AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

On the "News Hour" tonight: A slowdown in hiring## sends a warning signal about# the health of the U.S. economy.

AMNA NAWAZ: Four years after the U.S. withdrew# from Afghanistan, thousands of Afghan immigrants## in America face deportation, despite their# fears that they will be targeted by the Taliban.

"ABDUL," Former English Teacher: There# is no justice.

There is no court.

They## will just order their soldiers to check# their aim and just shoot you in your head.

GEOFF BENNETT: And the rise# of artificial intelligence and## the infrastructure needed to support it# causes a sharp rise in electricity bills.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "News Hour."

Fresh government data show# the labor market hit a wall## this summer.

The August jobs report# came in far weaker than expected,## signaling a slowdown that could challenge# the president's economic message.

AMNA NAWAZ: Employers added just 2,2000# new jobs last month.

The only sector that## added significant numbers was health care.

Several# other sectors, including manufacturing, lost jobs.

Revisions also showed that the economy lost 13,000# jobs in June.

That is the first net loss since## December of 2020, during the pandemic.

President# Trump was asked about those weaker numbers.

He## said high interest rates were partly to blame and# predicted unprecedented job growth to come next## year.

He then cast some doubt on the latest data# and said there may be more adjustments to come.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:# The other thing is, so many different -- so many## different elements aren't included yet.

And one of# the things we have learned -- and we learned that## the hard way watching over the last few months --# are the corrections that people have been making.

They will say you're losing# jobs, and then they will say,## by the way, we have a correction a month later.

AMNA NAWAZ: This was the first monthly jobs report# since the president fired the commissioner of the## Bureau of Labor Statistics just hours after# a weak jobs report last month.

Experts said## today they have seen no problems with the agency's# work yet or the acting commissioner overseeing it.

I spoke about all of this earlier# today with Austan Goolsbee,## the president and CEO of the# Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago.

Austan Goolsbee, welcome back to the# "News Hour."

Thanks for joining us.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, President, Federal Reserve# Bank of Chicago: Hi.

Thank you for having me.

AMNA NAWAZ: So let's just start with your# reaction to those jobs numbers, 22,000 new## jobs added in August.

What do those numbers say# to you about the labor market and the economy?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: Well, they're not# positive numbers.

They're coming## in weaker than was expected and# weaker than what folks would like.

The only thing I will raise and remind folks is,## A, be a little careful overindexing on one# month, and, B, for a variety of reasons,## the monthly payroll jobs number has gotten a# little noisier, let's call it, as an indicator## of where we are in the business cycle.

There are# also some other indicators you want to look at,## like the unemployment rate, the hiring# rate, what's happening with layoffs.

And not all of the labor market# indicators are showing the kind## of weakness that this monthly number# is showing.

So it's a little mixed.

AMNA NAWAZ: And what about that# downward revision looking back to June,## a net loss of 13,000?

What's behind that?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: Well, one thing could be behind# it is, we could be seeing a deterioration of the## labor market.

Another thing that could be behind# it that's probably pulling the numbers down is## we have got -- we have had a pretty significant# reduction in net immigration to the United States.

And immigration is usually a pretty# significant contributor to the labor force,## or at least labor force growth.

So we have# been highlighting for months now that this## could happen, that if we started really# squeezing labor force participation or## cracking down on immigration, that you might# start seeing monthly jobs numbers shrinking.

This is probably a little smaller than what# we expected from that.

We tend to think of## it as economists around a break-even.

What# would be the break-even that you would say## the economy's neither overheating or undercooling?# The break-even, if I had to guess, 75,000, 85,000.

So that we're in below that is# making folks a little bit concerned.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, Chair Powell referenced# some of the immigration restrictions## specifically last month in his remarks,# their impact on the labor market.

And we## know those restrictions are not changing# under this administration any time soon.

Just yesterday, there was a raid on# a Hyundai plant in Georgia in which## more than 400 people were arrested.

Are# those kinds of actions having an impact## on the labor market?

And is this the# beginning of a longer downward slide?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: The first thing to note# is what matters is not one specific raid## or anything like that.

It's the total net# immigration into or out of the country.## And we saw last year, for example, big jobs# numbers, 185,000 a month on average for the year.

It ended up being a sign that, looking back,# ah, there was a lot more population growth## than we knew as it was happening.

That's# what we're trying -- everyone is trying## to tease out from the data like the ones that# are coming out today, is, we don't observe,## we don't know what's -- how much the# immigration is pulling down the number.

I'm more comfortable looking at multiple job# market indicators.

The hiring rate is kind of low,## but the layoffs have not really commenced.

If you# thought this was the beginning of a recession,## you would think you would# be seeing a big uptick in## layoffs.

And the job openings/vacancy# rate is actually still quite good.

It's## even better than it was 2019 before the# pandemic, which was a strong labor market.

So, we're just going to have to see# as the months come through here,## is this a sign that the labor market is# deteriorating or is this a sign that some## things are happening behind the scenes that# make the number a little noisier to interpret?

AMNA NAWAZ: While I have you, I have got to# ask quickly about the fact that this is the## first jobs report that we have seen since# President Trump fired the BLS commissioner.

There were a lot of questions about whether# or not the numbers could be trusted,## if there was political pressure.

Do you# have any reason not to trust these numbers?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I have no reason not to# -- there were a lot of no's in there.

I## have no reason not to trust these numbers.# The Bureau of Labor Statistics is absolutely## the best source of data that exists about# the labor market and the U.S. economy.

It's not perfect, and there's definitely noise# in it, and the noise has gotten harder over time## because people don't answer surveys and things# like that.

