>> "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> Eric: IN THE NEXT HOUR WE'LL TALK WITH MINNESOTA'S BUDGET DIRECTOR ABOUT THE FEDERAL SHUTDOWN'S IMPACT ON THE STATE, DR.

MARK DEPAOLIS HAS AN ESSAY, THE OWNER OF FOOD AND WINE'S RESTAURANT OF THE YEAR S HERE, AND WE'LL OF COURSE FILL THE COUCH WITH POLITICAL ANALYSTS, ALL COMING UP ON "ALMANAC."

♪♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 1.7 MILLION PEOPLE THROUGH ITS MEMBER-OWNER COOPERATIVES AND CUSTOMERS.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH AND HELPING COMMUNITIES THRIVE.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

>> Eric: FULL SHOW FOR YOU TONIGHT.

WE'LL PREVIEW THE TWIN CITIES PBS DOCUMENTARY "PARADOX" THAT EXPLORES MORE THAN A CENTURY OF MINNEAPOLIS POLICE REFORM.

WE'LL TALK WITH FORMER DIRECTOR OF NAMI-MN SUE ABDERHOLDEN, WHO RETIRED EARLIER THIS WEEK.

KAOMI LEE TRAVELED TO THE WHITE EARTH RESERVATION TO VISIT AN INDIGENOUS RADIO STATION.

AND OF COURSE PLENTY OF POLITICS FOR YOU.

CATHY HAS THE NIGHT OFF, HERE TO HELP ME OUT, ALMANAC POLITICAL REPORTER MARY LAHAMMER.

>> Mary: THANK YOU, DOUBLE E. WE'VE ENTERED THE THIRD WEEK OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN WITH O END IN SIGHT.

HOW IS IT IMPACTING MINNESOTA AND WILL THINGS ET WORSE AS TIME GOES ON?

AHNA MINGE IS THE BUDGET DIRECTOR, SHE'S BEEN FOLLOWING THIS CLOSELY.

WE GOT A BRIEF FROM YOU EARLY ON IN THE SHUTDOWN, WHAT DO YOU KNOW, WHAT'S CHANGED, WHAT DO YOU KNOW NOW THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW AT THE BEGINNING?

>> EARLY IN THE MONTH OF OCTOBER RIGHT AFTER THE, SORT OF THE FUNDING LAPSE IN OCTOBER ANALYSIS AT THAT POINT ON THOSE PROGRAMS THAT WE KNEW WERE 100% FEDERALLY FUNDED THAT, OR SORT OF ALWAYS THOSE THAT ARE MOST LIKELY TO BE IMMEDIATELY IMPACTED.

AND SINCE THEN WE'VE BEEN WORKING -- WE HAVE A LIST OF THE 7 OR 800 FEDERAL GRANTS THAT THE STATE ADMINISTERS, AND WE'VE BEEN SORT OF LOOKING AT THEM LINE BY LINE TO UNDERSTAND WHERE DO WE HAVE FUNDING FROM A PREVIOUS APPROPRIATION.

>> Mary: ARE THERE SPECIFICS?

ARE THERE EXAMPLES OF THINGS YOU DIDN'T SEE A COUPLE WEEKSING AGO NOW YOU'RE SEEING?

>> ONE THING WE HAVE A LOT MORE CLARITY ON IS THE S.N.A.P.

>> Eric: FOOD STAMPS.

>> IT SERVES ABOUT 440,000 MINNESOTANS A MONTH AND, SO I WAS DOING THE MATH, I THINK THAT'S ABOUT 160, $170 PER PERSON PER MONTH.

>> Mary: YOU CAN DO THAT MATH ON THE FLY.

>> I DID NOT, I CALCULATED [ LAUGHTER ] I'M NOT THAT GOOD.

>> Mary: BUT YOU'RE THE STATE BUDGET DIRECTOR, BUT THIS IS A REAL IMPACT, THIS SOUNDS SIGNIFICANT FOR S.N.A.P.

