Northwest now is supported in part by viewers like you.

Thank you.

what could possibly be wrong with picking up tons of trash in Seattle?

Well, when it comes to the Seattle group, it's plenty controversial because they're actually accomplishing something.

And some claim they're stepping on the toes of what some call the homeless industrial complex when government funding is on the line.

The rhetoric and the turf wars get intense, and there's no exception when it comes to We Heart Seattle.

That's the discussion next on northwest.

Now You.

We heart Seattle claims that has cleaned up 31 parks, 20 landmarks, and collected a combined 1.1 million pounds of trash in all of Seattle zip codes.

Not only that, they claim they've assisted 202 people get off the streets documentation that really can't be any more easily evaluated when considering government and sub contractor efforts.

So what's not to, well, heart?

Well, for one thing, this is a grassroots, community based organization of volunteers.

Meaning they're taking the problem into their own hands and no level of government or their paid contractors like that at all on any issue we heart.

Seattle also tends to document the authorized service providers failures finding a dead body, for instance, under the Aurora Bridge in January, picking up more than 25,000 hypodermic needles and proving to lawmakers that there is a substantial group of people in Seattle who don't think leaving drug addicts abandoned on the city's mean streets qualifies as either kindness or compassion.

As for other complaints, well, many are found on an anonymous website and a Facebook page called We Heart Seattle.

Exposed posts complain that the group violates the rights of the homeless, confiscates property and provides support services with no training or academic credentials.

Northwest now Steve Kitchens joins us now with more.

here.

He went to Stanford.

Yay!

Volunteers gather for a quick photo and a short break from pulling debris from Seattle's Saint Mark's Greenbelt along Lake View Boulevard in early May.

We bought all of these supplies from Home Depot.

These are all volunteers, we heard.

Seattle's executive director, Andrea Suarez, keeps a nimble step on the steep trail leading where camp found shelter for who knows how long.

This is garbage.

This isn't.

There's nothing humane about moldy, rodent infested, human feces infested, dirty beds.

This is just one of more than 300 cleanups under the organization's belt.

We heard Seattle operates outside of the King County Regional Homelessness Authority, and the city of Seattle in response to the crisis.

Suarez says avoiding that bureaucracy allows her group to house neighbors more quickly, a point she hopes resonates when volunteers and others cast their vote.

We need you to come outside and see what's working and what's not, so we can be better informed when it comes to the ballot box.

More accurately described them as a private encampment removal group.

Alisa Ramirez is a community organizer and shares close relationships with people living unhoused.

She criticizes some of we heard Seattle's tactics during outreach and handling an individual's property, among other complaints.

But she says there's still enough blame to share.

And it's not strictly just we heard Seattle.

the city as well.

for a long time, hasn't addressed the issue.

And part of that just seems a lack of political will.

The number of those living on the street and public dollars spent to help have both grown over the years.

Suarez champions.

We heard Seattle's progress saying it spent barely $600,000 in 2023.

Seattle Mayor Bruce Harrell's one Seattle Homelessness Action Plan budgets more than $160 million for 2024 alone.

Nothing seems to make a significant dent.

Well, I'll tell you what's making a significant dent is private funded organizations like We Hurt Seattle that are taking action to clean our city, help the homeless, housing affordability, addiction, and many other factors intertwined the homelessness crisis.

And also talking candidly with and about those facing the crisis.

Headlong must begin conversations from the.

We have to push our leaders.

But the other part of that is we also have to change ourselves in our community.

How we're talking and viewing about these folks, because otherwise you can't do one without the other in Seattle.

Steve Givens, northwest now.

Joining us now are we heard Seattle founder Andrea Suarez and program director Timothy Emerson.

Welcome, both of you to northwest.

Now, Andrea and Tim, great to do a program about this topic.

I've been wanting to have you on for quite a while.

And the funny thing is, Andrea, social media says I should introduce you as Karen.

Oh, are you aware of that being a Karen?

Okay, maybe.

But did Karen go around and pick up 35,000 needles?

Because I don't think that's the definition of a Karen that somebody actually gets positive action in their community.

I figure you've heard all that before, and it just kind of gave me a chuckle a little bit.

Let's do start, however, with some bio.

how did you where did you grow up?

Where do you come from and how did you get into this?

