>> Ted: Next on "Arizona Horizon" the full testimony of Arizona house speaker Rusty Bowers who appeared before the house committee investigating the attack on the U.S. capitol and hear that testimony in its entirety next on "Arizona Horizon."

Good evening and welcome to "Arizona Horizon."

I'm Ted Simons.

Arizona house speaker Rusty Bowers testified before the January 6th committee investigating last year's attack on the U.S. capitol.

Speaker's testimony was relative Viv of riveting and here is that testimony in its entirety.

>> Do you swear on the penalty of purgery that the testimony you about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Thank you, please be seated.

And that'sThe witness answered in the affirmative and speaker Bowers, thank you for being with us today.

You're the speaker of the Arizona house and a self-described conservative republican and you campaigned for President Trump and with him during the 20 election.

2020 election.

Is it fair to say you wanted Donald Trump to win a second term in office?

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

>> Sit your understanding >> It is your understanding President Biden was the winner in 2020?

>> Yes, sir.

>> Thank you.

>> Pursuant to section 5C8 of house resolution 503, the chair recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr. Schiff for questions.

>> Speaker Bowers, thank you for being with us and before we begin, I wanted to ask you about a statement that former President Trump issued, which I received just prior to the hearing and have you had a chance to review that statement?

>> My counsel called from Arizona and read it to me, yes, sir.

>> In that statement, and I won't read it in its entirety.

Former primp begins by calling you a rhino in republican name only and references a conversation in November of 2020 in which he claims that you told him that the election was rigged and that he had won Arizona.

To quote the former president during the conversation, he told me the election was rigged that I won Arizona, unquote.

Did you have such a conversation with the president?

>> I did have a conversation with the president and that certainly isn't it.

There are parts that are true, but there are parts that are not, sir.

>> And the part that I read you, is that false?

>> Anywhere, anyone, anytime has said I said the election was rigged, that would not be true.

>> And when the former president in his statement today claimed that you told him that he won Arizona, is that also false?

>> That is also false.

>> Mr. Bowers, I understand after the election and I don't know whether this is the conversation the former president is referring to, but after the election, you received a phone call from Mr. trump and Mr. Giuliani in which they discussed the election in Arizona, and tell us about that call and whether the former president or Mr. Giuliani raised allegations of election fraud.

>> Thank you.

Mr. wife and I returned from attending our church meetings on a Sunday and we were still in the driveway and I had received a call from a colleague telling me the White House was trying to get in touch with her and I and that she said, please, if you get a call, let's try to take this together.

And immediately, I say that the White House on my bluetooth was calling and I took the call and I would hold for the president, which I did.

Mr. Giuliani came on first.

And niceties and then, Mr. President Trump, came on.

We initiated a conversation.

>> And during that conversation, did you ask Mr. Giuliani for proof of the allegations of fraud he was making?

>> On multiple occasions, yes.

>> When you asked him for evidence, what did he say?

>> He said that they did have proof and I asked him, do you have names?

For example, we have 200,000 illegal immigrants and some large number.

And five or six thousand dead people, et cetera.

And I said, do you have their names?

Yes.

And will you give them to me?

Yes.

And the president interrupted and give the man what he needs, Rudy.

He said, I will.

And that happened on two occasions, that interchange in the conversation.

>> So Mr. Giuliani claims there were hundreds of thousands undocumented people and thousands of dead people who had purportedly voted in the election?

>> Yes.

>> And you asked him for evidence of that?

>> I did.

>> And did you ever receive during the call, after the call or to this day?

>> Never.

>> What was the ask during the call?

He was making these allegations of fraud, but he had something or a couple of things that they wanted you to do and what were those?

>> The ones I remember were first that we would hold, that I would allow an official committee at the capitol so that they could hear this evidence and that we could take action thereafter and I refused and I said, up to that time the sir circus, I called it a circus had been brewing with lots of demonstrations at the center and at the capitol and other places I didn't want to have that in the house.

I did not feel that the evidence, granted in its absence, merited a hearing and I didn't want to be used as a pawn.

And if there was some other need that the committee hearing would fulfill.

And so that was the first ask, that we hold an official committee hearing.

>> And what was his second ask?

>> I said to what end, to what end the hearing?