>> IT'S A REAL IMPACT AND WE HAD FUNDING TO PROVIDE THOSE BENEFITS FOR FOLKS THE MONTH OF OCTOBER.

BUT WHAT HEARING NOW FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS THEY DON'T WANT US TO ISSUE BENEFITS THE MONTH OF NOVEMBER, THERE'S NOT ADEQUATE FUNDS.

SO WE ARE WORKING WITH ALL OF THE PARTNERS, IT'S A HUGE PROGRAM WITH A LOT OF FOLKS INVOLVED RUNNING IT AND WORKING TO PROVIDE THE NOTICE THAT WE NEED TO PEOPLE ABOUT THE WAY THAT THEY'LL BE IMPACTED.

>> Eric: A LOT OF MONEY SLOSHING AROUND IN STATE GOVERNMENT AND POTS OF MONEY, CAN YOU MOVE THINGS AROUND UNILATERALLY WITH AN EXECUTIVE ORDER?

, THE LEGISLATIVE ADVISORY COMMISSION FOR INSTANCE I THINK HAS A POT OF MONEY OR IS THAT WE'RE OUT OF LUCK UNLESS THE FEDS COME THROUGH >> YOU KNOW, THE LEGISLATURE PUTS STRINGS AROUND THE MONEY IT GIVES THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH TO SPEND SO THERE'S REALLY LIMITS TO THE FLEXIBILITY THAT WE HAVE.

THE SMALL POT OF MONEY THAT WE CAN GO TO THE LEGISLATIVE ADVISORY COMMISSION IS MUCH SMALLER, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST A FEW MILLION DOLLARS.

AND WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A THING LIKE S.N.A.P.

IS $70 MILLION A MONTH, W.I.C.

IS LIKE $9 MILLION A MONTH, THESE ARE BIG PROGRAMS THAT WE JUST CAN'T BACKFILL.

AND I THINK AS FOLKS KNOW, THE STATE BUDGET, WE'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK, WE'RE IN A MUCH BETTER PLACE THAN WE WERE BEFORE THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION, BUT THAT'S THE RESULT OF A LOT OF HARD COMPROMISE AND WE IMPLY CAN'T BACKFILL BECAUSE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S NOT ABLE TO REACH A BUDGET.

>> Mary: LET'S TALK ABOUT EMPLOYEES, FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S ONE OF THE TOP EMPLOYERS.

I THINK STILL IN MINNESOTA.

18,000 IS WHAT YOU HAD SAID PREVIOUSLY, NON-POSTAL WORKERS.

IS THAT NUMBER THE SAME?

HAS IT CHANGED BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN PERMANENTLY LET GO PERHAPS, RIGHT, OR SOME BROUGHT BACK.

WHAT'S THE NUMBER NOW?

>> SO THE BEST NUMBER WE HAVE IS STILL THAT 18,000 OR ABOUT 30,000 IF YOU COUNT POSTAL WORKERS.

SO WE DON'T HAVE UP TO DATE OR LIKE REAL-TIME INFORMATION ABOUT THE NUMBER OF LAYOFFS AND FURLOUGHS IN THE STATE.

ALL WE KNOW THERE'S BEEN A FEW HUNDRED FOLKS WHO HAVE APPLIED FOR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE BUT THAT'S REALLY THE BEST INFORMATION WE HAVE ABOUT THAT RIGHT NOW.

>> Eric: DOES THIS COMPLICATE THE NOVEMBER REVENUE FORECAST WHICH IS KIND OF THE DOCUMENT THAT THE LEGISLATURE STARTS WITH IN FEBRUARY?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT WILL FACTOR INTO BROADER MACRO ECONOMIC PROJECTIONS AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE SOME ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT HOW LONG THIS WILL GO ON.

ONE THING THAT OUR ECONOMISTS ARE REALLY AWARE OF AND PAYING ATTENTION TO IS JUST ACCESS TO DATA.

WE RELY ON DATA PRODUCED BY FEDERAL AGENCIES TO DO THE FORECAST, SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE MONITORING CLOSELY.

