>> BONNIE: THIS WEEK ONTO THE CONTRARY, FIRST, THE THIRD WOMEN'S MARCH GOES ON AMIST CONTROVERSY AND IN-FIGHTING.

WILL THIS YEAR'S MARCH HAVE AS MUCH IMPACT?

BEHIND THE HEADLINES, MILLIONS OF AMERICANS ARE FORCED OUT OF WORK AND INTO EARLY RETIREMENT BY AN INSIDIOUS BIAS, AGEISM.

>> BONNIE: HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY, A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, THE WOMEN'S MARCH.

DESPITE CONTROVERSY AND NEGATIVE MEDIA COVERAGE THE MARCH WILL GO ON.

IT HAS BEEN NEARLY TWO YEARS SINCE MORE THAN 4 MILLION WOMEN AND MEN DESCENDED ON WASHINGTON FOR THE HISTORIC WOMEN'S MARCH THE DAY AFTER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S INAUGURATION.

THERE WERE ALSO LARGE MARCHES IN CITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THIS YEAR SOME HUNDREDS OF ORGANIZATIONS REPRESENTING WOMEN OF ALL RELIGIONS, ETHNICITIES AND BACKGROUNDS ARE JOINING TOGETHER TO FIGHT FOR EQUALITY.

>> RACHEL: THOUSANDS OF WOMEN RAN, A HISTORIC NUMBER OF WOMEN WERE ELECTED, AND THERE WERE MANY WOMEN WHO SAID THE REASON THAT THEY WERE VOTING, THE REASON THAT THEY WERE RUNNING, THE REASON THAT THEY WERE GETTING INVOLVED, WAS BECAUSE OF WOMEN'S MARCH.

AND I THINK THAT WE ARE JUST ONE OF -- AN ECOSYSTEM OF MOVEMENTS WHERE WE'RE WORKING ON WOMEN'S RIGHTS BUT I DO THINK THAT WOMEN'S MARCH HAS SHAPED AND EXPANDED THE POLITICAL IMAGINATION OF WOMEN.

>> BONNIE: THE WASHINGTON, D.C. MARCH IS EXPECTED TO DRAW LARGE CROWDS BUT NOT AS BIG AS 2017.

HUNDREDS OF SISTER MARCHES WILL TAKE PLACE BUT MANY OF THE SMALLER MARCHES HAVE BEEN CANCELLED INCLUDING ONES IN CHICAGO, NEW ORLEANS AND IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA.

AT ISSUE, FIRST, THREE OF THE NATIONAL GROUP'S CHAIRS ARE ACCUSED OF ANTI-SEMITISM, SECOND, WOMEN OF COLOR QUESTION WHY THE MARCH IS "OVERWHELMINGLY WHITE" AND THIRD, A TWEET CRITICIZING WHITE WOMEN FOR NOT VOTING THE WAY THE GROUP WANTED THEM TO VOTE.

BUT LOCAL AND NATIONAL ORGANIZERS ARE URGING WOMEN AND MEN TO COME OUT.

>> RACHEL: IT IS PAINFUL AND PROBLEMATIC THINGS SAID TO ME AND TO MY MIND THE CHOICE IS TO REMAIN AT THE TABLE ANYWAY.

>> BONNIE: THE CLEVELAND MARCH HAS INVITED MEMBERS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL ON JEWISH WOMEN TO SPEAK AND THE NEW YORK CITY MARCH PLANS TO HIGHLIGHT THE LEADERSHIP OF WOMEN OF COLOR.

IMMIGRANT WOMEN AND GENDER NONCONFORMING PEOPLE.

SO DONNA EDWARDS IS THE WOMEN'S COALITION FALLING APART?

>> >> DONNA: NO.

IT IS NOT FOLLOWING APART.

I THINK NERVELETLY WHEN YOU HAVE THESE REALLY ORGANIC MOVEMENTS THAT HAVE DEVELOPED THAT THEY HAVE A FLAT LEADERSHIP STRUCTURE AND THAT IS BOTH GOOD AND IT'S BAD AND I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SEEING HERE IS REALLY WHAT IS AT STAKE IS WOMEN HAVE A BUNCH OF OPINIONS INCLUDING THE WOMEN MARCH.

>> MARCHS CAN BE EFFECTIVE PUBLIC OPINION TOOL BUT THE WOMEN'S MARCH AND UNITY PRINCIPLES THEY NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE LOTS OF DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS OUT THERE AND HOPEFULLY THERE IS MORE INCLUSIVE.

>> THE MARCH THAT MATTERED WAS THE ONE THAT WE SAW OF WOMEN MARCHES TO VOTE IN NOVEMBER RENDERING THE MOST GENDER EQUAL CONGRESS WE'VE EVER SEEN.

