- Hey, where is everybody?

Doesn't anybody wanna get this wall built?

All right, all right, we're just jokin' around, but there is an important truth here.

When we're talkin' about border security, but there is an important truth here.

it's always about down there, and yet up here, there's the largest militarized border in the entire world.

there's the largest militarized border And just on the other side, enough maple syrup there's the largest militarized border to drown an entire town.

That actually happened once by the way.

The U.S.-Canada border has essentially been peaceful That actually happened once by the way.

since the end of the war of 1812, and in doing so, it's created a huge historical anomaly.

Centuries of trust and easy passage.

So if we're talkin' about putting up border walls, why not make the northern one secure too, So if we're talkin' about putting up border walls, especially since it's the biggest one in the game.

If we made America from scratch today, would we build a wall on the U.S.-Canada border.

- This unguarded metal fence is the only thing preventing criminal gangs, drug smugglers, - This unguarded metal fence is the only thing and human traffickers from entering this remote corner - This unguarded metal fence is the only thing of New York.

If you look at the number of people who were apprehended from the terror watch list, around a dozen were stopped on the southern border in the fiscal year of 2018 while in that first half of that same period, more than triple that number were stopped on the Canadian border, around 41.

- President Donald Trump has been pushing for a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border around 41.

- President Donald Trump since his campaign.

He's claimed that undocumented immigrants inevitably lead to an increase in crime.

This language has obviously rallied his political base, inevitably lead to an increase in crime.

but the statistics don't back up everything he's saying.

In fact, according to U.S. Customs and Border Protection Data, illegal immigration across our southern border has been decreasing for the past 20 years.

As far as crime goes, libertarian research group, the Cato Institute found that in Texas, conviction rates are lower for undocumented immigrants the Cato Institute found that in Texas, than people born in the U.S. the Cato Institute found that in Texas, You may not know this because of the way our southern border is covered by the media, but every day, You may not know this because of the way our southern border about a million people cross back and forth legally.

In fact, there are cohesive metro areas that are split up by the border, like El Paso and Juarez, In fact, there are cohesive metro areas and San Diego and Tijuana.

In fact, there are cohesive metro areas There's a name for cities like this, binational.

In fact, there are cohesive metro areas Cities like this, cohesive metro areas split by a national border appear all over the world.

Cities like this, cohesive metro areas split By comparison to our north, about 400,000 people cross back and forth across the border daily, and it's not as heavily patrolled.

about 400,000 people cross back and forth CBS News reported that illegal Canadian border crossings had ballooned 142 percent between 2017 and 2018.

That's partially because the northern border doesn't get the resources and attention that the southern border does.

doesn't get the resources and attention Some of the border is protected by censor boxes that alert off officers if someone crosses.

Sort of like an international doorbell, except there's no door.

Well, how come there's no talk about the northern border at all?

- I knew you were gonna ask me this question, so, 'cause I don't think about the northern border - I knew you were gonna ask me this question, a whole lot.

(mellow music) At least not from an illegal migration perspective.

It actually is a big issue from a business immigration perspective, but not such a big issue from an illegal.

- Unlike our northern border, there are a record amount of people being apprehended at our southern border, the highest since 2007. of people being apprehended at our southern border, So let's take a look at why that is.

When you talk about this administration's reaction So let's take a look at why that is.

to what's going on at the border, So let's take a look at why that is.

what exactly is going on at the border?

- Well, so if you ask me, what's going on at the border is a symptom of what's going on in Central America, - Well, so if you ask me, what's going on at the border in the northern triangle of Central America.

- What Leon is talking about is the poverty, corruption, in the northern triangle of Central America.

violence, and affects of climate change that the people of Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador are currently facing, causing them to leave their homes and seek asylum in Mexico and the U.S. (somber music) - Those are countries that have the first, second, and fourth highest homicide rates in the world.

- Wow.

- It's not just poverty.

Poverty's bad, but what if you're so poor, - Wow.

- It's not just poverty.

you can't afford enough food to feed your kids.

(somber music) May perceive coming to the U.S. as maybe a life (somber music) and death issue possibly, as well.

- Other people have been harmed by gangs in Central America.

and death issue possibly, as well.

(somber music) and death issue possibly, as well.

Other families and women have been victims and death issue possibly, as well.

of gender-based violence in their home countries.

- [Leon] So that's where the crisis is.

of gender-based violence in their home countries.

What's going on at the border is a manifestation of gender-based violence in their home countries.

and symptom of that crisis.

- A large group of people are making their way to our southern border to seek asylum.

and symptom of that crisis.

- A large group of people The problem is is that once that get there, and symptom of that crisis.

- A large group of people it may take years before their case is even decided.

and symptom of that crisis.

- A large group of people As of March 2019, the average wait time for those under the defensive asylum process in California was over two years, according to the TRAC.

under the defensive asylum process in California - Look, I take personal, under the defensive asylum process in California some personal responsibility for this.

- Mhm.

- Is the long wait times.

some personal responsibility for this.

- [Reporter] Along the southern border, migrants seeking asylum in the United States are now being told - [Reporter] Along the southern border, migrants to wait here in Mexico.