BUT LUCKILY WE WERE ABLE TO GET DATA THROUGH SEPTEMBER AND WE USUALLY, USUALLY RELY ON OCTOBER DATA SO IT'S JUST ONE MONTH.

>> Mary: RELATED TO THAT I WAS WONDERING TOO WHAT MOODY'S CAME OUT WITH THIS WEEK AND SAID MINNESOTA WAS AT HIGH RISK OF RECESSION AND POINTED TO THE AGRICULTURE ECONOMIC, RELATED TO THE TARIFFS AND PERHAPS PUTTING YOU ON ALERT FOR THE FORECAST?

ARE WE GOING TO SEE A DOWNTURN BASED ON THAT SOME >> YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF WE WOULD AGREE WITH MOODY'S CHARACTERIZATION.

CERTAINLY WE'RE WATCHING, WE MONITOR AND RELEASE MONTHLY REVENUE REPORTS AND THE REPORT FOR THE FIRST UARTER OF THE STATE FISCAL YEAR OUR REVENUES ARE A LITTLE BIT BELOW OUR FORECAST.

MIRE MARE AGRICULTURE IN PARTICULAR TOO?

>> WE DON'T REPORT THAT LEVEL FOR THIS, IT WAS BY THE CORPORATE FRANCHISE TAX, PROBABLY A RESULT OF SOME OTHER FACTORS IN THE ECONOMY.

>> Mary: ALL RIGHT.

BUDGET DIRECTOR, THANKS.

>> Eric: APPRECIATE YOU COMING OUT.

♪♪ >> Eric: OPEN ENROLLMENT BEGAN THIS WEEK FOR MEDICARE.

AND SENIORS ARE SEEING THE SAME RISING PREMIUMS FACING MANY MINNESOTANS.

IN ADDITION THE MEDICARE ADVANTAGE MARKET IS OFFERING FEWER CHOICES AND SIGNIFICANT CHANGES FOR OUT-OF-POCKET COSTS.

IT'S A COMPLICATED ISSUE AND HERE TO EXPLAIN IT, CHRISTOPHER SNOWBECK.

HE COVERS THE HEALTH INSURANCE INDUSTRY FOR THE "STAR TRIBUNE."

WHAT IS IT WITH THE ADVANTAGE PLANS THAT THEY'RE TAKING THE BRUNT OF THIS?

WHAT'S GOING ON THERE?

>> WELL, I MEAN, -- WELL, YEAH.

BIG PICTURE, COSTS ARE GOING UP.

THE ADVANTAGE PLANS, THERE'S MORE PRESSURE ON THE FUNDING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

PLANS SAY IT HASN'T BEEN KEEPING UP WITH THE RISING COSTS.

WE WERE AROUND THIS TABLE PREVIOUSLY TALKING ABOUT RISK ADJUSTMENT IN MEDICARE ADVANTAGE ADVANTAGE AND CONTROVERSY ABOUT HAVE THE PLANS BEEN GAMING IT, GOVERNMENT'S KIND OF TIGHTENING THAT UP.

THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS IN THE MIX, BUT KIND OF IT'S COST AND FUNDING.

>> Mary: I'M GUESSING OME OF THE PEOPLE WATCHING HAVE MEDICARE ADVANTAGE, A DECENT AMOUNT OF MINNESOTANS, ISN'T IT LIKE HALF?

>> YEAH, I THINK IT'S ABOUT 650,000, MAYBE SOME COST PLANS IN THERE, IF YOU WANT TO TALK COST PLANS, BUT, YEAH.

SO IT'S A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>> Mary: SO THE IMPACT IS BIG.

PEOPLE SEEM TO BE STRUGGLING, ARE YOU GETTING A LOT OF QUESTIONS?

I KNOW I'M HEARING FROM FAMILY MEMBERS TRYING TO NAVIGATE THIS.

WHAT KIND OF QUESTIONS ARE YOU HEARING MOST?

>> YEAH, THE BIGGEST POCKET OF CHANGE IS UCARE, UCARE IS REALLY POPULAR, 158,000 PEOPLE IN MINNESOTA.