>> I THINK THE 2017 MARCH WAS THE START OF SOMETHING AND I SUSPECT IT CONTINUES GOING ARE FORWARD REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE MARCH HAPPENS EVERY YEAR.

>> WHAT ABOUT FOR EXAMPLE THIS WEEK ASHLEY JUDD'S PART OF ASHLEY JUDD'S LAWSUIT AGAINST HAIRY WEINSTEIN WAS HARVEY WEINSTEIN RATHER WAS THROWN OUT.

IS THIS A SIGNAL THAT THE ME TOO MOVEMENT SO CLOSELY TIDE TO THE MARCH IS LOSING STEAM?

>> ANATOMICAL, I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR CASE.

I DON'T THINK ALL OF THIS IS LOSING STEAM.

I THINK THERE WAS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF ATTENTION GIVEN TO IT OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS.

SO WE MAY JUST NEED TO -- THERE MAY BE A PAUSE AND THEN WE'LL SEE MORE HAPPEN.

I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO THE MARCH THOUGH AND WHAT IT REPRESENTS, WHAT IS INTERESTING TO ME THERE ARE A LOT OF PRINCIPLES ON THEIR WEBSITE IF YOU TAKE A CLOSE LOOK THAT A LOT OF WOMEN WOULD AGREE WITH.

I THINK IT IS INTERESTING FOR INSTANCE THAT THEY PUT CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM AT THE VERY TOP.

THAT IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT I'M VERY INTERESTED IN AND I THINK THAT LOTS OF PEOPLE SHOULD BE -- SHOULD HAVE LEARNING ABOUT IT, READING MORE ABOUT IT AND I THINK THE CHALLENGES COME WHEN THEY ASSUME THAT EVERYONE AGREES ON THE SOLUTION OF SOME OF THE ISSUES AND THEY TALK ABOUT THE PROBLEM OF PAID LEAVE.

THEY TALK ABOUT THE PROBLEM OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE.

I AGREE WITH THOSE PROBLEMS.

I DON'T FEEL NECESSARILY WELCOME AT THE TABLE TO HAVE A CONVERSATION AND THAT IS WHERE THERE COULD BE HUGE IMPROVEMENTS MADE.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I ASKED HER I ASKED RACHEL CARMEN & WHEN WE DID THE INTERVIEW THAT WOMEN WHO WERE SO-CALLED PRO-LIFE ANTI-ABORTION, WHATEVER TERM YOU USE, ARE -- SOME OF THEM HAVE COMPLAINED SAYING THEY FEEL LEFT OUT P SHE SAID WELL WE ARE A PRO-CHOICE MOVEMENT.

SO, YOU KNOW, SHE SAID WE WELCOME IF THEY WANT TO SHOW UP AND MARCH WE WELCOME THEM.

BUT DO YOU THINK YOUR SIDE HAS BEEN A LITTLE -- SEEMS LIKE COMPLAINING TO ME RATHER THAN FOR THE POINT OF COMPLAINING AS OPPOSED TO WOULD -- WOULD SOMEBODY GO TO THE NRA AND SAY I'M ANTI-GUN SO WHY WHY WON'T YOU LET ME BECOME A MEMBER.

>> MIGHT FEEL DIFFERENTLY I THINK WHAT I HEAR FROM COLLEAGUES IS IF YOU SUGGEST THAT YOU REPRESENT ALL WOMEN AND THEN YOU DO NEED TO INCLUDE ALL WOMEN -- >> WHO SAYS ALL WOMEN?

>> THE IDEA THOUGH HOWEVER I THINK IS -- >> IT IS PRETTY OBVIOUS THEIR IDEAS -- >> PROGRESSIVE WOMEN.

>> YEAH BUT I DON'T THINK THAT IS ALWAYS -- >> I GUESS THE THING IS IT IS NOT CALLED THE PROGRESSIVE WOMEN'S MARCH.

THAT IS HOW I VIEWED IT WHEN I HEARD A WOMAN I THOUGHT IT MEANT ME, TOO.

MAYBE WE'RE NOT #ME22 RIGHT NOW.

I THINK IT IS SOMEWHAT CONTRARY YOU SEE SOME OF SPLINTER MOVEMENTS AND A MARCH IN NEW YORK OR CALIFORNIA OR ATLANTA YOU'RE SEEING AFGHAN AMERICAN WOMEN HAVE THEIR OWN SORT OF MOVEMENT.

YOU SEE REPUBLICAN WOMEN ACKNOWLEDGE THERE IS A MARCH FOR LIFE A PRO-LIFE THAT CONTINUES ON.