So I would encourage everybody to look## at as many pieces of information as you can.

As# I say, if you're one of the data dogs, one of the## key rules of the data dog is sniff everything# that hits the floor because it might be food.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, look ahead for us if# you can now.

Do these latest numbers## strengthen the case for interest rate cuts ahead?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: As you know, the# law tells the -- gives the Fed a## job when setting monetary policy to# pursue what we call the dual mandate,## to maximize employment and stabilize prices.# You have got to pay attention to inflation.

And we have had some months of really benign# readings and that almost said, no need to pay## attention here.

But in the latest data, we saw# a couple of warning signs, disturbing signs,## like services inflation really kicking back up# again.

That's probably not coming from tariffs.

So we're on the lookout, was that just a blip or# do we got to be thinking about both sides of the## Fed's mandate at the same time?

And that's# always the more uncomfortable circumstance.

AMNA NAWAZ: I'm sure you have been aware of the# president's very public campaign to apply pressure## to the Fed chair, Jerome Powell, as well, and also# his attempts to fire Lisa Cook from the Fed board.

I also want to ask you about the fact that# the president's been very clear about the## fact that he would like to exert more control# over the Fed.

He's used explicit language## saying that we will have a majority soon if# he's able to replace Lisa Cook on that board.

What do you make of that?

Are you# worried about political interference## on the Fed?

Are you worried about# it maintaining its independence?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: We have through# the Federal Reserve Act a process## that was designed to keep as much as humanly# possible Fed monetary policy decisions away## from -- that there will not be political# interference in determinations like that.

That's not just at the Fed.

All the rich# countries of the world have independent## central banks because economists are basically# unanimous that it's extremely important that## we preserve Central Bank independence# from that kind of political interference.

So I think that's very strong and a very# strong endorsement of independence.

Makes## me uncomfortable anybody who's making the# argument that the monetary policy decisions## should not be based on the economic conditions# and the economic outlook, but should instead## be based on the political viewpoint of one# party or another.

I think it's a mistake.

That's a recipe for inflation# coming back.

If you just look## around the world at places where# they don't have that independence,## inflation is much higher, growth is# slower, the job market does worse.

AMNA NAWAZ: Austan Goolsbee, president# of the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago,## always good to speak with you.# Thank you again for making the time.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: Lovely to see you again.

GEOFF BENNETT: We start today's other# headlines with a notable name change## from the nation's commander in chief.# This afternoon, President Trump ordered## that the Defense Department change back# to its old title, the Department of War.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:# I think that's a big one, I will be honest.

GEOFF BENNETT: The move is largely symbolic.

Only# Congress can officially change the department's## name, but today's order will authorize# the Pentagon and Defense Secretary Pete## Hegseth to use secondary titles, like# calling himself the secretary of war.

Both Hegseth and Trump acknowledged# the symbolism of today's action.

DONALD TRUMP: They went a route that I# think was probably politically correct,## but not correct for our nation.

So I think# the Department of War sends a signal.

GEOFF BENNETT: Within minutes of today's# announcement, staff at the Pentagon started## taking down signs to have them changed.

The# department was called the Department of War## for 150 years until shortly after World# War II, when it was changed to Defense.

Also today, President Trump signed an order# that would allow the U.S. to punish countries## that wrongfully imprison U.S. nationals.# It would create a new designation for state## sponsors of wrongful detention, similar to the# designation of state sponsors of terrorism.

More now on the immigration raid in Georgia.# Homeland Security officials say they have carried## out the largest single-site enforcement operation# in DHS history; 475 people were arrested at the## manufacturing plant where Hyundai makes electric# vehicles, most of them South Korean nationals.

At a news conference, officials# described a monthslong investigation## into allegations of -- quote --# "unlawful employment practices."

STEVEN SCHRANK, Homeland Security# Investigations: This operation## underscores our commitment to protecting# jobs for Georgians and Americans,## ensuring a level playing field for# businesses that comply with the law,## safeguarding the integrity of our economy# and protecting workers from exploitation.

GEOFF BENNETT: Following the raid, South# Korea's government expressed concern and## regret over what it called possible# violations of its citizens' rights.

Hyundai, South Korea's biggest automaker,# invested billions in the Savannah facility,## which specializes in electric vehicle# battery production.

Notable Republicans## like Georgia's Governor Brian# Kemp have touted the project as## the largest economic development# project in the state's history.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said today# that any foreign troops deployed to Ukraine## while the war is ongoing would be# considered -- quote -- "legitimate## targets."

His comments come a day after# more than two dozen countries said they## would provide a reassurance force for# Ukraine once a cease-fire is reached.

Speaking to reporters alongside the# European Council president today,## Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that# the force would number -- quote -- "in## the thousands."

While at an economic# forum, Putin called Ukraine's bid to## be an E.U.

member a legitimate choice,# but drew the line at its joining NATO.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, Russian# President (through translator):## They continue to cling to the prospect of# Ukraine joining NATO.

This is the thing that## is entirely unacceptable to us.

Even though# every nation has the right to choose how to## ensure its own security, such matters cannot be# resolved without regard for Russia's security.

GEOFF BENNETT: In the meantime, fierce# fighting continues from both sides.## Ukraine's air force says Russia sent more# than 150 drones and seven missiles toward## Ukraine overnight.

Russian officials say# they destroyed 92 drones sent from Kyiv.

In Gaza, health officials say at least 27# people were killed in the latest wave of## Israeli attacks on Gaza City.