He said, well, we have heard by an official high-up in the republican legislature that there is a legal theory or a legal ability in Arizona that you can remove the electors of President Biden and replace them and we would like to have the legitimate opportunity through the committee to come to that end and remove that and I said that's totally new to me.

I've never heard of any such thing.

And he press ed this point and I said, look, you're asking me to do something that is counter to my oath when I swore to the down substitutiontheconstitution to uphold it and to the state of Arizona.

And this is totally foreign as an idea or a theory to me and I would never do anything of such magnitude without deep consultation without attorneys and I have good attorneys.

I'll give you their names.

But you are asking me do something against my oath and I will not break my oath and I think that was up to that point.

>> During the conversation, and you heard, I think, will be played a snippet Mr. Giuliani calls other state legislators, did he make a similar appeal to you or that you shared a similar party?

>> Whether it was in that call or a later meeting, he did bring that up more than once?

>> How would he bring that up?

>> Aren't we all republicans here?

I would think we would get a better reception.

I would think you would listen a little more open to my suggestions, that we're all republicans.

>> And this evidence that you asked him for that would justify that extraordinary step, I think you said they never produced it.

Why did you feel in the absence of that evidence or what you were asking you do would violate your only to the constitution?

>> First of all, when the people, and in Arizona, I believe some 40 plus years earlier, the legislature had established the manner of electing our officials or the electors for the presidential race.

Once it was given to the people as in bush V. gore, it's a fundamental right to the people.

As far as I'm concerned, for someone to ask me, I'll call it a pos possy, no evidence of any strength.

It could be hearsay evidence and strong judicial quality evidence and anything that would say to me, you have a doubt, deny your oath.

I will not do that.

And on more than -- on more than one occasion throughout this, that has been brought up and a tenet of my faith that the constitution is divinely inspired of my most basic foundational beliefs.

And so, for me to do that because somebody just asked me to is foreign to my very being.

I will not do it.

>> During that conversation, speaker Bowers, did you ask him if he was proposing had ever been done before?

>> I did.

>> What did he say?

>> He said I'm not familiar with Arizona laws or any other law, but I don't think so.

>> And that also was brought up in other conversations, both with him and John eastman and others.

>> Speaker Bowers, I understand Mr. Giuliani with an effort to overturn that in a hotel ballroom in phoenix.

Was this an official hearing of the state legislature?

>> This was not.

>> Was it not a real official hearing of the legislature?

>> A legislator can hold a group meeting and call it a hearing, but when they asked me to have an official hearing, we establish it by protocols, public notice, et cetera and it's typically held at the capitol and doesn't need to be, and we can authorize a hearing off-campus.

In this case, I had been asked on several occasions to allow hearing, and I denied it.

I said you're free to hold a meeting, any meeting you want, to which he ultimately did.

I think he was a little frustrated and ultimately did.

>> This meeting was the same day, I believe, the governor of Arizona, Doug Ducey, certified Biden as the president in Arizona.

Did you neat while meet while they were in phoenix during that purported meeting at the hotel in.

>> I did.

>> Did he raise any allegations of election fraud again?

>> His initial comments were, again, the litany of groups of illegal individuals or people deceased, et cetera, and he brought that up and I wasn't alone in that meeting and others, other members of the senate, aggressively questioned him.

And then I proceeded to question him on the proof that he was going to bring me, et cetera.

He did bring those up, yes.

>> These other legislators were republican members of the senate.

senate?

>> They were, yes, sir.

>> To they press him for proof?

>> They pressed him very strongly, two of them, very strongly.

>> At some point, did Mr. Giuliani ask one of the other attorneys on his team to help him out with the evidence?

>> He did.

He asked Jenna Ellis to his right.

One thing was, it was more to the point, was there sufficient evidence or action that we could justify the recalling of the electors and at that part of the conversation, I know he referred to someone else, but he did ask, do we have the proof, to Jenna, Miss Ellis, and she said yes.

And I said, I want the names.

Do you have the names?

Yes.

Do you have how they voted?

And we have all of the information.

I can can you said, can you get to me that information?

Did you bring it with you?

She said no, both Mr. Giuliani asked her and I asked generally if they brought it with them and no, it's not with me, but we can get it to you.