I THINK THAT IS ALL POSITIVE.

I THINK THE WOMEN'S MARCH STARTS SOMETHING AND WE SAW SOME OF THAT WITH THE MIDTERM ELECTION IN NOVEMBER.

I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HAVE THAT MOVEMENT BE MORE AGGRESSIVE ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

UNFORTUNATELY IT WAS NOT.

IN THE ABSENCE OF THAT I THINK THAT YOU'RE SEEING IT IS OKAY FOR US TO HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF WOMEN'S GROUPS GATHERING TOGETHER FOR THE SAME COMMON GOAL.

>> I THINK IN IS A VENN DIAGRAM SOME OF THE GROUPS YOU DESCRIBED WILL HAVE GREAT COMMON GROUND THAT.

COMMON GROUND WILL MOVE FORWARD.

LOOKING AT VIRGINIA RIGHT NOW, COULD BECOME THE 38 STATE TO RATIFY AN EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT.

I THINK THERE IS UNANIMITY AMONG ALL THOSE GROUPS AROUND YES WE SHOULD HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS IN A DEMOCRACY.

>> BUT IS THERE -- IS THE WOMEN 'S MARCH FALLING PREY IN SOME SHAPE, WAY OR FORM IT IS A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH A 200 + SYSTEM MARCHES AROUND THE COUNTRY AND A LOT OF WHAT RACHEL CAR MONA SAID MAYBE IT WOULD HAPPEN BUT NOT EVERYBODY IS COMING FROM OHIO, CALIFORNIA ALL WAIT TO WASHINGTON BUT THEY WILL PARTICIPATE IN MORE LOCAL MARCHES.

BUT BY THE SAME TOKEN WITH ALL THIS -- WITH NOT REALLY DOING ANYTHING IN RESPONSE TO COMPLAINTS OF ANTISEMITISM THE THREE WOMEN WHO WERE ACCUSED ARE STILL ON THE NATIONAL BOARD SHOULD THEY HAVE BEEN THROWN OFF.

NOBODY IS STOPPING WOMEN OF COLOR FROM SHOWING UP.

SHOULD THEY NOT SHOW UP SHOULD WE BE CREDIT ADVERTISED FOR -- >> ARE WE GETTING INTO FAR -- >> I DO THINK THAT ONE OF THE CHALLENGES HAS ALWAYS BEEN A CHALLENGE FRANKLY OF THE BROADER WOMEN'S MOVEMENT IS TO MAKE IT A MORE INCLUSIVE MOVEMENT.

SO THAT WOMEN -- WOMEN OF COLOR FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE A VOICE AT THE TABLE AT THE LEADERSHIP TABLE AT THE DECISION-MAKING TABLE.

NOT JUST LIKE SHOWING UP TO A MARCH.

BUT WITH MARCHES I THINK FIT IS ALWAYS TOUGH TO HAVE A DO OVER OF SOMETHING THAT WAS SO WILDLY SUCCESSFUL AND SO MAYBE THAT SHOULD NOT BE THE EXPECTATION BUT THAT YOU CARRY ON THE WORK.

WHETHER YOU'RE CARRYING IT ON AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL OR IN YOUR STATE AND LOCAL COMMUNITIES.

>> I WAS AT THE DEMONSTRATION AT THE SUPREME COURT AND IT WAS VERY, VERY DIVERSE AND SO YOU KNOW TO -- TO MAKE A GENERALIZATION ABOUT ONE OR TWO LARGE PROTESTS, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY DOESN'T TAKE THE BIG PICTURE IN.

I ALSO THINK IN 2016 THERE WAS AN IMPERATIVE TO SHOW UP IN WASHINGTON.

AND NOW THAT IT IS -- >> WHAT DO YOU MEAN AN IMPERATIVE?

>> WELL, WE JUST HAD THE INAUGURATION OF A PRESIDENT THAT WAS PERCEIVED BY A LOT OF WOMEN TO BE VERY ANTI-WOMEN AND I THINK THEY WANTED TO COME TO WASHINGTON AND SHOW THEIR FEELINGS ABOUT THAT.

AND THE FACT THAT THEY HAD MISSED THE OPPORTUNITY OF HAVING A WOMAN PRESIDENT.

AND SO THERE WAS THAT IMPERATIVE TO COME TO WASHINGTON.

AND I THINK THAT THE ORGANIZERS ARE CORRECT THAT WE'LL SEE THE SAME PERHAPS NUMBERS BUT DIFFUSE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> BUT LET'S -- OBVIOUSLY THE WOMEN WHO TURNED OUT THERE WAS A LOT OF RAGE AGAINST PRESIDENT TRUMP, HIS TREATMENT OF WOMEN, APPOINTEES AND REVERSING ROE VS. WADE AND HIS ATTEMPTS TO ANYWAY ALL OF HIS POLICIES, THE GAG RULE, YOU NAME IT.