Well, right here from the Pacific Northwest, from, you know, been in the region for half my life and been in King County since 20 or in 1997.

I actually, I lived in Maple Valley at one point.

And, but really, the origin story for me was September 14th of 2020, was walking downtown and broke down, the beautiful city that I once, believed to live in and fight for was in deep despair, decay.

You know, bodies were everywhere and needles were everywhere.

Garbage was everywhere.

And I think that's where people got the Karen I was I sounded the alarm.

There's needles everywhere.

What's going on?

And, the next day started what's now a three and a half year movement called We Heart Seattle.

but I'm your girl next door.

I have a day job, as a sales executive for global logistics company.

I'm a firm mom.

I used to be a foodie.

I used to travel a lot pre-pandemic, but the, silver lining of the the pandemic for me was founding, we heart Seattle and meeting people like Tim and our army of volunteers that work together to bring our city back to a more beautiful and safe place for all to enjoy.

Tim, give us a little bit of your story.

how did you come up and how did you get involved in We Heart Seattle?

I was a former addict, from Tampa, Florida, actually, and, started with my recovery and went into commercial fishing, about 12 years ago and got connected to Ballard in the area and fell in love with Seattle.

And, as Covid came around, I met Andrew Suarez sitting in a park.

I was sitting there, on an off season, smoking a cigaret, actually, and she's like, hey, man, aren't you tired of all this garbage?

Aren't you tired of this?

Do you do want to help me do anything about it?

Like.

Well, yes.

Yes, why don't we?

And three years later, you know, we have used our skills to, to successfully house, you know, close to 300 people and a lot of that with permanent, permanent solutions like recovery through, you know, knowledge of my addiction.

Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, I spent a lot of time out there working with people, working to their addiction to talk about your mission a little bit.

It started with trash cleanup.

Has it always been was helping and actually doing at the assistance piece always part of your model going forward?

Did you say we're going to start with trash, that I'm going to actually get to placing people and working on solutions for people, or how did it morph into or or did it know you you found an opportunity, said, yeah, we're cleaning up the trash, but there's so much more to be done.

How what was the mindset on?

That's a great question.

And we my first step was where were on the day after downtown was, destroyed by demonstrations and writers around George Floyd's death and other social justice matters.

thousands of people came out the very next day and cleaned Seattle.

I mean, thousands of people downtown scrubbing, picking up glass, cleaning the graffiti.

Cop cars were still like on the streets, blown up.

It was really, really grim and sad.

And just the day before.

But then the day after, all of these people came out and a couple months later, I thought, what if we could inspire other 700,000 people to pick up a broom, to pick up a needle, to say something to somebody, including your city leaders?

And so that was the the lightning bolt that said, what if we rallied everybody around this crisis facing our city?

And I called all the different city agencies, SPR, parks, utilities, fire cops, my council, my mayor's office, and met with everybody and walked them all through downtown.

I was like, look, look, look, look, look.

And that all fell flat.

And then I was like, well, what is this?

It's garbage.

And so I went to Home Depot and got one box of construction bags and some pictures, and we had our very first litter pick and Denny Park in the fall of 2020.

And during those litter picks and those cleans, we naturally interacted with people living in the park.

They naturally interacted with us.

And that's when the trust in the magic of the grassroots movement began was on the ground at that park.

I want to ask you both this question.

I'll switch over to Tim.

you know, why so much pushback, do you think?

I don't think it's a broad based group.

I think it's a bunch of keyboard warriors.

to be honest with you.

who do you think they are, and why do they object so strongly to what you're doing?

Because there is this vocal minority out there that says, well, they're doing all these wrong things, but you listen to the story and look at the broad, I, I don't think it's a minority of people in Seattle who want it to be a better place.

Where do you think that pushback comes from, and why do you think it's happening?

I think we have fell victim to the homeless industrial complex.

I feel like we have found the means to an end and that there's a potential threat for people not being able to line their pockets anymore.

So you're making them look bad.

You think?

In my opinion, yeah.

Andrea.

What?

What's your feeling about why so much pushback from this vocal minority?

well, there was one, I guess the status quo, I think one very, very, I called my day of destiny at Miller Park.

in the first day of 2021, and I approached a group of, frankly, you know, homeless advocates.

