>> Eric: "PARADOX: ECHOES OF REFORM AND THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE" IS SET TO PREMIERE NEXT TUESDAY AT 7:00 P.M.

ON TWIN CITIES PBS.

THE UPCOMING DOCUMENTARY TRACES THE HISTORY OF THE M.P.D.

THROUGH RECENT INTERVIEWS AND SOME RARE ARCHIVAL FOOTAGE.

THE FILM EXPLORES A CENTURY OF COMMUNITY ACTIVISM, POLICE UNIONS, AND MAYORAL POLITICS THAT LED UP TO THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD.

WE'LL SIT DOWN WITH THE DOC'S EXECUTIVE PRODUCER AND FEATURED HISTORIAN IN JUST A MOMENT, BUT HERE'S A CLIP THAT HIGHLIGHTS THE LATE 1960S/EARLY 1970S ERA OF THEN-MINNEAPOLIS MAYOR CHARLES STENVIG.

>> SOME OFFICERS THOUGHT HE WAS A LITTLE BIT WILD AND TOO UNSTABLE TO REPRESENT THEM.

HE USED THE FEDERATION IN VARIOUS WAYS TO FURTHER HIS POLITICAL ADVANTAGE.

>> WHAT YOU SEE IS A POLICE UNION THAT REALLY RAMPS UP ITS POLITICAL INVOLVEMENT.

SO IT'S CRITICAL TO UNDERSTAND STENVIG'S ASSENT AS PARTLY ABOUT THE WAYS IN WHICH THE POLICE UNION IS MOVING TOWARDS ELECTORAL POLITICS.

INTO POLICYMAKING ITSELF, TO CONTROLLING THE LEVERS OF GOVERNMENT.

RUNNING FOR MAYOR, ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL.

>> TO QUELL OR STOP RUMORS ... >> HE CTUALLY DOESN'T GET THE ENDORSEMENT OF RICHARD NIXON WHO IS KIND OF THE NATIONAL LAW AND ORDER CANDIDATE BECAUSE STENVIG STANDS OUTSIDE HAT PARTY HAVE YOU.

>> IN THE ENDORSEMENT LETTER OF MY OPPONENT PRESIDENT NIXON REFERS TO ME AS EXTREMIST AND REACTIONARY FOR ADVOCATING LAW AND ORDER FOR THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS.

>> HE'S PAIRING THIS AW AND ORDER MENTAL WITH KIND OF AN EARLY VERSION OF WHAT WE WOULD UNDERSTAND TODAY AS EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANITY.

>> GOD HAS ALWAYS LED ME AND NEVER LET ME DOWN AND I SAY GOD'S GOING TO BE MY CHIEF ADVISOR AND IT'S NOT GOING TO COST THE CITY A PENNY.

>> STENVIG WILL WIN THAT ELECTION IN JUNE LARGELY WITH SUPPORT OF THE WHITE WORKING CLASS IN THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS INCLUDING THE SUPPORT OF ORGANIZED LABOR, AGAIN, HIS UNION ROOTS, HIS ROOTS IN THE POLICE OFFICERS FEDERATION ARE ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL BECAUSE HE'S A KNOWN AND OPEN UNION ADVOCATE.

ONCE HE'S ELECTED IN JUNE 1969, ALL THE EFFORTS THAT HAD MADE SOME EDWAY IN CITY GOVERNMENT ACROSS THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS TO TRY TO GRAPPLE WITH RACIALIZED POLICING WERE UNDONE WITHIN THREE OR FOUR MONTHS.

♪ ♪ >> Eric: HERE WITH MORE ON "PARADOX" TWO FAMILIAR FACES, DANIEL BERGIN HEADS UP THE PUBLIC HISTORY WORK HERE AT TPT AND IS THE EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF THE FILM.

YOHURU WILLIAMS IS A UNIVERSITY OF ST.

THOMAS HISTORIAN AND DIRECTOR OF THE SCHOOL'S RACIAL JUSTICE INITIATIVE.

ONE OF HIS AREAS OF EXPERTISE IS THE HISTORY OF POLICING IN THE TWIN CITIES.