THAT'S STILL THERE.

SO SHOULDN'T THAT BE ENERGIZING WOMEN, WOULDN'T THAT STILL BE ENERGIZING THEM TO GO TO SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER LOOKING AT ALL THE SIGNAGE WHEN I WAS AT THE MARCH.

IT WAS LIKE ALL OVER THE MAP.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE GET A WHOLE BUNCH OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF REASONS.

THAT IS RIGHT.

SO I THINK IT IS INEVITABLE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO FIND GROUPS OF WOMEN THAT IDENTIFY ON A PARTICULAR ISSUE AND THEY'RE GOING TO GO FORWARD ON THEIR ISSUES BUT I DON'T THINK IT IS DEAD AND I THINK IT IS LIKE A LOT OF MOVEMENT ALWAYS STRUGGLING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE BEST LEADERSHIP STRUCTURE IS, WHO ARE THE BEST LEADERS, WHO ARE OUR BEST SPOKESPERSON AND WHAT IS OUR MESSAGE?

THAT IS NOT LIKE ANY OTHER MOVEMENT.

>> PART OF THE MARCH 2 AGAINST THE PRESIDENT AND CONCERN A LOT OF WOMEN HAD ON THE PROGRESSIVE SIDE OF THE LEDGER WAS TO REACT THAT THAT BY COMING TO WASHINGTON AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

THEY RAN FOR CONGRESS OR MANY OF THEM GOT -- MANY OF THEM GOT MOTIVATED THAT WAY TO YOUR POINT WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE MARCH.

MY ASSUMPTION WOULD BE THOSE WOMEN NOW HAVE TO PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS.

THEY'RE HERE.

IT IS TIME TO GOVERN AND GET DOWN TO THE BRASS TACKS OF OVERSIGHT ON THE ADMINISTRATION PUSHING BACK IF THAT WAS THE GOAL TO BEAT BACK SOME OF THE POLICY THAT WOMEN ARE CONCERNED ABOUT.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY NOW IS ALSO THE TIME IT IS TIME TO PUT DOWN THE SIGNS AND RHETORIC AND THINGS AND COME TO THE TABLE AND SAY OKAY IF WE ALL AGREE AT THIS TABLE WE NEED TO HAVE SOME FORM OF PAID LEAVE SUPPORT, WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENT POLICIES THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT AND CAN WE HAVE A COMPROMISE THAT WILL SATISFY EVERYBODY.

THAT IS -- THAT DOESN'T GRAB THE HEADLINES IN THE SAME WAY OR DOESN'T GRAB THE CAMERAS BUT IT IS GOING TO HAVE A LASTING IMPACT FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>> BUT DONNA YOU HAVE MENTIONED BEFORE THE SHOW ABOUT CONGRESS PASSING SOMETHING THAT -- THAT IF A MEMBER IS ACCUSED SUCCESSFULLY OF -- HAS TO GO TO COURT OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT OR ASSAULT, THAT HE MAINLY HE PAYS OUT OF HIS OWN POCKET OPPOSED TO TAXPAYER'S FUNDS.

THAT IS -- THAT IS BEGINNING OF THE POLICY CHANGES.

THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE PLACE, CORRECT?

>> IT IS.

I THINK THAT CONGRESS IS LEADING IN THAT RESPECT SAYING WE'RE GOING TO ACT ON WHAT WE PROMISE.

THAT IS KIND OF A FIRST MEASURE.

WHAT COMES NEXT IF YOU DON'T PUT DOWN THE SIGNS.

YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T PUT DOWN THE SIGNS BECAUSE YOU STILL NEED THE PUBLIC PRESSURE EVEN ON THESE NEWLY ELECTED MEMBERS TO MAKE SURE THAT WHAT YOU WANTED TO HAPPEN DOES HAPPEN.

THAT I THINK IS WHERE THE REAL CHANGE WILL COME.

>> WHAT OTHER CHANGES AND POLICY ARE WE GOING TO SEE?

BY THE WAY YOU SAID THE HOUSE PASSED THAT.

DID THE SENATE APPROVEIT AS WELL?

>> WELL, THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO IT THAT WAY.

EACH CHAMBER HAS TO PASS THEIR OWN RULES PACKAGE.

THE HOUSE PASSED ITS RULE PACKAGE AND THE SENATE PASSED ITS.

BUT THE POINT -- >> OR THE CHANGES -- THE AIM CHANGES IN THE SENATE PACKAGE?