One airstrike# brought this 14-story building to the ground.## Israel has accused Hamas of using such# high-rises for surveillance.

It's part## of a controversial military buildup in Gaza# City, which Israel has declared a combat zone.

Israel insists it is targeting Hamas# combatants and takes steps to mitigate## civilian harm like evacuation warnings.# But many Gazans say they have nowhere to## go and instead shelter in tents, as# the hunger crisis there grows worse.

Back here at home, the artificial intelligence# company Anthropic has agreed to pay $1.5 billion## to settle a class action lawsuit# filed by book authors.

If approved,## it would be the largest in the history# of American copyright cases.

A trio of## authors sued the company last year over the# use of their books to train an A.I.

chatbot.

In June, a judge ruled that,# while the training wasn't illegal,## Anthropic did download millions of# books from pirated sources.

Today,## the company agreed to pay close to $3,000 for# each of about 500,000 books covered in the suit.

And author George Saunders has been named# this year's winner of the National Book## Award for Distinguished Contributions# to American Letters.

It's a lifetime## achievement award given to past luminaries like# Toni Morrison and Judy Blume.

Saunders is perhaps## best known for his first novel, "Lincoln in# the Bardo," which won the Man Booker Prize.

He's also the author of popular short story# collections, including "Tenth of December"## and "CivilWarLand in Bad Decline."

Saunders'# next book, "Vigil," is due out early next year.

On Wall Street, stocks ended lower after# that downbeat jobs report.

The Dow Jones## industrial average lost 220 points on the# day.

The Nasdaq slipped just seven points,## so nearly flat.

The S&P 500 also ended lower.

And a passing of note.

Joseph McNeil, a# key figure in the civil rights movement,## has died.

McNeil was one of four college# students who refused to leave their## seats at a segregated North Carolina lunch# counter back in 1960.

The Greensboro Sit-In,## as it became known, expanded to more than# 50 U.S. cities in nine states and became## a catalyst for student-led action# during the civil rights movement.

The store itself was desegregated# within six months.

Years later,## McNeil reflected on those turbulent times.

JOSEPH MCNEIL, Civil Rights Leader: It is very,## very difficult individually to step up# when.. put yourself and all you value on the line.# Students did that.

We risked our education,## but that courage, the ability to be brave, and# that's always going to be there even today.

GEOFF BENNETT: McNeil went on to become a two-star# major general in the Air Force Reserves and worked## as an investment banker.

A cause of death# is unknown.

Joseph McNeil was 83 years old.

Still to come on the "News Hour": David# Brooks and Jamelle Bouie weigh in on the## week's political headlines; author Darren# Walker discusses his new book examining## inequality and democracy in the U.S.; and# it's the end of the penny.

We will explain.

Tech leaders from some of the country's# biggest companies met with President## Trump at the White House last night,# promising hundreds of billions of dollars## to accelerate artificial intelligence# and the infrastructure to power it.

They also offered unusually lavish# praise for the president at a moment## when many in the industry are pressing# for a hands-off regulatory approach.## It's all unfolding as electricity bills climb# nationwide, rising faster than inflation in## many places and in some regions far more# sharply.

The explosive growth of A.I.

and## the massive data centers behind it are# driving demand and straining the grid.

To explain how this hits consumers and what can# be done about it, I spoke earlier with Ari Peskoe,## director of the Electricity Law# Initiative at Harvard Law School.

So, electricity prices are surging nationwide.## To what extent is the rapid expansion of A.I.# and those data centers driving up those costs?

ARI PESKOE, Electricity Law Initiative# Director, Harvard Law School: So, the## rise of these industrial.. other Internet applications is certainly# one of the factors driving up prices.

And I think there's a chance that A.I.# is going to drive our bills even higher## in the future.

And there's a# couple of reasons for that.## One is that these facilities are using so much# energy that utilities are building billions of## dollars of infrastructure to support them# and spreading those costs to all of us.

And the second reason is that there# are energy markets where utilities## buy their power.

And because demand from# these A.I.

energy centers is booming,## it's driving up prices, and we're# all paying those higher prices.

GEOFF BENNETT: And some regions are# getting hit harder than others.

The## nationwide average increase is around# 6 percent, compared to as high as## 14 percent in places like New Jersey and# New York.

What explains those disparities?

ARI PESKOE: Well, a lot of our electricity bill# increases are due to decisions being made by your## local utility.

Three out of four Americans receive# electricity service from a for-profit company that## makes money by investing in infrastructure,# such as power lines and other related assets.

And so a lot of utilities have been replacing# power lines on their aging systems and investing## in new infrastructure.

And that's been driving# up bills.

But different utilities are making## different investment decisions, and that explains# some of the disparity around the country.

GEOFF BENNETT: I'm sure there are people who will# hear you say that and they will ask the question,## shouldn't the tech companies that are profiting# from these data centers and the A.I.

advances,## shouldn't they be the ones to# fit the bill?

Why are everyday## Americans being forced to pay these higher costs?

ARI PESKOE: That's exactly the# right question to be asking.

But the business model of the utility# industry for now more than 100 years has## been to invest in their systems and then# spread those costs for everyone.

That's## always thought to be the fair approach# to supporting our electricity system.

And when you think about it, in a lot# of ways, that is fair.

So, for example,## if there's a storm in your neighborhood and a# tree falls on a power line and the lights go## out in your neighborhood, the utility comes to# fix that, but it doesn't bill you and everyone## in your neighborhood for that.

Rather, it# spreads the cost of those repairs to everybody.

And that you know is seen to be fair,# because certainly you did nothing wrong## when that tree falls down.