UCARE IS NOT GOING TOED DO MEDICARE ADVANTAGE IN JANUARY SO ALL THOSE FOLKS HAVE TO FIND A NEW PLAN.

THEY HAVE A PARTICULARLY CHALLENGING QUESTION BECAUSE THERE'S MEDICARE ADVANTAGE AND THEN THERE'S ORIGINAL MEDICARE, AND IF YOU DO ORIGINAL MEDICARE THERE'S A MEDIGAP AND THERE'S A PART D. AND SO YOU GOT TO KIND OF WEIGH THE TWO.

SO THERE'S A LOT TO CONSIDER.

>> Eric: INDIVIDUAL COUNTIES ARE BEING TARGETED FOR LEAVING TOWN?

IS >> YEAH.

THREE COUNTIES IN THE STATE WILL HAVE NO MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLANS.

HISTORICALLY THAT'S BEEN AN ISSUE WITH MEDICARE ADVANTAGE, WHEN IT ALL STARTED IT WAS MORE OF A METRO THING ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> Eric: IT WAS TOUTED AS KIND OF A MISSING PIECE TO THE HEALTH CARE PUZZLE, WASN'T IT AT THE TIME IT ECAME FAMOUS?

>> SURE, YEAH.

NO, THAT'S RIGHT.

AND IT REALLY CAME ON WITH PART D BACK IN 2005, THERE BEES.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT BIG PICTURE PREMIUMS, MINNESOTA HAS A LOT OF FORTUNE 500, BIG EMPLOYERS, WHAT ABOUT GROUP INSURANCE, INCREASES ARE WE HEARING ON THAT?

>> YEAH, SO THE FORWARD LOOKING SURVEYS GUESSING 6.5% IS WHAT MERCER HAS REPORTED.

IT'S KIND OF A HARD NUMBER TO THINK ABOUT IN THE SENSE THAT SOME YEARS AGO IT WAS DOUBLE-DIGITS AND EVERYBODY WAS FREAKING OUT.

AND SO YOU THINK, WELL, 6.5.

BUT THE BASE IS SO BIG, 6.5% ON THE HUGE BASE IS SIGNIFICANT, AND 6.5 IS HIGHER HAN IT'S BEEN IN ABOUT 15 YEARS.

>> Mary: DOES THAT MEAN CONSUMERS ARE LIKELY O SEE THAT 6.5% OR COULD THAT BE A HIGHER NUMBER DOWN THE FOOD CHAIN?

>> YOU KNOW, IT REALLY DEPENDS HOW THEY SPLIT THE COSTS.

>> Eric: WHAT ARE THE COST DRIVERS THAT HAVE BROUGHT US TO THIS POINT?

>> YOU KNOW, THE ONE THAT EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT IS THE GLP1s SO WEIGHT LOSS DRUGS, THEY'RE BOTH COSTLY AND EXTREMELY POPULAR.

SO LOTS OF NEW SPENDING.

I HEAR FROM PHYSICIANS ABOUT A LOT OF SPECIALTY TREATMENTS WITH NAMES I DON'T REMEMBER, FRANKLY, BUT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF REALLY CUTTING EDGE STUFF THAT'S COMING ONLINE WITH REALLY BIG MONTHLY COSTS.

>> Mary: YOU MENTION THE PREVALENCE OF THE WEIGHT LOSS AND OZEMPIC, A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT NAME, ARE WE SEEING OTHER HEALTH CARE COSTS GO DOWN, THOUGH, IN RELATION TO THAT?

>> I MEAN, THAT IS THE BIG-PICTURE HOPE.

I'M NOT SURE THAT WE'VE SEEN -- HOW MUCH OF IT WE'VE SEEN IN THE DATA YET, BUT THAT'S THE HOPE.

>> Mary: THAT WAS KIND OF THE PROMISE AND IDEA THAT EVENTUALLY THAT WOULD PAY OFF.