>> YES.

THE POINT IS TAXPAYERS ARE NOT FOOTING THE BEAL FROM THE BAD BEHAVIOR OF MEMBERS OF CONGRESS.

THAT BECOMES A BELLWETHER FOR WHAT HAPPENS IN PRIVATE INDUSTRY FOR WHAT HAPPENS, YOU KNOW, THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY.

I THINK THAT THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL KEEP TABS ON IT.

LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE.

DISCRIMINATION TAKES ON MANY FORMS BUT ONE THAT IS NOT TALKED ABOUT MUCH PERMEATES OUR CULTURE.

THAT IS AGEISM.

NEW DATA SUPPORT WHAT MANY PEOPLE HAVE EXPERIENCED FIRSTHAND HOW AGE, BIAS, HURTS AMERICANS OF EVERY BACKGROUND.

AGEISM IS UNFORTUNATELY LIVE AND WELL IN THE US AMONG WORKERS OVER 50.

REPLICA AND URBAN INSTITUTE ANALYZED DATA COVERING SOME 20,000 PEOPLE FROM THE TIME THEY TURNED 50 THROUGH THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.

THEY FOUND 56% OF THOSE WORKERS ARE LAID OFF AT LEAST ONCE OR LEAVE JOBS UNDER SUCH FINANCIALLY DAMAGING CIRCUMSTANCES THAT IT'S LIKELY THEY WERE PUSHED OUT.

WHAT'S WORSE, THE STUDY FOUND ONLY ONE IN 10 OF THOSE WORKERS EVER EARNED AS MUCH AS THEY DID BEFORE THEIR EMPLOYMENT SETBACKS.

BOTTOM LINE WAS, 28% OF STABLE LONG TIME EMPLOYEES SUSTAIN AT LEAST ONE DAMAGING LAYOFF BY THEIR EMPLOYERS BETWEEN TURNING 50 AND LEAVING WORK FOR RETIREMENT.

ANOTHER 13% OF 50 PLUS WORKERS IN LONG-HELD POSITIONS UNEXPECTEDLY RETIRE UNDER CONDITIONS SUGGESTING THEY WERE FORCED OUT.

>> WHAT THIS RESEARCH REPORT REALLY PULLS OUT IS DATA AROUND WOMEN IN PARTICULAR, PEOPLE OF COLOR.

AND THE FACTOR THAT THIS IS A MAJOR PUBLIC POLICY ISSUE THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS AS A COUNTRY.

HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT OLDER ADULTS ARE ABLE TO REMAIN IN THE WORKPLACE AS LONG AS THEY NEED TO AND THAT IT'S A BENEFIT FOR EMPLOYERS AND THEY SHOULD BE SEEN AS A POTENTIAL POSITIVE CONTRIBUTION TO SOCIETY.

>> BONNIE: OTHER RESEARCH HAS SHOWN OLDER WOMEN ARE MORE FREQUENTLY TARGETS OF WORK-RELATED AGE DISCRIMINATION THAN MEN.

A 2015 STUDY SHOWED THAT OLDER WOMEN'S RESUMES WERE MUCH LESS LIKELY TO RECEIVE CALL BACKS THAN THOSE OF OLDER MEN OR YOUNG PEOPLE OF EITHER GENDER.

>> SABRINA: WHEN IT COMES TO YOUNG WOMEN AND WOMEN OF COLOR IT COMES TO AGING AND PARTICULARLY IF A MAN AND WOMAN ARE BOTH LAID OFF, WOMEN ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED NEGATIVELY BY THAT LAYOFF BECAUSE THEY PROBABLY HAVE LESS RESOURCES SAVED RATHER IN RETIREMENT PLAN, RATHER IN SAVINGS, WHETHER IN EQUITY IN A HOME BECAUSE THEY PROBABLY DEVELOPED WEALTH AT A SLOWER PACE THAN A MAN.

>> BONNIE: THE NUMBER OF AMERICANS, AGE 65 AND OLDER, IS EXPECTED TO MORE THAN DOUBLE FROM 46 MILLION TODAY TO MORE THAN 98 MILLION BY THE YEAR 2060.

>> WHAT ARE WE DOING TO THINK ABOUT THE FEIGN STRUCTURE COSTS AND NEEDS?

IS OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM GOING TO SUSTAIN THAT TYPE OF GROWTH?

HOW ABOUT TRANSPORTATION?

ARE WE MAKING THE SIGNS BIG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO BE READ BY THIS JUMP IN AN OLDER POPULATION ON HIGHWAYS, METRO, ALL OF THESE THINGS.

I THINK THIS IS A GREAT ISSUE.