WELL, THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS OR WHY YOU THOUGHT THIS WAS A WORTHY SUBJECT TO TAKE ON.

>> YEAH, ERIC, WITH ALL OUR MINNESOTA EXPERIENCE DOCUMENTARIES ONE OF THE QUESTIONS IN THE ORIGIN IS THAT IDEA OF HOW WE GOT TO NOW.

LOT OF GOOD REPORTING HERE ON "ALMANAC" AND A LOT OF DISCUSSION, LOT OF EBATE IN THE CURRENT KIND OF CLIMATE OF PUBLIC SAFETY, POLICING AND COMMUNITY.

WHAT WAS NEEDED I THINK WAS SOME OF THE HISTORY TO THE HEADLINES SO THAT'S WHAT WE DO, RIGHT?

THIS DEEP HISTORY ON THIS SUBJECT WAS IMPORTANT.

>> Mary: LET'S TALK DEEP HISTORY, HOW FAR BACK DOES THIS GO WE GO BACK TO THE ORIGIN, 1867, FOUNDING OF THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS, EVOLUTION OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF TWO LARGER QUESTIONS ABOUT POLICING, THAT IS WHO IS THE PUBLIC AND WHAT COUNTS AS SAFETY.

THAT REALLY ANIMATES THE DOCUMENTARY, HOW THAT OVER TIME HAS RESULTED IN A RACIALIZED POLICING, NOT JUST HERE IN MINNEAPOLIS BUT NATIONALLY, AND HOW THE POLITICIZATION OF POLICING HAS BEEN PROBLEMATIC FOR COMMUNITIES.

>> Eric: WHY DIDN'T MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DO A BETTER JOB HANDLING DIVERSITY?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING, THERE WERE EFFORTS.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE LEARN IN THE ILM IS MAYOR HUMPHREY, FOR INSTANCE, INITIATED SOME EARLY WE'D CALL IT DEI TRAINING, FRANKLY, ERIC.

HUMAN RIGHTS TRAINING AND THAT IDEA OF PROFESSIONALIZING POLICE WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS IMAGINED AT THE TURN OF THE LAST CENTURY, THE QUESTIONS RE WHY DIDN'T IT STICK, WHERE WAS THE RESISTANCE COMING FROM, BUT IT'S NOT A NEW IDEA.

>> Mary: WE DO HEAR FROM POLICE TOO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ALL THESE EFFORTS.

THERE ARE MANY, TONY BOZA IS IN IT, LOT OF VIEWERS WILL REMEMBER HIS -- HOW IMPORTANT WAS IT TO HAVE THAT PERSPECTIVE IN HERE AS WELL?

>> I THINK THAT VOICE PERMEATES THE DOCUMENTARY.

IN FACT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE TRUCKER STRIKE IN 1934 A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT MINNEAPOLIS WAS ONE COMMUNITY IN WHICH YOU HAD UNIONIZATION OF POLICE AND ADDRESSING THE ISSUE OF WORKERS' RIGHTS WITH REGARD TO POLICE.

AND ULTIMATELY THAT BECOMES PROBLEMATIC LATER ON BUT WE ALSO HAVE THE VOICES OF OFFICERS WHO TALK ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE IN DEALING WITH THESE CHALLENGES WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.

AND ALSO WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT ITSELF AS IT BECAME INCREASINGLY POLITICIZED.

>> Mary: DAN, CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT PERSPECTIVE TOO?

>> YEAH, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT AZO HOURU SAID, DR.

MICHAEL LANCING AND YOHURU'S ORAL HISTORY PROCESS, TO HEAR FROM COPS, LINE OFFICERS WHO WERE DOING THE WORK AND ONE OF THE GREAT VOICES THAT EMERGED IN THE FILM IS OFFICER WILLIAM MAVERTY, WHO WAS THERE IN THE EARLY '60s AND '07s WHO WE WANTED TO EE THE INSTITUTION CHANGE, TRIED TO CHANGE FROM WITHIN BUT AS YOU SAW SOMEONE LIKE CHARLES STENVIG AND THE OLD GUARD WAS RESISTING SOME OF THAT.