And I said, you didn't bring me the evidence, which was repeated in different iterations for some period of time.

>> At some point, did one of them make a comment that they didn't have evidence but a lot of theories?

>> That was Mr. Giuliani.

>> What did he say?

>> We have a lot of theories.

We just don't have the evidence.

I don't know if that was a gaffe or he didn't think through what he said, but both myself and others in my group, the three in my group and my counsel both remembered that specifically and afterwards we laughed about it.

>> Getting back to the ask if that phone call that preceded that meeting, he wanted you to have the legislature dismiss the Biden electors and replace them with trump electors on the theories of fraud?

>> He did not say it in those exact words, but he did say that he -- that Arizona law, according to what he understood, that would be allowed and we needed to come into session to take care of that.

That what is what I can legally and no legally do and I cannot go into Arizona legally or on my sole prerogative.

Did anyone affect the outcome of that?

>> No one provided me evidence.

>> The select committee provided evidence that it's not the protests at state capitols across the country.

There wered individuals with ties to the groups or parties involved in the January 6th January 6th attack on the U.S. capitol.

And one of those took place in the house of representative's building, as you can see in this footage.

This is previously undisclosed video of protesters entering and refusing to leave the building.

One of the individuals permanently shown in this video is Jay Jacob Chansley, the "QAnon" was photographed leaving a threatening note in the U.S. senate chamber and ultimately sentenced to 41 months in prison as pleading guilty of obstruction to an official proceeding and other protesters who occupied the Arizona house of representative's building included proud boys, while men armed with rifles stood outside the entrance.

They were calling for you by name, speaker Bowers, is that correct?

>> That is correct.

>> Did the president call you again later in December?

>> He did, sir.

>> And did you tell the president in that second call that you supported him, that you voted for him, but that you were not going do anything illegal for him?

>> I did, sir.

>> And nevertheless, his lawyer, John leastman, called you on June 4, 2021, and he did have a specific ask to do you what you had already told the president you would not do, something that would violate your oath, is that correct?

>> That's correct.

It wasn't just me, my counsel and others on the call.

>> And what did you Dr. Eastman want you to do?

>> That we would, in fact, vote, take a vote, to overthrow -- I shouldn't say overthrow.

That we would decertify the electors and we had plenary authority to do so and he cited article two, section one, I think clause two and said that in his opinion, that gave us the authority if there was -- I don't recall him saying sufficient evidence, but there was some call or some strong reason to do so that we -- or justification to do so that we could do that.

And that he was asking that we -- his suggestion was that we go it.

I said, again, I took an oath, for me to take that to do what you do would be counter to my ox oath and I don't recall if we talked more about the oath.

But I said, what would you have me do?

And he said, just do it and let the court sort it out.

And I said, you're asking me to do something that has never been done in history, the history of the United States and I'm going to put my state through that without sufficient proof?

And that's going to be good enough with me, that I would put us through that, my state?

That I swore to uphold both in constitution and in law?

No, sir.

He said, well, my suggestion would be just do it and let the courts figure it all out.

And I didn't use that exact phrase, but that is what his meaning was and I declined and I believe that was close to the end of our phone call.

>> Again, this took place after you had recently spoken with President Trump and told him that you wouldn't do anything illegal for him.

Is that right?

>> It wasn't days after -- obviously it was days after and a few dayses had gone by.

>> You told President Trump you wouldn't do anything illegal for him.

I did, both times.

>> You told Dr. Eastman there was not legal support to justify and he still wanted you to do it and let the courts work it out.

>> I had been warned, but I do remember him saying that the authority of the legislature was plenary and that you can do it.

I said, then you should know that I can't even call the legislature into session without a two-thirds majority vote.

We're only 30 plus one and there's no way that can happen.

>> But in your view, what he was asking you do would have violated your vote to the United States' constitution and the constitution to the state of Arizona?

>> Yes, sir.

>> Did you receive a call from U.S. representative Andy Biggs of as on the morning of January 6th?

>> Di.

>> I did.

>> What did Mr. Biggs ask you to do?

>> I believe that's that's to declare the session of the electors and asked if I would sign on both to a letter that had been sent from my state and/or that I would support the decertification of the electors and I said I would not.