WE NEED TO SEE MORE WOMENFOLK USED ON THESE ISSUES FROM A LEADERSHIP PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE IT IS NOT JUST IMPORTANT FOR WOMEN.

IT'S IMPORTANT FOR FAMILIES.

>> BONNIE: THE NATIONAL COUNCIL ON AGING IS FIGHTING AGEISM THIS WAY.

>> FIRST IT IS ABOUT EDUCATION.

IT IS ABOUT TALKING TO INDIVIDUALS IN THEIR 30S, THEIR 40S, THEIR 50S THAT, YOU KNOW, THE RETIREMENT OF MY GRANDFATHER OR MY GRANDMOTHER IS NOT THE RETIREMENT FOR US TODAY.

FACT OF MATTER IS WE'RE LIVING LONGER, OUR HEALTH CARE COSTS WILL CONTINUE TO INCREASE.

THE NO.

1 ASSET THAT MOST SENIORS HAVE TODAY IS THEIR HOME.

RIGHT?

AND SO DO THEY HAVE A REVERSE MORTGAGE?

DO THEY HAVE A SECOND MORTGAGE?

SO IT IS THINKING NOW HOW YOU ARE INVESTING IN YOUR FUTURE.

AND FOR WOMEN, MORE SO.

AND THEN IT IS HAVING THAT REALLY HIGH LEVEL PUBLIC POLICY DISCUSSION HERE IN WASHINGTON, D.C. WITH OUR CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVES, IT IS TALKING TO FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES ABOUT REALLY WHAT ARE THEIR PRACTICES AND WHAT WE'RE ADVOCATING FOR ADDITIONAL COUNCIL ON AGING IS TO ACTUALLY RETHINK HOW WE THINK ABOUT DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION IN EMPLOYMENT PRACTICES.

IT IS ADDING THIS ISSUE TO THE HR EMPLOYEE HANDBOOK ABOUT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT DIVERSITY, YOU THINK ABOUT THE WORKPLACE.

ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT AGE?

DIVERSITY, GENDER DIVERSITY, RAISES, ALL OF THE DIVERSITIES THAT MAKE A WINNING TEAM.

>> BONNIE: SO SABRINA, WHAT THIS BOILS DOWN TO IS ABOUT 40% OF WORKERS OVER THE AGE OF 50 LOSE THEIR JOBS DUE TO AGEISM.

>> SABRINA: WOW.

>> BONNIE: WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THIS AND DOES IT MEAN THAT AGEISM IS ALIVE AND WELL?

>> SABRINA: IT IS INTERESTING I HAD NOT READ THAT MUCH ABOUT IT BEFORE THE SHOW AND I WAS IN PREPARATION AND I THINK OBVIOUSLY WE SEE THIS IN EVERY GENERATION THESE TECHNOLOGICAL SHIFTS AND CULTURAL SHIFTS AND ECONOMIC SHIFTS THAT HAPPEN BETWEEN THE GENERATION.

I THINK WHAT IS INTERESTING NOW IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE KIND OF WORK PEOPLE ARE DOING DOESN'T FORCE THEM OUT OF THE WORKFORCE NATURALLY.

RIGHT?

IF YOU'RE WORKING ON A FARM YOU GET TO A POINT WHERE YOU MAYBE CAN'T DO THAT PHYSICAL LABOR.

WELL, NOW, WE THINK ABOUT PEOPLE GETTING OLDER AND HAVING MORE EXPERIENCE AND MORE CONTACTS OR VALUE REALLY FOR A BUSINESS AND SO IT'S INTERESTING IF WE DON'T THINK ABOUT PEOPLE AS ADDING VALUE AS THEY AGE.

I THINK THAT THIS IS IN LARGE PART SORT OF A CULTURAL REFRAMING THAT WE NEED TO HAVE IN CONVERSATION.

>> YOU KNOW WHAT IS SO FUNNY THIS IS A GENERATION THAT IS TURNING 50 THAT GREW UP SAYING DON'T TRUST ANYONE OVER 30.

>> RIGHT.

YEAH.

>> WE'RE KIND OF GETTING IT BACK NOW.

>> AS A BOOMER I'M NOT TO EVER GET THIS OLD.

>> EXACTLY WHEN I TURNED 50 I STARTED TO SAY TO PEOPLE THEY WOULD SAY HOW OLD ARE YOU?

I WOULD SAY CAN YOU BELIEVE I'M 50?

THEY BELIEVED IT SO I WENT ON STAYING FOR 10 MORE YEARS.

I THINK I HAVE TO HANG THAT ONE UP THOUGH.

