'M REALLY INTERESTED IN THAT.

I THINK I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE WENT THAT WAY IF I DIDN'T FIND THE GARDEN.

SO I'M JUST TRYING TO TAKE IT EASY AND GEAR UP FOR THIS SPRING AND THIS SUMMER AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF W.I.C.

INTERNS UP IN THE GARDEN, TEACHING THEM DIFFERENT THINGS, TEACHING THEM HOW TO GARDEN, HOW TO HARVEST FOOD, BUFFALO HARVESTING, IT'S A LOT OF STUFF LIKE THAT.

SO IT INVOLVES A LOT AND SATURDAYS AND SUNDAYS I HAVE TO BE UP THERE AND MAKE SURE THE PLANTS AND THE POULTRY AND EVERYTHING GET FED, TOO, WE TAKE TURNS DOING THAT.

I MEAN, REALLY JUST LOVE MY JOB.

I'M JUST THERE ALL THE TIME.

I DON'T MIND, I LIKE IT.

IT'S PART OF MY LIFE, I GUESS.

>> TO YOU, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE A GOOD NEIGHBOR?

>> I GUESS, SO, IN OUR CULTURE, WE TALK ABOUT BEING A GOOD RELATIVE.

AND TO BE LIKE A GOOD RELATIVE, JUST TO BE LIKE FUNCTIONAL IN LIFE AND JUST, YOU KNOW, TRY TO GET YOUR EDUCATION, TRY TO KEEP YOURSELF HEALTHY, TRY TO EAT RIGHT AND HELP YOUR COMMUNITY AND JUST BEING THAT GOOD RELATIVE AND JUST BEING A GOOD ROLE MODEL, I DON'T KNOW, IT'S KIND OF DISMAYING WHEN YOU LIVE ON THE RES AND I THINK JUST SEEING WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING, JUST BRINGS A LOT OF HOPE TO OUR YOUTH AND STUFF AND GIVES THEM THAT POSITIVE ROLE MODEL.

>> THAT'S ALL WE HAVE TIME FOR TONIGHT.

YOU CAN FIND MORE COVERAGE ABOUT THE BLACK HILLS NATIONAL FOREST AND OTHER STORIES ONLINE -- SDPB.ORG/NEWS.

OUR NEXT SHOW IS COMING UP ON MAY 13TH, WHEN WE'LL DISCUSS OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GUNS IN SOUTH DAKOTA, AND WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.

IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION YOU WANT ANSWERED ON "SOUTH DAKOTA FOCUS," SEND US AN EMAIL OR FIND ME ON TWITTER @JACKIEHENDRYSD.

UNTIL NEXT TIME, I'M JACKIE HENDRY.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

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