>> YEAH AND IT'S ONE OF THE BIG PROBLEMS ALWAYS WITH HEALTH INSURANCE TOO, COSTS TODAY VERSUS COSTS IN THE LONG RUN, IF YOU DO GOOD THINGS TODAY DO YOU SEE THOSE SAVINGS BECAUSE PEOPLE GO TO A DIFFERENT INSURER AND BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

>> Eric: TWO STORIES ON THE FRONT PAGE THIS MORNING.

>> Mary: YOU'RE A BUSY MAN.

>> Eric: THANKS FOR COMING OVER.

FEDERAL CUTS TO PUBLIC BROADCAST MEDIA ARE BEING FELT NATIONALLY, INCLUDING HERE AT TPT.

FOR SMALLER, INDEPENDENT STATIONS THE LOSS I GREATER.

REPORTER KAOMI LEE WENT TO THE WHITE EARTH RESERVATION TO VISIT AN INDIGENOUS INDEPENDENT RADIO STATION.

>> IT IS WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 8TH, 2025.

>> TERRY GOOD SKY IS THE RESIDENT DJ AND HOST AT NIIJII RADIO.

>> I'M THE MORNING GUY FOR NIIJII RADIO.

[ SPEAKING NATIVE LANGUAGE ] >> THE STATION'S MOTTO IS "HOME OF BEAUTIFULLY RANDOM MUSIC."

>> WHEN I FIRST GOT HERE THEY WERE LIKE WHAT DO YOU BRING TO THE TABLE?

WELL, I BRING A VARIETY OF MUSIC AND EXPERTISE AS A SINGER, DANCER, POW WOW PERSON.

LET'S GET INTO OUR WEATHER CONDITIONS HERE FOR THE WHITE EARTH AREA.

>> ON THE TALK OF THE TERRY SHOW, YOU'LL HEAR BAD JOKES.

>> WHICH U.S.

STATE HAS THE SMALLEST SOFT DRINKS?

MNI SOTA!

>> AND YOU'LL HEAR PRIDE AND CULTURE.

>> GOOD MORNING OR [ SPEAKING NATIVE LANGUAGE ] , WHICH MEANS GOOD MORNING.

>> HE SAYS IT'S A JOB THAT HE ENJOYS.

>> I LIKE TO MAKE PEOPLE SMILE AND HOPEFULLY, YOU KNOW, ENJOY THEMSELVES IN THE MORNING.

>> WE'RE HEARD ALL OVER THE WORLD BECAUSE OF OUR STREAMING.

>> MAGGIE ROUSU IS STATION MANAGER OF KKWE OR NIIJII RADIO.

SHE'S AN ENROLLED MEMBER OF THE WHITE EARTH NATION.

HE HEADS A NON-PROFIT CALLED THE WHITE EARTH LAND RECOVERY PROJECT THAT OWNS THE STATION.

THE STATION TRAVELS TO BROADCAST MEETINGS OF THE MINNESOTA CHIPPEWA TRIBE EACH YEAR.

>> WE FEEL LIKE IT'S IMPORTANT FOR OUR PEOPLE HERE TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON AT THE GOVERNANCE LEVEL.

WE ALSO AIR OUR TRIBAL COUNCIL MEETINGS SO PEOPLE STAY INFORMED.

>> LET'S GET INTO THIS DATE IN NATIVE AMERICAN HISTORY, AND THIS IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY AMERICAN INDIAN.NET.

>> THE STATION'S TRANSMITTER HAS A 50-MILE RADIUS FROM ITS TOWER IN PINE POINT, HAS LISTENERS FROM HOLLY TO MAHNOMEN TO BEMIDJI.

SHE SAYS ELDERS HOMEBOUND AND OVERSEAS MILITARY LISTENING ONLINE ESPECIALLY RELY ON NIIJII RADIO TO STAY CONNECTED.

ROUSU SAYS PROGRAMMING CAN HELP CORRECT FALSE NARRATIVES ABOUT NATIVE PEOPLE.

>> WE HAVE LISTENERS THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF THE RESERVATION.