And I was like, well, what are you guys doing here?

Grilling burgers on top of trash and rats and needles for an encampment that's surrounding a community center and soccer fields and playgrounds.

And they said, well, we're feeding, you know, the homeless that live here.

And I go, well, you're enabling people to stay here when we should be finding them solutions that are more long term and more sustainable than a park that's intended for all to enjoy.

And, that was kind of the beginning of my end with the social service industry was there's a new character on the stage that's calling us a bunch of enablers.

And after having spent $1 billion.

Yeah.

And I just like services.

We get services, we get services, and, you know, demand, you know, like that supply is actually creating the demand.

You know, we're now free at all.

And we've have people that are living in tents that are being brought hamburgers and food and clothes and Narcan and needles and foil now, and not any information on how to reach independence and that's the ideology.

at play, that we don't even know what that word was.

I'm like, what are you talking about?

I'm an enabler.

Well, if I'm an enabler or if, you know, if you're an enabler and, I'm over here just trying to give people a hand up.

That was.

That was kind of the rub is we weren't talking language.

We weren't saying housing first.

We weren't saying things like leave, you know, meet people where they're at and just give them basic needs and harm reduction.

I didn't know about permanent supportive housing.

Yeah.

And I mean, we've been in all of that for permanent supportive housing throughout the years now.

And, I mean, should permanence be the goal?

I mean, you're forever dependent.

You're forever you're never going to under the permanent model.

It seems to imply to me that a person is never going to progress out of homelessness.

Homelessness.

That's right.

It's there's never a step towards reaching independence.

You don't hear the word independence or self-sufficiency.

Those were naughty words.

I mean, we were like, we don't know.

Those are naughty words.

And so we were the outcasts.

We were using different language.

We were saying, we have tried to get this person connected to housing.

We've had people into housing, tiny houses, hotels, apartments.

I've had a woman even live in my house for a while.

And she's still in a tent in Ballard.

She does not and cannot be indoors.

She has mental illness and she has an, you know, untreated disabilities of all kinds that compassionate in any way.

Tim, do you think leaving people out and and saying, listen, we shouldn't step on toes.

Let's be compassionate.

And yet the compassion has them ending up in a tent, being victimized by by others.

where does the compassion piece really fit in, in your mind?

Yeah, that's not compassionate at all.

I think that the support is the key to this.

The community support, people coming in and walking people through the situations, people going through the mental health, disability and addiction, either cannot or will not do this on their own.

They can't go to the appointments, they can't make the appointments.

and there's a lot missed.

I think that it's just throwing them into apartments and tents is just a quick Band-Aid fix for the moment.

So the public doesn't have to really pay attention to what's going on.

They don't see what's going on.

But the problem is there, and there's just not enough people to go around to, to, to help these guys and save their lives.

So the broader philosophical question then is drug vagrancy and all that comes with it, a valid lifestyle choice?

Is that a valid lifestyle choice?

Andrea.

They're definitely choosing the lifestyle.

There's definitely a choice there.

And I was just talking to, Callie and law enforcement on the way down here, and I'm just like, we have to mandate and create consequence for people to graduate from a pre contemplative stage of change to one where there might be consequence.

So I might want to think about where I'm at in my cycle of addiction.

And unless there's consequence not being able to see your kids potentially facing a divorce or separation, losing your job or spending time in jail, I mean, raise your hand if you can give up salty snacks for three days, you know, or get to the gym three days a week or get your steps.

It's hard.

It's really, really hard.

And then to take somebody who's on some mixture of methamphetamines and fentanyl now 50,000 whatever times 50 times stronger than heroin, deeply addicted, very deeply addicted.

you know, it's indoors.

I'm seeing people, statistically die at a, faster.

I think the statistics show, higher indoor rate than outdoor right now.

And, we've been inside those permanent supportive housing, and they're nothing but squalid, terrible and inhabitable conditions indoors as much as they were outdoors.

In fact, I've seen people go downhill indoors.

And that's the curtain that we're pulling back and exposing and using social media and our platform to tell that truth.

And that is part of the opposition, is why can't I go inside those housing projects?

Why can't I sit at the outreach meeting?

Why are you excluding me from the conversation?

And I'm talking to the other providers.

It's because they don't want that out there, that behind closed doors it is tragedy.