And so that# idea of spreading costs through everyone,## when the utility needs to expand the system, it# doesn't just charge the new residences or new## businesses that are joining the system, but,# again, it spreads those costs to everyone.

We're in a bit of a new situation here# when you have individual facilities,## these data centers, that are using# as much electricity as large cities,## and they happen to be supporting the wealthiest# corporations in the world.

I think we need to## revisit some of these fundamental assumptions# behind how we share the costs of our power system.

GEOFF BENNETT: So much of this data# center build-out is relatively new.## Should we be bracing for even higher prices in# the years ahead or are we already seeing the peak?

ARI PESKOE: I think it's certainly# possible that the costs of this data## center expansion are going# to increase for everyone.

And that's because this -- data centers have been# part of the backbone of our Internet for some time## now, but the size of these facilities has just# so vastly expanded since the introduction of## ChatGPT just a few years ago really kicked# off this wave of, again, these city-sized## data centers that we have never seen before.# And many of them are still in development.

So the costs of all the infrastructure and energy## associated with them really# haven't hit our bills just yet.

GEOFF BENNETT: And, of course, the Trump# administration is pushing coal, natural gas,## nuclear power to meet the A.I.-driven demand,# while kind of moving away from renewable energy,## like wind and solar.

Do you see that# approach as addressing the core challenge## posed by the rising energy needs?

ARI PESKOE: No, I mean, it doesn't make any# sense to take supply options off the table.## And that's really what this administration# is doing, particularly with wind energy.

We really need every option we can to boost the# amount of electricity if we're going to power## these new computing facilities.

And, as I said,# demand is rising, and that's causing prices to## go up in many markets around the country.# When demand goes up, you want to increase## supply as well.

And under basic economics,# that's going to even out some of the prices.

But it doesn't make any sense what they're doing.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, higher bills are here to stay?

ARI PESKOE: That's certainly the# trend that we're seeing right now.

And all the trend lines are unfortunately pointing## in the wrong direction for consumers.# So it would be nice to see, again,## let's put more supply options on the table that'll# help alleviate some of the stress we're seeing.

And, in addition, we have to be able to get more# juice out of our current system.

We have to have## the utility industry operate it more efficiently,# so rather than just building more and more and## more, we're actually able to use what we have# in a more efficient, cost-effective manner.

GEOFF BENNETT: Ari Peskoe, director# of the Electricity Law Initiative## at Harvard Law School, great# to speak with you.

Thank you.

ARI PESKOE: Thanks so much.

AMNA NAWAZ:## Four years ago this past Sunday, the last American# soldier walked up the ramp of the last departing## military flight out of Kabul, ending nearly# 20 years of the American war in Afghanistan.

The U.S. also left thousands of# Afghans behind who had worked with## the United States and believed in the# American-led war against the Taliban.## Many of them are still left behind after the Trump# administration suspended all relocation programs.

Nick Schifrin spoke with two men# still in Afghanistan about the fear## they live with today and the dark# memories from the Taliban takeover.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Four years ago, a# community forsaken.

Thousands of## Afghans flooded Kabul Airport, desperate to# flee.

And many, having worked with the U.S.,## begged American soldiers for a# chance to keep their freedom.

MAN: I have all documents to go to U.S. NICK SCHIFRIN: As the Taliban took# back Afghanistan and after two decades,## the United States withdrew.

"MOHAMMAD," Former Humanitarian Coordinator:# That was very, very bad scenario for us,## not only for my family, but all the# Afghans, especially those who worked with## international India and for the U.S. During# that time, we have to say we lost our hope.

NICK SCHIFRIN: This is a man we will call# Mohammad, who's still in Afghanistan and whose## identity we are concealing and voice we are# altering.

He was a humanitarian coordinator## for more than 20 years.

He worked with USAID,# the U.N. and others to promote women's rights,## expand education, and bring together community# leaders from across the country to build peace.

What were you trying to accomplish by# helping the U.S. and the U.N. in Afghanistan?

"MOHAMMAD": The United States tried to# develop or increase democracy in Afghanistan,## in human rights, especially rights for# women and children.

I tried to educate## people.

And that was my responsibility.

It# was a good chance for me to serve my people,## my community, especially in remote areas where# they had no access to anything, no education,## no health services, no roads and no water.

NICK SCHIFRIN: But Mohammad's help# for his homeland nearly cost him## his only son.

He was kidnapped by the# Taliban and tortured for nearly a month.

"MOHAMMAD": They said they would# need $400,000 to release my son,## which was not possible for me.

Finally,# they accepted $60,000.

I had to sell## everything.

I lost my house.

I sold# my car.

Even after I received my son,## they messaged me that you have no more# rights to work with U.N. international NGOs,## especially with U.S. projects.

Otherwise, you# will be killed or we will kill your family.

It's very bad memory that I have.

And my# wife, after many years, she's not mentally OK. NICK SCHIFRIN: The family is not OK.# Today, the threat they face is daily.## When the Taliban took over, they released his# son's torturers, who are now local commanders.

"MOHAMMAD": This is the fourth house which I# changed.

During the four years, when me and my son## go to the bazaar, or market, we just put on masks# and sunglasses to not be recognized by anyone.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Under Taliban rule,# life for Afghans who aided America## has become a living nightmare.

The Taliban# administer their vengeance through torture,## drowning this former member of the security# forces, shooting this former police chief.

But America's Afghan allies have# nowhere to go.

Soon after inauguration,## President Trump suspended the Refugee# Admissions Program.