THERE IS A STORE OWNER IN PURIM AND HE CALLED IN AND SAID HE WANTED TO DONATE TO THE STATION.

AND THEN HE TOLD ME THAT HE DEVELOPED A WHOLE DIFFERENT UNDERSTANDING OF NATIVE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE REALLY WANT TO DO IS BUILD BRIDGES THAT CONNECT OUR NATIVE PEOPLE, ANISHINAABE, TO THE GREATER COMMUNITY.

>> UT NIIJII RADIO IS IN A FIGHT FOR SURVIVAL.

THE STATION IS FACING A NEARLY 50% CUT IN FUNDING FOR OPERATIONS.

>> I DON'T THINK THEY UNDERSTAND COMMUNITY STATIONS AT ALL.

WHEN I TALK ABOUT IMPACT, I'M TALKING NOT ONLY ABOUT DELIVERING EDUCATION AND INFORMATION, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE ABILITY FOR HEALING.

WE AS A PEOPLE HAVE SUFFERED THROUGH COLONIZATION AND A LOT OF THINGS WERE TAKEN.

WE HAVE A HEALING SONGS, WE HAVE TRAVEL SONGS, WE HAVE SONGS THAT HELP US MOVE FORWARD.

>> MOVING FORWARD IS WHAT NIIJII RADIO IS TRYING TO DO.

ROUSU IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO COME UP WITH $800 A DAY TO PAY ITS TRANSMITTER BILL, KEEP A HANDFUL OF STAFF, AND CONTINUE TO AIR ITS NATIONAL PROGRAMMING.

ROUSU HAS JUST HIRED A MARKETING PERSON AND WILL REACH OUT TO WHITE EARTH AND OTHERS TO RAISE REVENUE.

>> IS THERE REAL DANGER THAT NIIJII RADIO COULD GO AWAY?

>> THERE IS.

>> IT'S A REALITY THAT MANY SMALL PUBLIC BROADCASTERS ARE FACING.

LAKELAND PUBLIC TELEVISION LOST MORE THAN A THIRD OF ITS FUNDING FROM THE CPB.

ITS NIGHTLY NEWSCASTS ARE SCENE THROUGH MUCH OF THE CENTRAL NORTHLAND.

>> FOR US WE HAVE NOT MADE ANY DRASTIC CUTS AT THIS POINT.

WE'RE ALREADY A VERY, VERY LEAN OPERATION.

>> ONE OF THE CASUALTIES WAS THE STATION'S PUBLIC AFFAIRS SHOW "LAKELAND CURRENTS."

CEO HENG SAYS THE STATION HAS SOME RESERVES THAT CAN KEEP THEM AFLOAT ABOUT A YEAR.

AN AGGRESSIVE FUND-RAISING CAMPAIGN IS IN THE WORK.

>> THAT'S GOING TO TOUCH ON ALL DIFFERENT AREAS, FOUNDATIONS, INDIVIDUAL GIVING, MAJOR DONORS, SPECIAL EVENTS, WE'RE LOOKING AT EVERYTHING AT THIS POINT.

>> LIKE NIIJII RADIO, LAKELAND PBS DOES RECEIVE SOME STATE FUNDING, HOWEVER THAT FUNDING CAN FLUCTUATE AND WAS REDUCED THIS YEAR.

IN MAY THE STATION JOINED NATIONAL PBS IN A LAWSUIT OVER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S EXECUTIVE ORDER TO CANCEL FEDERAL FUNDING FOR PUBLIC MEDIA.

>> IT WAS JUST A WAY OF STANDING UP FOR PUBLIC MEDIA STATIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> THE WHITE HOUSE SAYS ITING SOUGHT TO END TAXPAYER FUNDED MEDIA IT SAYS IS BIASED.

NEW FUNDING MODELS ARE EMERGING.

PHILANTHROPISTS AND INDIVIDUAL DONORS HAVE ALREADY ANNOUNCED PLANS TO POOL MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR PUBLIC MEDIA.

AT NIIJII RADIO, EFFORTS TO PRESERVE ANISHINAABE CULTURE IS AT THE CORE OF WHAT THEY DO.