Andrea, you mentioned the language being used.

So, Tim, I want to run a couple of these buzzwords by you.

Thoughts on Housing First and low barrier housing productive, counterproductive, low barrier housing in my opinion, is counterproductive.

I have dealt with several of these low barrier, homes, and I've been into these apartments and I've worked with clients coming in and hear this out of these places.

many people are going in and coming out far worse off than they did going in.

we're finding clients dying in the rooms.

overdoses, dealers living inside, harm reduction being passed out within the building.

And the harm reduction is able to reach the dealer.

Dealer could harm.

I loved the harm reduction and sell it within the building.

And it is extremely counterproductive.

I want to give you a chance, Andrea, to address some criticisms.

I'm sure you've heard all these.

You're untrained with no academic credentials.

You infringe upon homeless rights, you confiscate property.

That is what the homeless industrial complex is saying in terms of push back against you.

How do you answer critics when they hit you with those?

Well, that is a lot of old criticism.

I feel like we've certainly sailed far and beyond.

those old rumors, that started three and a half years ago.

We've proven ourselves in the community.

We are now getting shout outs by City council and other, civic leaders that we're a force to be reckoned with.

That the private component of We Hurt Seattle in collaboration with the public agencies, is actually a great gap fill.

you know, Bill gates dropped out of Harvard and started Microsoft.

I don't think anybody's asking him whether or not he needed a piece of paper to, you know, make an impact in our world.

And I think that's just what we're trying to do, is little daily differences are helping Seattle move the needle needle in a little bit more positive direction.

as far as confiscating property, I mean, this is just ridiculous.

Tabloid hearsay, or anonymous website hearsay.

I mean, it's just ridiculous.

It's like it's worse than a tabloid because at least the tabloid tells you who the author is, right?

I mean, we don't even know who the author is.

And so that website is actually harming the community that we're actually all trying to, I think, help and support, we've had folks living in greenbelts here that are can see here in these photos.

And like we saw that website and it sure just seemed like somebody was mad at you in junior high.

We we think you guys are doing great work and good on you for being private funded.

We're not using taxpayer dollars, and I'm just offering another solution in the community, to address some of the crisis facing, people, businesses and the certainly the environment.

Tim, what's your what's your take on who is criticizing you?

Who do you think the folks are who don't want to see cleanups or don't want to see people assisted out of drug vagrancy?

What's the profile of that person?

I really think it's, again, it's a money thing.

I think that people in the harm reduction, in running the harm reduction model, they don't want this problem to be solved.

They want to continuously get the funding to pass out the needles, the bubbles in the foils, and in as long as we're doing that, we're never going to find an end to the problem.

We're not going to do it.

So they're they're incentivized to perpetuate the problem is what I hear you say, that that would be my opinion.

Yes.

Yeah.

Andrea, some broader thoughts here on the city of Seattle.

Mayor Harrell's coming into office, new city attorney, kind of a reworked city council here.

Pendulum maybe swinging a little bit.

what are your thoughts about the political situation in Seattle now?

Do you feel like the airplane here could start to pull up?

Do you feel like the airplane is still in a dive?

Talk to me a little bit.

I think that the airplane is starting to to to take off in a very positive direction.

people are starting to work together.

you have more alignment.

on the dais at City Hall.

I think we're either there or close to there in signing, a contract for our, our Seattle police Department, which is huge in restoring public safety, kind of countering this past permissive ecosystem where people from all over the region were coming to Seattle for its no rules playground reputation.

you know, we were down several hundred officers.

so I think seeing that there's positive direction, gives me hope.

there's not as many encampments anymore.

I would like to see more of the open air drug scenes, broken up.

there's one right behind City Hall right now.

Actually, we drove right by it on the way down where they're selling fentanyl, right?

Visibly.

It's a big fentanyl distribution mall.

I don't know why that is still here.

Like what stops our local government and our law enforcement from, breaking that up?

That's a part of the problem.

So, the affordable housing project, King County Regional Homeless Authority, some of those large regional efforts, are stalling and some, I think, look like they're ready to roll over and head into failure.

Tim, start with you.

Why are they failing?

Because it seems like a good idea at first.

Let's gather our resources, get some good administration in there, get a plan going and fix it.

not working.

Why?