And in May,## Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem# rescinded Afghans' temporary protected status,## which allowed them to live in# the U.S. for up to 18 months.

She said Afghanistan's conditions -- quote# -- "do not meet the requirements for a TPS## designation," and that Afghanistan has had# an improved security situation.

In late July,## President Trump suggested he wanted to# take care of only some Afghan refugees.

QUESTION: What is America's debt to our Afghan# war allies that kept our veterans safe over there?## There's been some talk about sending a lot of them# back.

Would you let your administration do that?

DONALD TRUMP, President of the# United States: We know the good ones,## and we know the ones that maybe aren.. so good.

And we're going to take care of# those people, the ones that did a job.

"ABDUL," Former English Teacher: We were so# happy that he is the president of the United## States.

But he surprised everyone by what he# did, the executive orders, put on suspension.

NICK SCHIFRIN: A man we will call Abdul is a# former English teacher, including of girls.

He## worked with the U.S. Embassy and American Council# for five years before the Taliban takeover.

He'd been approved for a P-1 visa,# designated for at-risk refugees,## referred by U.S. government agencies and# NGOs.

He was just waiting for his medical## check in flight when President# Trump suspended the program.

We're changing your voice.

We're blurring your# face.

What's the risk that you face today?

"ABDUL": Two options, detain or kill.

If it's# known that I was a person who worked with the U.S.## Embassy and American Council, especially with the# people of America, there is no justice.

There is## no court.

They will just order their soldiers to# check their aim and just shoot you in your head.

I do not have a plan for now or for the future.# That is the situation at this time in Afghanistan.

NICK SCHIFRIN: An Afghanistan under the# Taliban is one of tyranny and tribulation.## Dissent is met with public execution.# Unemployment and inflation are high,## and women have been silenced, barred# from receiving an education or even## participating in almost all aspects of public# life.

Some of their homes are now their prisons.

"ABDUL": I no longer know what will be the# future of us, the future of my students,## who still didn't even complete their# education.

And these thoughts hit me## hard.

So, by the course of# time, even I feel depressed.

Why were we left behind?

What crime# did we commit?

We gave all of our## ability.

We gave everything we had.# And now we are living in limbo.

We## are living anonymously.

We are# hiding in a corner of our home.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Hiding and# hopeless.

Four years later,## American allies and many Afghans# have never felt more alone.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Nick Schifrin.

GEOFF BENNETT:## From today's weaker-than-expected j... to the president rebranding the Pentagon,## it's been another jam-packed week of news.

For analysis, we turn now to the analysis# of Brooks and Bouie.

That's David Brooks and## Jamelle Bouie, both columnists at The New York# Times.

Jonathan Capehart is away this evening.

It's good to see you both.

So, as we reported, the August# jobs report is out today,## and the numbers are fairly bleak.

The U.S.# economy added just 22,000 jobs last month,## well short of forecasts.

The unemployment rate# ticked up to its highest number in four years,## a setback for President Trump, David,# but it could, on the other hand,## bolster his argument that the Fed should cut# interest rates when it meets later this month.

How do you see it?

DAVID BROOKS: Well, infl.. target of 2.

So they're in a bit of a pickle.# They might cut a little bit, 25 basis points,## but it's hard to see them cutting a lot# more because of the inflation threat.

This is caused by -- as Austan Goolsbee# sort of suggested earlier in the program,## I think it's caused by uncertainty about the# tariffs, but then also the cuts in immigration.## 2025 could be the first year in American history# where America loses population.

And immigrants,## whether you like high immigration or don't,# they're an economic boon to the country.

And if you take away all that labor, you're# taking away a source of economic strength.## One of the things that was more interesting# about the report was that the number of## manufacturing jobs lost last month was# 12,000, and that brings the total number## of lost manufacturing jobs under the# Trump administration of 78,000 people.

That's not what he was promising when he was# running.

So he's really not helping.

And, finally,## the most depressing thing for me and the most# concerning is attitudes about what's happening.## The Wall Street Journal had a poll out earlier# this week where they asked people, do you think## there's a chance, any chance, your living standard# will go up?

Only 25 percent of Americans say that.

That's the lowest level since 1986.

Something# weird has happened about people's view of the## country and the economy.

There's a way to predict# how people will view the economy based on economic## statistics.

And up until COVID, the statistics# and the consumer sentiment rose and fall together.

After COVID, they're totally diverged.# The economic statistics look pretty good,## but the people's view of the economy is cratering.## And that's just a generalized loss# of faith, the growth of pessimism.

GEOFF BENNETT: Yes.

And, Jamelle, for the first time since 2021,## there are now more unemployed Americans than# job openings.

What does that tell us about## the direction of the labor market and how# does it shape the larger political debate?

JAMELLE BOUIE, The New York Times: Well,# the labor market is clearly weakening.

And I think that it is something that is going to# be a real challenge for the administration.

It's,## I think, important to recognize that Trump won# reelection or won this second term on essentially## an economic argument: I will lower the cost of# goods and services.

I will ensure prosperity.

And he won narrowly on that basis.

And if --# his term thus far has been characterized by## job losses, by slowdowns, by rising inflation,# by the exact opposite of what he promised.

This,## to me, signals that the administration's and the# president's party is simply in trouble going into## the end of this year and the beginning of next# year and the beginning of midterm elections,## say nothing of the upcoming elections in New# Jersey and Virginia, where we will start to## get a sense of where the public stands# with regards to Republican governance.

GEOFF BENNETT: The president seizing# on these jobs numbers to hammer the## Fed and to hammer Democrats, how# effective is that line of attack?