MAGGIE ROUSU SAYS THEY'LL SOON INSTALL A BACK-UP TRANSMITTER AND ASK FOR ON-AIR PLEDGE DONATIONS.

>> WHAT I REALLY FEEL IS IF PEOPLE LISTEN AND THEY START TO LEARN ABOUT WHO WE ARE AS NATIVE AMERICAN PEOPLE, AS ANISHINAABE PEOPLE, THEY WILL SEE THE VALUE.

♪♪ >> Mary: OUR NEXT GUEST SPENT NEARLY A QUARTER CENTURY LEADING THE MINNESOTA CHAPTER OF THE NATIONAL ALLIANCE FOR MENTAL ILLNESS.

SUE ABDERHOLDEN HAS BEEN ONE OF MINNESOTA'S LEADING ADVOCATES FOR MENTAL HEALTH AWARENESS, ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE AND THE AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT.

HER LAST OFFICIAL DAY ON THE JOB WAS WEDNESDAY.

AND ABDERHOLDEN AGREED TO SPEND HER FIRST FRIDAY NIGHT OF RETIREMENT WITH US.

SUE, HOW YOU DOING?

YOU'RE ONE OF THE BUSIEST PEOPLE I KNOW AT THE CAPITOL.

HOW ARE YOU DOING NOT BEING IN THAT BUILDING?

>> IT'S VERY STRANGE, I HAVE TO ADMIT THAT.

AND I'M GOING TO NEED TO GET USED TO NOT DOING ANYTHING.

>> Mary: PLANS?

HOBBIES?

OTHER ADVOCACY?

WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?

>> SO I HAVE NO HOBBIES, BECAUSE ALL I'VE DONE IS WORK.

[ LAUGHTER ] BUT LOOKING FORWARD TO TAKING WALKS, TAKING NAPS, READING BOOKS AND THEN COME JANUARY I'LL FIGURE OUT WHAT ELSE I WANT TO DO.

>> Eric: LAST TIME I HEARD YOU SPEAK SOMEBODY IN THE CROWD SAID WHAT IS WRONG WITH MINNESOTA'S MENTAL HEALTH SYSTEM, AND ADMITTEDLY YOU WERE HAVING A BAD DAY BUT YOU SAID THERE IS NO SYSTEM.

IS IT THAT BAD?

>> OH, NO, I MEAN, I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY OUR SYSTEM ISN'T BROKEN, IT WAS NEVER BUILT.

SO WE HAVE TO TAKE THAT PERSPECTIVE.

BUT WE NOW HAVE THE FOUNDATION AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT.

WE ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT WORKS, WE HAVE FUNDED A LOT OF IT.

WE JUST HAVEN'T FULLY FUNDED THINGS.

>> Eric: IF PEOPLE -- IF THE LAWMAKERS AND THE GOVERNOR WANTED TO FUND THIS, HEY COULD.

>> YES.

>> Eric: IS IT BECAUSE IT'S NOT A PARTICULARLY POWERFUL POLITICAL CONSTITUENCY OR WHAT'S GOING ON?

>> A LOT OF IT IS FUNDED THROUGH HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES AND THERE ARE A LOT OF COMPETING PRIORITIES THERE, RIGHT?

SO WE'RE NOT COMPETING AGAINST ROADS, WE'RE COMPETING AGAINST PEOPLE WHO ARE OLDER ADULTS, PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, CHILDREN WHO ARE POOR.

SO IT BECOMES DIFFICULT, RIGHT, AND HUMAN SERVICES USUALLY GETS THE LEAST AMOUNT OF MONEY IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, WHEN THE BUDGET, ESPECIALLY WHEN BUDGETS ARE TOUGH, THAT'S THE COMMITTEE THAT USUALLY GETS CUT.

>> Mary: DO YOU STILL FEEL LIKE YOUR ISSUES HAVE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT?

I REMEMBER SENATOR DAVE SENJEM, REPUBLICAN FROM ROCHESTER TOURING A NEW FACILITY DOWN THERE IN AND WHAT A CHAMPION HE WAS WHEN HE WAS IN LEADERSHIP.