That's a tough question.

I volunteered with them this past year, doing a point in time count.

again, I get the vibes that it was definitely about money and paying some higher ups to run the organization.

and get that going.

I personally seen some of, the operations, working, and a lot of it is really deceiving in terms of making it look like something happened and it doesn't and nothing's really happening.

Or maybe sometimes you're counting more people than you necessarily should be counting.

Yeah.

A person inside a shelter household, even if it's low barrier is housing.

It's not homeless.

And it's just there's a beating.

The numbers, in my opinion, to try to get even more funding.

Yeah.

You know, Andrea, what are your thoughts on King County regional homelessness?

authority Mark Jones is gone.

They're having a heck of a time trying to find somebody else who wants to come in and lead that lead.

That thing, is is a regional approach.

Is it too bureaucratic?

Does it need to be boots on the ground like you're doing, or.

No, if we could get organized and Berrien would be happy to step in and get some things, you know, some of these outlying cities that are having troubles.

What is your thought about that model in the future of a model like that?

Well, I think decentralization makes sense at face value.

I think the argument in cities that don't have homelessness to begin with are saying, why do we need to fund and support low barrier housing when we don't have homeless, you know, Bellevue, Redmond, Kirkland?

You know, if we spread out services, then people will distribute into different communities that aren't there today.

I don't think that it's a great plan.

they had a chance.

They were given $10 million in a program called We Are In.

All that money is gone in less than a couple of years.

It's now we are out.

Meanwhile, with no money, things like, you know, you don't need a $300,000 CEO to go find a battery.

Total budget, like a half a million bucks a year.

Just like, yeah, you know, it's about approach and breaking through the bureaucracy and red tape and looking at each individual on a case by case basis to find out what that person's need would need is do smaller, think bigger.

You know, these are little individual nuance solutions for a individual to get them off the streets.

We love the Homeward Bound program, you know, where's your family?

Where's your kids?

What's your leverage point.

And those conversations just don't seem to be being had by the current approach, which is just housing first.

This is capitalism.

This is systemic poverty, systemic racism.

It's victimhood ideology.

It's all of these theories and no practice.

And we're out there, boots on the ground going, this person just needs a battery for their van.

Last 60s here.

optimistic Tim or pessimistic about the future of this problem.

Do you see this getting better someday, or do you think we're stuck in this mode for a while?

I think that we see a means to an end somewhere.

I see things getting better.

little by little.

Yeah.

last 30s here.

Andrea, give me your take on positive, optimistic.

Pessimistic.

And also, how can people get involved with you?

Well, community response for the win.

Volunteer.

Get involved with the movement like we hurt Seattle or a local charity or, nonprofit that's in your mind, doing the right thing.

Not enabling, but empowering and giving a hand up, not handouts.

So think of it that way.

Incremental, smaller solutions like Tim said, things like sanctioned camps, safe lots, RV lots, connecting people to treatment rather than connecting them to another piece of foil.

We need to get people off drugs.

We need to get people sober and reach independence versus subsidizing addiction in perpetuity for permanent housing.

Last ten how the folks get involved, how they find.

weheart-seattle.org.

Check out our calendar.

Get involved with a litter pick time talent or treasure?

you can find us there and on Facebook and on X.

Great conversation.

Thanks so much, both of you for coming to northwest now.

Thank you.

Tom.

Now, I want to clearly label my opinions here in this last segment.

The homeless crisis in western Washington may very well represent one of the greatest failures of state and local governance in the history of this region.

I'd put it right up there with the failure of transportation planning and the legal destruction of the area's natural environment.

The bottom line.

Don't take my word for it.

Look at the results and try to find a unified and provably valid data set that proves success.

It doesn't exist.

We heard Seattle, meanwhile, doesn't think that a fentanyl fueled free for all is the way to solve the homeless problem.

It's up to you to tune out the do nothing nonprofits, the Housing First dreamers, and the harm reduction focused enablers and trust your eyes and nose to understand that it's not working.

Maybe we heard Seattle can be the start of something kinder and more successful.

I hope this program got you thinking and talking.

You can find this program on the web at kbtc.org.

Stream it through the PBS app or listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

That's going to do it for this edition of northwest.

Now until next time, I'm Tom Layson.

Thanks for watching.