DAVID BROOKS: I think it probably# pleases people to hammer the Fed.

I mean,## they're unelected.

A lot of people don't# like it.

Republicans don't like it.

But just to give Jerome Powell credit where# it's due, never before in American history## have we brought down inflation# without recession.

And he did it,## along with the other Fed governors.

So I think# what they have achieved over the last several## years to me is kind of remarkable.

But no# president likes the Fed because he wants the## Fed to pump up the -- or pump up -- or pump down# interest rates, if you can pump down something... (LAUGHTER) DAVID BROOKS: ... and in order.. election.

But that's precisely# why we have an independent Fed.

JAMELLE BOUIE: Right.

Right.

Right.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, on that point,## I mean, President Trump's nominee for the# open Fed governor role, Step.. at his confirmation hearing this past week# said he wouldn't fully resign his position at## the White House while filling this vacant seat# on the Federal Reserve's board, if confirmed.

So how troubling is this dual role arrangement# for the institutional independence of the Fed?

JAMELLE BOUIE: I mean, I would call it very# troubling.

It's very clear that the president## wants to undermine Fed independence, and he's# trying to do everything he can to make that## happen.

The accusations against Lisa Cook,# the supposed firing of Cook is part of this.

And I would consider this another attack# on Fed independence for exactly the reasons## David described.

He wants to lower rates.

He# wants essentially the Fed to act as a kind of## backstop to his own irresponsible set of economic# policies with regards to tariffs and immigration.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, say more about that, this# notion that the president is treating independent## economic bodies as tools of political strategy,# rather than tools of technocratic governance.

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I mean, he's a# personalist.

He thinks the office## of the presidency is not something that belongs# to the American people, but it belongs to him.

And this has been a pretty consistent# theme, in fact, amazingly consistent theme,## throughout his entire administration.

And we# relied on the idea that some things are sacred,## some things you just don't do.

There# are lines.

We all have these -- like,## in journalism, we're not going to be# journalists and also run for office as## a Democrat and Republican.

We're just# not going to do that.

There's a line.

And the fact that they didn't -- weren't# intuitively and instinctively appalled by## the idea of crossing that line shows# that just the norm has gone away.

GEOFF BENNETT: As we reported earlier this# evening, President Trump signed an executive## order today renaming the Defense Department# the Department of War, his latest move to## project military toughness.

You can see the# old sign there at the Pentagon coming down.

Jamelle, what does this rebranding# suggest about -- rather,## how should we understand the symbolize --# symbolism behind all of this as we also## look at the administration's policy# and its approach using the military?

JAMELLE BOUIE: Yes.

(LAUGHTER) JAMELLE BOUIE: I -- part of me wants to say# that this is just .. first of all, the executive order# specifically says you can call the## Department of Defense Department# of War as well if you want to,## but officially it is still the Department# of Defense, right?

That's established by## congressional statute.

That's not something the# president kind of just changed unilaterally.

I suppose you can say that, beyond# whatever P.R.

thing he's looking at,## it's supposed to signal the return of,# as secretary of defense -- I'm not going## to call him secretary of war -- Secretary of# Defense Pete Hegseth says, maximum lethality.

And I suppose it's demonstrated# by the recent attack on the boat## allegedly of Venezuelan drug dealers.

But as has# emerged out of that, what we see are a lot of## questions about the decision-making that went# into that, about the legality of that strike.

This recommitment to lethality appears# to also be kind of a P.R.

thing.

Like,## I don't see anything strategic or interested in# the national security interests of the United## States.

What I see here is a president# who understands the entire world as a## kind of television show, and secretary of war# sounds better for TV than secretary of defense.

GEOFF BENNETT: Do you see a through line here, the# rebranding of the Pentagon, the deadly strikes on## this alleged drug-running boat off the coast# of Venezuela without congressional approval,## the president sending federal troops into L.A. and# D.C. and threatening to do the same in Chicago?

I mean, what story is the president trying to tell# about himself and the power of the presidency?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I don't think it rises# to TV.

I think it's more "Call of Duty."

(LAUGHTER) DAVID BROOKS: And, you know, the Pentagon was# re.. were there when it was renamed were people like# James Forrestal, who was secretary of defense,## and then later George Marshall.

And# the Joint -- chairman of the Joint## Chiefs was Omar Bradley, literally# the guys who won in World War II.

And they did not have anything to prove about# their machismo.

And I found that the people I## admire who really have shown toughness in# combat, men and women, they don't need to## brag about it.

They don't need to say secretary of# war.

They're like, no, I'm not going to do that.## You will never hear one of them say, hey, let's# lock and load.

They just don't talk that way.

And this crew -- to go from George Marshall# to Pete Hegseth, that's a long way.

And I'm## conservative.

I believe government should# be careful about assuming what it knows,## because the world is really complicated.# And sending a missile at some ship where## you don't know what's on the# ship, that's just foolish.

It's killing people, potentially -- well,## absolutely, when you don't even know what# they're doing.

There's a reason we board ships,## because you want to have some evidence that# you're actually going after drug dealers,## rather than whatever, some random 11 people# on a boat.

And so the targeting of ships## using acts of war what should be acts of law# enforcement really does cross a line to me.

GEOFF BENNETT: In the time that remains, I want to# talk to you both about the New York mayor's race,## largely because the mayor, Eric Adams,# said tonight that he is going to stay in## the race and run for reelection.

This# is amid the reporting that the Trump## administration is considering nominating# him to serve as ambassador to Saudi Arabia## to prompt him to exit the mayoral race and# consolidate the opposition to the Democratic## socialist candidate, Zohran Mamdani,# potentially benefiting Andrew Cuomo.