>> BONNIE: YOU'RE VERY CUTE AND YOU'RE VERY FUNNY BUT IT IS NOT ACTUALLY FUNNY IF YOU'RE ON THE OPPOSITE END OF BEING TURNED OUT OF YOUR JOB BECAUSE OF AGE.

AND BY THE WAY, YOU TALKED ABOUT GENERATIONAL CHANGE.

OKAY.

FOR THE BOOMER, I GUESS, OLD PEOPLE STARTED AT 50.

NOW YOU'RE CONSIDERED OLD AND KICKED OUT AT 40.

AT 40.

SO IT IS GETTING YOUNGER AND YOUNGER.

ESPECIALLY TECHIE WHERE ALL THESE 25-YEAR-OLD MILLIONAIRES.

>> LOOK AT CONGRESS AND WHO CAME OUT ON TOP?

NANCY PELOSKI.

SHE DID NOT START HER CAREER UNTIL 50.

SHE HAD FIVE CHILDREN AND -- >> AND NINE GRANDCHILDREN.

>> SHE HAD FIVE CHILDREN AND SHE WANTED TO GET THEM LAUNCHED AND THEN SHE STARTED HER CAREER.

CAN YOU IMAGINE IF THEY PUT HER OUT TO FARM OR PASTURE AND THE BEGINNING WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE BEGINNING LOOK AT ALL THE LEADERSHIP SHE HAS GIVEN THIS COUNTRY.

>> SHE'S A WONDERFUL EXAMPLE AND I HOPE ALL OF CORPORATE AMERICA AND ALL OTHER EMPLOYERS LOOK AT THAT.

AND THINK TWICE ABOUT IT AND THAT -- THAT IS THE OTHER THING.

AS MEN AGE ARE THEY GOING TO GET IT AS THEY FACE AGEISM ARE THEY GOING TO GET IT BETTER ABOUT SEXISM?

>> I WANT TO BELIEVE THAT.

>> WANT TO GET IT BETTER ABOUT AGEISM.

>> IT IS NOT JUST THAT.

THE THING THAT SCARES ME IS TO THINK THAT WOMEN PARTICULARLY WOMEN ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO CHOOSE THEIR RETIREMENT ANY MORE.

BEING CHOSEN TO THEM.

AND SO THE IDEA THAT YOU CAN HAVE A JOB AND LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER BETWEEN 50 AND 70 AND WONDER AT ANY MOMENT IF YOU'RE GOING TO GET TAKEN OUT TO PASTURE IF YOU WILL IS VERY DIFFERENCE CONCERTING AND I THINK AGE WAS MADE BY THE ORGANIZATIONS MANY OF THESE WOMEN ARE NOT TO BE PREPARED FOR THAT FINANCIALLY OR PERSONALLY BECAUSE THEY DID START LATER.

YOU STARTED INVESTING THEIR 401 CALCULATOR IN LIFE AND YOU THINK I MAY HAVE TO WORK UNTIL 75 TO GET TO THAT PLACE.

I GOT TAKEN OUT AT 55.

THAT IS NO GOOD.

I THINK THE OTHER THING THAT IS POINTED OUT, TOO, MANY OF THESE WOMEN WHEN THEY ARE OUT OF THE WORKFORCE AND THEY ARE DISPLACED VOLUNTARILY ARE IN A SITUATION WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO END UP MAYBE GETTING A JOB IF THEY'RE LUCKY AND IF THEY DO GET A JOB IT IS GOING TO BE PAY THAT IS DRAMATICALLY LESS THAN THEY GOT BEFORE.

>> BONNIE: WOMEN AND MEN ALWAYS MAKE LESS.

THERE IS ONE UPSIDE TO THIS WHICH IS THE DEVELOPMENT OF WHAT I CALL THE FREELANCE ECONOMY.

EVERYBODY IS CONTRACTING AND SO MAYBE WITH -- YOU KNOW, A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT A PERSON CAN DO ON A CONTRACTUAL BASIS THEY CAN TRY TO GET -- MAKE AS MUCH MONEY CLOSE TO AS MUCH MONEY AS THEY WERE BEFORE.

VERY FEW WILL BE ABLE TO MAKE MORE THAN THEY WERE MAKING BEFORE.

BUT THAT IS THE EXCEPTION.

THAT IS THE NANCY PELOSKI OF THE WORLD.

>> I DON'T THINK THAT IS A SOLUTION FOR AN AWFUL LOT OF WOMEN AND MEN.

WHAT I -- >> THAT IS WHERE I'M GOING TO GO.

I THINK WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THE RETIREMENT AGE IS, THERE HAS BEEN THE DISCUSSION FOR THE LONGEST TIME ABOUT RAISING THE SOCIAL SECURITY RETIREMENT AGE.