>> Eric: DID THE POLICE AS YOU WENT THROUGH THE ERAS DID THE OLICE REFLECT KIND OF THE SAME MOOD AS THE COMMUNITY HAD?

WERE THEY AHEAD OR BEHIND THE REST OF THE MINNEAPOLIS COMMUNITY?

>> IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION AND I THINK WE GET A SENSE OF THAT WITH TONY BOZA WHO'S BOUGHT IN IN 1980 ULTIMATELY TO TRY TO DEPOLITICIZE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

ONE OF THE MORE POIGNANT MOMENTS OF THE FILM, BOZA SAYS, LOOK, I INSTITUTED THESE AGGRESSIVE POLICING, STAKEOUTS AND CHOKEHOLDS AND YET CRIME WENT UP, AND HE SAYS POLICING IS IRRELEVANT TO CRIME.

THIS IS LARGELY OTHER ISSUES THAT WE HAVE TO ADDRESS IN TERMS OF THINKING HOLISTICALLY ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY SO TO HAVE TONY BOZA SHARE THAT WITH 8 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE HERE AND COMING FROM NEW YORK, VERY POWERFUL >> Mary: THOSE OF US WHO IN THIS TOWN WHO REMEMBER HOW QUOTABLE AND COLORFUL, HE'S STILL PRODUCING THE QUOTES AND CONTROVERSY, ISN'T HE, IN THIS?

>> YES, HE IS, AND THAT CANDOR IS IMPORTANT.

I THINK THAT HAD TO DO FRANKLY WITH YOHURU AND HIS PROCESS OF SCHOLARLY HISTORIES AND YOHURU IS SO INFORMED, HE AND TONY IMMEDIATELY CLICKED.

IT WAS A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING AND TONY LEANED IN AND SO WE WERE GRATEFUL FOR THAT INTERVIEW AND HIS CANDOR AND IT HELPS KIND OF INFORM AND GIVE US INSIGHT INTO THE INSTITUTION.

>> Mary: HOW LUCKY TO STILL HAVE HIM, THAT VOICE.

>> YES, JUST A YEAR BEFORE HIS DEATH.

WE ALSO HAVE DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE TO SHARE WITH HIM SO I THINK TONY WAS USED TO DEALING WITH INTERVIEWS IN A WAY THAT HE WOULD MEANDER AND TAKE IT IN THE DIRECTION HE WANTED TO BUT WE WERE ABLE TO PRESENT SOME DOCUMENTS, NEWSPAPER ACCOUNTS AND OTHER PIECES OF EVIDENCE THAT REALLY KEPT HIM OCUSED.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, ALLOWED HIM TO REMEMBER SOME EPISODES LIKE THE KILLING OF SOUTH SCOTT THAT ARE NOT THING THAT'S WE TYPICALLY TALK ABOUT WHICH ARE PRECURSORS IN A LOT OF WAYS TO THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD AND THE CONTINUING PROBLEM OF POLICE BRUTALITY IN OUR COMMUNITY.

>> AND IMPORTANTLY BECAUSE A VOICE FEATURED IS SOMEONE FAMILIAR TO "ALMANAC" AUDIENCES AND THAT'S JUDGE LADIES AND GENTLEMENUNE LANG, A PEER AND CONTEMPORARY OF CHIEF BOZA'S WHO WAS AT THAT TIME WORKING IN LAW AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE SPACE AND HAVING BLACK ELDERS AND COMMUNITY LEADERS LIKE JUDGE LANG WAS IMPORTANT TOO.

>> Eric: 30,000 FEET WHAT'S THE PICTURE OF THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT OVER TIME?

IS IT JUST SIMILAR OR PEAKS AND VALLEYS?

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY ABOUT THAT?

>> I THINK THOSE TWO QUESTIONS THAT LARGELY FRAME OUR STUDY ARE STILL RELEVANT.

IT'S STILL THIS CONTINUING QUESTION OF WHO IS THE PUBLIC AND WHAT COUNTS AS SAFETY.