- [Reporter] Along the southern border, migrants - I mean, border patrol is overwhelmed.

The U.S. Department of Justice doesn't have enough lawyers to handle it.

- It used to be that I could just walk up to a border guard and say I want to request asylum, and I would be processed immediately.

Now, what we have seen in recent years is that to limit the number of people who can do that, Now, what we have seen in recent years the U.S. has instituted a program where migrants essentially have to go and take a number.

- There are also those that say the real crisis at the southern border comes from Mexican drug cartels that have taken it over.

at the southern border comes from Mexican drug cartels So with all your experience, knowing the cost, the numbers, the human power, the monetary power So with all your experience, knowing the cost, the numbers, that it's all gonna take, how do we need to change the way that we look at the border to better approach the issue?

- So when I got down how do we need to change the way that we look at the border to the border, what struck me most was that there's a power vacuum in the sense that because the U.S., nor Mexico, is properly securing the border, a densely populated border at that, and like all power vacuums, it gets filled.

a densely populated border at that, In this case it's being dulled by the Mexican drug cartels who have pretty much taken over much of the border on the Mexican side.

- So certainly, there's a role that smugglers play in promoting and exploiting the migration.

there's a role that smugglers play A lot of those smugglers are in fact affiliated there's a role that smugglers play with the drug gangs.

- The drug cartel members, themselves, aren't the ones doing it.

They pay other people to do it most of the time.

For example, the truck drivers driving through check points with 50 or 60 legal aliens in the back of an 18-wheeler, they get paid about $1000 per person.

So I think the first thing we need to do they get paid about $1000 per person.

is secure our own border, not leave it to the hands of cartel members who are abusing people on both sides.

- So one presented solution is to increase resources on our southern border to fill the power vacuum that's been left to the Mexican drug cartels, but some experts say that it's the struggles that's been left to the Mexican drug cartels, with our current asylum process that's responsible that's been left to the Mexican drug cartels, for so many people trying to enter the country illegally in the first place.

for so many people trying to enter the country illegally So as we make the path tougher for so many people trying to enter the country illegally for asylum seekers, it could ramp up people trying to cross the border?

for asylum seekers, - Purely illegal immigration, that's right.

for asylum seekers, - Okay.

- That's right.

That ends up being the consequence of closing off any meaningful path for asylum.

That ends up being the consequence of closing off - What would be the first step in the right direction to proactively creating a new perspective of the border?

- So many things, so I think the first thing that we could do is to end the practice of making people wait in line, take a number before they can request asylum.

of making people wait in line, take a number There's no reason that we can't increase staffing at the border and process more people in.

- To figure out what to do with our own borders, we could look to how they're handled elsewhere.

- To figure out what to do with our own borders, What do other international borders look like around the world?

Well, it varies.

look like around the world?

While we picture borders in our head as hard and fast and easy to put a wall on, While we picture borders in our head there are so many that defy that rule.

The Belgian town of Baarle-Hertog and the Dutch town of Baarle-Nassau are literally intertwined with Belgian enclaves strewn throughout Netherlands's territory.

And did you know that Liberty Island, home to New York's Statue of Liberty, is technically part of New Jersey?

home to New York's Statue of Liberty, The two states have an agreement and split responsibility of the island, and on that U.S.-Canada border we've been talking about, in Derby Line, Vermont, of the island, and on that U.S.-Canada border we've a library and opera house straddles the line and serves both countries, but there are plenty of countries that do have physical border barriers of some kind.

There have been 51 of them built since the end of World War II and about half of those have gone up since 2000.

MIT researchers found that these modern barriers, have gone up since 2000. including the walls and fencing found have gone up since 2000. on the U.S.-Mexico border were primarily built by richer countries to keep citizens on the U.S.-Mexico border were primarily built from neighboring poorer countries out.

But do they work the way they're intended?

So and you wrote for the Richmond Times once that a wall by itself does not stop people from entering the country, so it brings me to the question, do you believe a physical barrier is necessary essentially to stop people from entering the country?

- Only where it makes sense.

I mean, there are some places where the natural geography means it doesn't make sense.

I mean, there are some places where the natural geography - Mm.

- Some places, the geography or demographics, just dense populations, - Mm.

- Some places, it does makes sense.

Unfortunately, a wall's become a symbol, and whether it's a motion detector or a camera or a wall, they are all just aids and whether it's a motion detector to get a person there, law enforcement there, to make the arrest in a timely manner.

to get a person there, law enforcement there, Most illegal aliens to this country overstay visas.

to get a person there, law enforcement there, Most people entering the country illegally in the first place though do not come through ports of entry.

They enter between them across the border, so that's really where the physical barrier is for.

They enter between them across the border, - [Leon] I don't personally want the border to become a way for us to not support people struggling in our neighboring countries.

- Mhm.

- And turn a humanitarian crisis into purely a law enforcement crisis.

(Douglas speaks in a foreign language) into purely a law enforcement crisis.

- So now, it's time for you to weigh in.

When we talk about building a wall in one place and not another, what does that say about what we're really afraid of?

And what we're not?