I LIKE TO HAVE MORE OF A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHICH IS -- WHICH HAPPENS IN SOME COUNTRIES ABOUT LOWERING THE RETIREMENT AGE ABOUT ALLOWING PEOPLE IN THAT IN BETWEEN FROM 50 TO 70 TO BUY INTO MEDICARE WHICH THEN BRINGS THEIR HEALTH CARE -- ALL OF OUR HEALTH CARE COST OVER.

I DO THINK THAT THERE ARE REAL CONVERSATIONS ON THE POLICY END TO GET TO THIS QUESTION ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE ECONOMY BECAUSE IT ISN'T JUST ABOUT DISCRIMINATION BASED ON AGE.

IT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE ECONOMY.

WHAT KIND OF ECONOMY WE'RE CREATING AND WHETHER IT IS ONE THAT ALLOWS US TO WORK UNTIL WE'RE 75 YEARS OLD I >> CAN I RESPOND TO THAT REAL QUICKLY.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE DO THINK ABOUT THESE POLICY CHANGES AND TWO THINGS COME TO MIND AS YOU'RE SAYING THIS.

I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL WE DON'T ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO LEAVE THE WORKFORCE PREMATURELY.

I THINK THAT WE KNOW THAT WORKING IS VERY IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE'S CENTER OF WHOLE LIFE MEANING BUT THE OTHER THING IS I THINK IT REMINDS US WHY WE NEED FLEXIBILITY IN SOME OF OUR POLICIES ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE WORKFORCE.

THE FACT IS 22-YEAR-OLD IS CHEAPER THAN MYSELF, RIGHT, AT THIS POINT IN MY CAREER.

BUT SHE MAY -- HE MAY NEED THINGS HEALTH CARE AND OTHER BENEFITS THAT I MIGHT NOT NEED.

I MAY NEED DIFFERENT THINGS.

WE WANT PEOPLE TO CARVE OUT THE KIND OF WORK ENVIRONMENT THAT SUITS THEM AT DIFFERENT POINTS.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE OUR POLICIES DON'T BECOME SO RIGID THAT THE 22-YEAR-OLD AND 53-YEAR-OLD -- >> BONNIE: WHAT DO YOU SEE RIGID?

>> I THINK WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THINGS LIKE PAY STRUCTURE AND PAID LEAVE AND HEALTH CARE, THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY DOESN'T HAVE TO HAVE THE EXACT SAME PACKAGES RIGHT BECAUSE I COULD BE ON MY HUSBAND'S HEALTH DARE THE WAY I WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO WHEN I WAS 22.

THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE -- >> BONNIE: WHAT ABOUT FOR EXAMPLE MAKING IT EASIER TO SUE FOR AGEISM?

LOOK AT WHAT HAS GOT THE ME TOO MOVEMENT GOING, LAWSUITS AGAINST PERPETRATORS, THAT IS WHERE THEY GET STUNG FINANCIALLY.

THAT IS WHERE HOW YOU GET PEOPLE TO STOP THE THREAT OF A LAWSUIT.

SO DO YOU THINK MAKING LAWSUITS EASIER BY RETIRING -- PEOPLE FORCED INTO RETIREMENT IS A GOOD POLICY?

>> I DON'T THINK IT IS A POLICY, RIGHT, I THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT THAT HAPPENED.

>> BONNIE: YOU CHANGE COURT MADE LAW.

JUDGES RULE, YOU KNOW, TO MAKE IT EASIER.

THESE SUITS ARE VERY EXPENSIVE -- >> BUT IN THE ABSENCE OF THAT GOING DOWN THE LITIGATION ROUTE I DO THINK THERE ARE THINGS THAT COMPANIES CAN DO TO TAKE A BETTER AND CLOSER LOOK.

WE TALK ABOUT DIVERSITY MANY COMPANIES HAVE DIVERSITY OFFICERS NOW AND DIVERSITY IS VIEWED THROUGH GENDER AND OTHER FACETS OF DIVERSITY BUT DON'T SPEND A LOT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT AGE AND EMPLOYEES AND LOOKING SURE THAT BENEFITS ARE ADAPTED TO REFLECT THAT AS WELL AS POLICIES INTERNALLY TIE COMPANY.

MAYBE IF YOU GET DOWN THE ROAD THAT NEEDS TO BE THE STICK.

FOR NOW I THINK WE CAN HOPEFULLY HAVE SOME OF THESE COMPANIES DO A BETTER JOB OF RECOGNIZING THE COMPLICATED NATURE OF AGING.

>> BONNIE: WE ARE OUT OF TIME.

SORRY.

THAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION.

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