Jamelle, why is Donald Trump so invested in making## sure that Andrew Cuomo is the# next mayor of New York City?

JAMELLE BOUIE: I think Donald Trump, first of all,## if he could have had anything in his life,# it might have been to be mayor of New York## City.

I think in a lot of ways he's a# big city mayor that escaped containment.

(LAUGHTER) JAMELLE BOUIE: But.. as just something he thinks is bad for# New York.

I suppose he believes it's## bad for the country.

He doesn't see it in its# political interest and wants to see an ally,## Cuomo, who has given every indication that# he would cooperate with the administration,## especially with immigration enforcement,# in the New York mayor's office.

I think that the strategy here is probably# misguided.

New Yorkers do not approve of## Trump.

And giving Mamdani an opportunity to# basically run against Trump, which is what## Adams doing -- Adams dropping out would do, I# think would only be down to Mamdani's benefit.

GEOFF BENNETT: It's striking.

You have got# a right-wing populist in Trump targeting## a left-wing populist in Mamdani in this political## era that, as you so often say, is# defined by the rise of populism.

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, though I do like sending people## to ambassadorships to get them out of# the way.

This is a sac.. DAVID BROOKS: I think FDR sent Joe Kennedy# away.

I think John F. Kennedy sent Adlai## Stevenson.

There was talk, I think, of# sending Chris Christie during the first## Trump -- let's send him to Australia.

So# this is not the first time somebody's used## an ambassadorship as an attempt to get# rid of someone politically inconvenient.

GEOFF BENNETT: David Brooks, Jamelle Bouie,# it's good to see you both.

Have a great weekend.

DAVID BROOKS: Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ:## Darren Walker has spent much of his life fighting# inequality.

From humble beginnings in rural Texas,## he went on to lead one of the nation's# most powerful philanthropic institutions,## overseeing billions in funding to address# some of the country's most pressing crises.

Walker is now nearing the end of his tenure# as president of the Ford Foundation and is## out with a new book called "The Idea# of America: Reflections on Inequality,## Democracy, and the Values We Share."

And Darren Walker joins me now.

And we should note as well that the# Ford Foundation is a funder of PBS News.

Darren, welcome back to the "News# Hour."

Thanks for joining us.

DARREN WALKER, Author, "The Idea of#America: Reflections... Democracy, and the Values We#Share": Delighted to be here.

AMNA NAWAZ: There are a number of themes# throughout this collec.. essays and speeches and other remarks you have# made over the last 12 years.

One is this idea of## how you see the world and how you lead, and that# it's all deeply defined by where you come from.

So tell me about how your# beginnings came to define## where you are now and how you see the world.

DARREN WALKER: Well, this book is# really a love letter to America,## to the country that made possible my improbable# journey, and a country like no other in the world,## where a boy born to a single mother in a charity# hospital in rural Louisiana could grow up dreaming## and believing that dreams -- if I worked hard,# if I could sacrifice, and if I had ambition and## humility and held onto that dream, that indeed# my American dream could become a reality.

And that has happened.

"The Idea of America,"# the title of my book, is among is among the most## tested and contested words in American history.# The idea of America meant many different things## to our founding fathers, but they had a shared# belief, a set of principles and values that they## documented in our founding documents, that# today we need to be mindful of and return to## as we grapple with the unprecedented levels of# polarization that we see in our country today.

AMNA NAWAZ: And, as we speak, we should# note America is also at a time of growing## inequality.

It's an equality you have worked hard# to address over your time at the Ford Foundation.

But you do write in one of# your pieces in the book that:## "This tension is plain to see.

Our systems# in America perpetuate vast differences in## privilege and then task the privileged, all of# us, with improving the systems that benefit us."

So, Darren, what is the role of philanthropy# in all of this?

I mean, you write that it can't## save America, so what should be the goal# and the mission of philanthropy right now?

DARREN WALKER: Well, I'm inspired by# the words of Dr. Martin Luther King,## who wrote about philanthropy the following:# "Philanthropy is commendable, but it should not## allow the philanthropist to overlook the economic# injustice which makes philanthropy necessary."

And so what Dr. King was calling us# to was to examine our own culpability,## our own complicity and engagement in creating# some of the very challenges we seek through## philanthropy to solve.

And what I mean by# that is looking at how our own behaviors,## whether it's our investments, whether# it's our way we treat the climate,## the environment, et cetera, how that contributes# to some of the problems of poverty and inequality.

You know, the reality of our country is# that hope is the oxygen of democracy.## We today, unfortunately, have a crisis of# hope in America.

Now is the time to roll up## our sleeves and be committed to whatever our# identities are.

I am Black.

I am gay.

Yes,## those are my identities, but the most# important identity is that I am an American.

And we Americans share a set of# values.

We have very different## views about many things.

But we --# as our founding fathers reminded us,## we must share the values of consensus building,# of engagement, of understanding that ultimately## compromise is necessary for democracy# to continue to sustain, to be vibrant.

AMNA NAWAZ: Darren, a lot of those goals feel very## distant to people at a time of such# deep divisions in America right now.

And your New Year's message in 2017, this# was just weeks before Donald Trump was## sworn into office for the first time, that# message was titled "Let America Be America## Again."

And you talk about the tension, as# you write, between a sense that our times are## dangerously unprecedented and a sense that,# while dangerous, they are all too familiar.

So are we just repeating old# cycles here?

How do you see this?

DARREN WALKER: Well, there is no doubt# that there are cycles of progress and## regress in our history.