AND SO WE LOOK AT HIS FROM THE PERSPECTIVE NOT JUST OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY BUT INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, THE LBGTQ + COMMUNITY AND THE WAYS WE REIMAGINE OR THINKING ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY IN OUR CONTEMPORARY MOMENT HAVE TO BE SHAPED BY HOW THEY UNDERSTAND THE NARRATIVE AND EVOLUTION.

SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO LEVEL-SET, YOU DON'T HAVE A HISTORIOGRAPHY OF POLICING IN THIS COMMUNITY.

WE THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT MICHAEL LANCING AND I TEAMING UP WITH THIS LEGEND AT T PT IN THE COCREATIVE PROCESS TO BRING THAT STORY FOR THE FIRST TIME.

>> Eric: DID YOU COME AWAY FROM THIS OPTIMISTIC, PESSIMISTIC, SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE >> FUNNY YOU USED THOSE WORDS, WE INTERVIEWED GARY HYNES, AND IT'S INTERESTING YOU HEAR THAT IN HE FILM, BECAUSE OF THAT STRUGGLE OF HOPE.

AND GARY, ABOUT THAT, GOING FROM OPTIMISTIC TO SICK AND TIRED AND HE AND HIS BAND PERFORMED AFTER GEORGE FLOYD'S MURDER.

AND THOSE TENSIONS STILL WITH US TODAY.

>> Mary: YOU BOTH MENTIONED GEORGE FLOYD A COUPLE F TIMES, THERE'S NO WAY WE CAN'T MENTION HIM AND WHILE THIS IS A HISTORIC DOCUMENTARY IT DOES HAVE TO INFORM SOME OF THE THINKING AND STORYTELLING AND PERSPECTIVE ON IT, YES?

>> CERTAINLY DOES AND IN FACT ONE OF THE STORIES WE TELL IS THE STORY OF A WOMAN NAMED OPHELIA RICE, THE VICTIM OF POLICE BRUTALITY IN 1899.

THE FIRST TIME A MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICER WAS HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR POLICE BRUTALITY, THAT WAS THE CASE OF THOMAS BRITT AND OPHELIA RICE, THAT'S WHY THAT NARRATIVE HISTORICAL RECOVERY IS SO IMPORTANT.

WHEN WE UNDERSTAND THAT WE CAN UNDERSTAND THE PEAKS AND VALLEYS YOU REMEMBER TALKING ABOUT, ERIC, AND HOW IF WE'RE REALLY GOING TO BE SINCERE IN THE WORK OF THINKING HOW WE REIMAGINE PUBLIC SAFETY WE REALLY NEED THAT HISTORY TO GROUND US, GUIDE US.

>> Mary: THIS IS EDUCATIONAL FOR US RIGHT NOW, ISN'T IT?

>> IT ABSOLUTELY IS IN THIS MOMENT IN THIS POLITICAL MILIEU WE'RE EXPERIENCING LOCALLY AND NATIONALLY, THESE OF LAW AND ORDER AND POLITICS AND PUBLIC SAFETY ARE COMING TOGETHER AND IN OUR CONVERSATION IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT BACKSTORY AND THAT THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME WE'VE EXPERIENCED THAT.

>> Eric: YOU'RE GOOD BUT DID YOU TIME THIS FOR THE TOTAL RELEVANCY RIGHT NOW?

>> WE COULDN'T HAVE IMAGINED THIS, ERIC.

AND ALSO I THINK YOHURU WOULD SAY IT'S ALWAYS RELEVANT, SADLY IT ALWAYS WILL BE IN THE FUTURE, WE'LL ALWAYS HAVE THESE PENSIONS BUT WE FEEL LIKE "PARADOX" IS GOING TO REALLY HELP US IN THE EDUCATIONAL WAY, I HOPE ENFORCEMENT EMBRACES THIS AS A CONVERSATION PIECE AND TOUCHSTONE AS WELL.

>> Eric: TUESDAY, 7:00 P.M.

CHECK YOUR LOCAL LISTINGS.

>> WATCH EVERYWHERE, STREAM ND WATCH EVERYWHERE.

>> Mary: THANK YOU.

♪