>> Mr. speaker, on December 4th, 2020, you released a statement calls for the legislation to overturn the 2020 election results and the statement is straightforward in the breathtaking request, unquote, made by representatives of President Trump and, quote, the Arizona legislation overturn the certify results and deliver the results to President Trump, unquote.

Why did you believe as you wrote in this state that the rule of law forbid you from doing what President Trump and his allies wanted you to do?

>> Representative, I'm sorry, I should be saying Mr. chairman, Mrs. two sides to the answer and one is, what am I allowed to do and what am I forbidden to do?

We have no legal pathway both in state law, nor to my knowledge in federal law to execute such a request.

And I am not allowed to walk or act beyond my authority if I'm not authorized as a legislature, then I cannot act.

to the point of calling us into session.

Some say that just a few legislators have plenary authority and this is part of all of this discussion, I'll call it.

So to not have authority and to be forbidden to act beyond my authority on both counts, I'm not authorized to take such action and that would deny my oath.

>> In your statement, you included excerpts from president Ronald Reagan's, that the transfers of authority is called for and takes place as it has for almost two centuries and few of us stop to think how unique we really are.

In the eyes of many in the world, this every four-year ceremony, we accept is nothing less than a miracle.

Tell us, if you would, Mr. speaker, why did you include Mr. Reagan's words in your public statement?

>> Mr. chairman, representative Schif, because I have a lot of admiration for Ronald Reagan.

I had the opportunity of going through his home with one other person and walking through and and I have a lot of admiration for him.

When he pointed out -- I have lived in other countryings countries for a period of time and have visited a few countries and during election times and the fact that we allow an election, support an election and stand behind election and even if the past when there have been serious questions about the election and then move on without disturbance and with acceptance, that we choose, we choose to follow the outcome of the will of the people, that will -- it means a lot to me and I know it means a lot to him and so we included that.

>> Were you aware fake electors meant in phoenix on December 15th to cast vote for President Trump?

>> I was not.

>> When you learned that these electors had met and September their electoral votes to Washington, what did you think?

>> Well, I thought of the book, the game that couldn't shoot straight and I thought this is a tragic parody.

>> As you flew from phoenix to Washington yesterday, you reflected upon passages from a personal journal in 2020 while all of this was taking place and with your permission, I'm wondering if you would share one passage in particular with us?

>> Thank you very much.

It is painful to have friendses friends who have been such a help to me turn on me with such ranker I may in the.

I may not act in accordance to their visions and I don't take this in a fearful manner or a vengeful manner.

I do not want to be a winner by cheating.

I will not play with laws I swore allegiance to.

With any contrived desire towards deflection of my deep foundational desire to follow God's will as I believe he lead my conscious to embrace.

How else will I ever approach him in the wilderness of life knowing that I ask of this guidance only to show myself a coward in defending the course he let me lead me to take?

>> Mr. speaker, those are powerful words.

I understand the taking the courageous position that you did following the 2020 election in defense of the rule law and protecting the voters of Arizona, resulted in you and your family subjected to protest and terrible threats.

Can you tell us how this impacted you and your family?

>> Well, as others in the videos have mentioned, we received, my secretaries would say in excess of 20,000 Emails and tens of thousands of voicemails and texts which saturated our office offices and we were unable to work or communicate, but at home, up until even recently, it is a pattern in our lives to worry what will happen on Saturdays because we have various groups come by and they have had video, panel trucks with videos of me proclaiming me to be a pedophile and a corrupt politician and blaring loud speakers in my neighborhood and leaving literature both on my property and arguing and threatening with neighbors and with myself.

And I don't know if I should name groups, but there was one gentleman that had three bars on his chest.

He had a pistol and was threatening my neighbor, not with the pistol but just vocally.

And when I saw the gun, I knew I had to get close.

And at the same time, on some of these, we had a daughter who was gravely ill, who was upset by what was happening outside and my wife who is a Valiant person, very strong, quiet, very strong woman.

So it was disturbing.

It was disturbing.

>> Mr. speaker, I want to thank you for your service to the state of Arizona and to the country.

>> Arizona house speaker Rusty Bowers.

Thank you for joining us and you have a great evening.