But the one# consistent theme in American history## is that there have been patriots, people who# love their country, who love this country.

Fannie Lou Hamer loved America, even# though in her lifetime she knew that## she would never see the justice that she# hoped for.

And yet she carried that flag## across rural roads of Mississippi and Alabama# to Washington, D.C. She believed in America,## as Langston Hughes did in his great poem "Let# America Be America Again," which begins with:## "Let America be America again.# America never was America to me."

He is expressing his anger, his rage at being# a Black man who is marginalized in the 1930s## living in Harlem.

And yet he ends the poem with# the stanza: "But oh, someday America will be."

He believed in America.

And, today, when some# people feel hopeless and feel depressed, I'm## inspired because Langston Hughes and Fannie Lou# Hamer and so many others call out to me to help## this country to do what I can to contribute to# ensuring that the words in our founding documents## that inequality and justice for all is our North# Star, that e pluribus unum is indeed possible.

So, yes, I may sound naive, but I# love my country.

I am not prepared## to give up on America, and I hope# others will join me in this pursuit.

AMNA NAWAZ: Your message of radical hope is# one I think many of us could use right now.

That book is "The Idea of America,"# and the author is Darren Walker.

Darren, thank you so much.# Pleasure to speak with you.

DARREN WALKER: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT:## The penny could soon be a thing# of the past.

President Trump is## pushing to end production of the 1# cent coin, citing its rising costs.

Each penny costs nearly 4 cents to make, and# scrapping it could save taxpayers about $56## million a year.

And that raises the question,# does it still make sense to keep minting them?

Our Deema Zein has more.

DEEMA ZEIN: It's the latest step in the Trump# administration's push to end the 1 cent piece.

For more on this fight and what it could mean# for you, we're now joined by John Feigenbaum,## who runs Whitman Publishing, a# leading producer of numismatic## reference books and executive director# of Professional Numismatists Guild,## an organization made up of the country's top# rare coin and collectible paper money dealers.

John, welcome to the program.

JOHN FEIGENBAUM, Executive Director, Professional# Numismatists Guild: Thank you fo.. DEEMA ZEIN: To jump in, I want to# ask, how big of a deal is .. JOHN FEIGENBAUM: You know, it's a huge deal that# we're finally coming to an end with the United## States cent.

It's an amazing time in collecting# for us and in the whole numismatic community.

And we have been waiting for this shoe to# drop, actually, I have, for a long time.

DEEMA ZEIN: So in 2006, the penny# became more expensive to make than## its value.

Can you talk a little# bit about how that stands today?

JOHN FEIGENBAUM: Yes.

I think,# the last time we checked,## it cost 3.7 cents to make a 1 cent penny.

So,# as you can see, every time you make a coin,## you lose money, which is really a bad# situation for any manufacturing facility,## which is what the United States Mint# really is at the end of the day.

DEEMA ZEIN: And talking about how much money that# is, how big of savings is this really going to be?

JOHN FEIGENBAUM: Well, it's substantial.# And I think it would be really exciting## if we shifted the production from,# let's say, the penny to a $5 coin,## for example, which I think is much# more practical in the current time.

I mean, let's buy a cup of# coffee with a coin rather than,## what can we do with a penny?

I don't# know.

I don't pick them up anymore.

DEEMA ZEIN: The nickel costs 13.8# cents to produce.

That's a 5 cent## nickel.

So do we see that other coins# could be next on the chopping block?

JOHN FEIGENBAUM: You know, I would suspect that# practical minds would prevail in that regard.## And I think the nickel is probably in# the same department where it should## be reconsidered whether we keep making them.

You know, again, it's the whole,## do I pick this up off the street kind# of mentality, does it pass that test?

DEEMA ZEIN: So what are some, then, the potential## downstream consequences that we may see# as a result of getting rid of the penny?

JOHN FEIGENBAUM: Well, I mean, the# common argument against getting rid## of the penny has traditionally been that# this hurts low-income families and things## like that.

And it's certainly something# that we should be very sensitive about.

But we're -- the practical remedy is to# round up to the nearest -- right now the## nickel.

I just think it's a better use of# the government's time and energies to make## a more valuable coin that you could# buy a cup of coffee or a sandwich.

DEEMA ZEIN: What's going to happen with# those pennies that are circulating now?

JOHN FEIGENBAUM: Well, there is nothing short# of billions of these pennies in circulation## sitting in jars and all over this country and# in the world.

So the pennies are still legal## tender.

So you don't have to rush to the bank# to get rid of them.

You can hold on to them.

They will still always be worth one# penny and perhaps they will be worth## more if collectors get super interested# in the hobby.

But they're always going## to be worth the penny.

So I think that# people will find interest in this.

I mean,## you have invited me here to your show, which# is just -- I can't tell you, is wonderful.

And I hope that this sparks# an interest in our hobby.

DEEMA ZEIN: John Feigenbaum, thank# you so much for joining us today.

JOHN FEIGENBAUM: Well, thank you for having me.

GEOFF BENNETT: Be sure to watch "Washington# Week With The Atlantic" tonight here on## PBS.

Jeffrey Goldberg and his panel# discuss President Trump's rebrand of## the Defense Department and the fallout from# Secretary Kennedy's heated Senate hearing.

AMNA NAWAZ: And watch "PBS News Weekend" tomorrow# for a look at the Trump administration's plans to## eliminate the federal agency that# investigates chemical disasters.

And that is the "News Hour"# for tonight.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

For all of us here at the "PBS News Hou.. for spending part of your evening# with us.

Have a great weekend.