WHAT A NONPARTISAN, BIPARTISAN ISSUE, DO YOU SEE THAT?

>> I WOULD SAY ESPECIALLY AT THE STATE LEVEL ABSOLUTELY.

WE SEE SUPPORT FROM BOTH PARTIES BECAUSE MENTAL ILLNESS IMPACTS EVERYONE, DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN.

SO WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE PERSONAL OR FAMILY EXPERIENCES WHO HAVE COME TO THE TABLE AND REALLY SUPPORTED OUR SSUES.

>> Eric: MENTAL HEALTH WAS IN THE SPOTLIGHT AGAINST WITH THE ANNUNCIATION SHOOTINGS AND I WONDER WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE ON THAT LINK OMETIMES THAT'S MADE.

>> IT SHOULDN'T BE MADE.

SO MENTAL ILLNESS AND VIOLENCE ARE NOT ACTUALLY LINKED.

AND WE ALWAYS WANT TO CAUTION PEOPLE AND I KNOW YOU'VE HAD ON PEOPLE FROM THE VIOLENCE PROJECT OVER AT HMM LIN AND THEY'LL TALK ABOUT HOW IT'S A LOT MORE COMPLEX THAN THAT.

JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE DEPRESSION DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE GOING TO BE A MASS SHOOTER, RIGHT?

SO THERE ARE A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER THINGS INVOLVED SO I THINK WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT THAT.

ON THE OTHER HAND WE NEED TO BE SURE ALL CHILDREN ARE GROWING UP HEALTHY AND MENTALLY HEALTHY AS WELL.

AND OUR SUGGESTION TO THE LEGISLATURE JUST LAST MONTH WAS TO FULLY FUND OUR SCHOOL LINKED MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAM TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERY CHILD CAN ACCESS MENTAL HEALTH CARE SERVICES IN THEIR SCHOOL, YOU KNOW, ELIMINATING BARRIERS TO ACCESS SO THAT THEY ARE MENTALLY HEALTHY.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT SCHOOL COUNSELORS?

WE WERE ONCE TOWARDS THE BOTTOM OF THE NATION ON THAT, HAVE WE MADE SOME IMPROVEMENTS AND IS THAT WHERE YOU'D LIKE TO SEE MONEY AND FUNDING AS WELL?

>> WE DO NEED ALL THE SCHOOL SUPPORT PERSONNEL, NOT JUST SCHOOL COUNSELORS BUT SOCIAL WORKERS AND PSYCHOLOGISTS.

BUT THE SCHOOL LINKED PROGRAM ACTUALLY BRINGS IN MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS FROM OUR COMMUNITY PROVIDERS TO CO-LOCATE.

AND THAT IS REALLY A GREAT WAY TO DO IT, YOU HAVE A FIREWALL BETWEEN EDUCATION AND HEALTH CARE RECORDS, THEY CAN BUILD PUBLIC AND RIVATE -- BILL PUBLIC AND PRIVATE INSURANCE AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE IN SPECIAL ED.

>> Eric: WHAT CAN BE DONE TO IMPROVE THE SITUATION WHERE COUNTY JAILS ARE HOLDING MENTALLY ILL FOLKS BECAUSE THERE AREN'T MENTAL HEALTH BEDS, WHAT'S GOING ON THERE?

>> WELL, WE'VE MADE SOME IMPROVEMENTS.

WE REDID THE ENTIRE COMPETENCY RESTORATION SYSTEM TWO YEARS AGO AND IT'S NOW BEING IMPLEMENTED.

WE'RE HOPING ESPECIALLY WITH SOME OF THOSE MISDEMEANORS THAT WOULD HOPEFULLY EVENTUALLY BE WIPED OUT THAT PEOPLE ARE GETTING CONNECTED TO SERVICES -- >> Mary: WHAT ABOUT BEDS?

WE HAVE HEARD SO MUCH PRESSURE ON THAT ISSUE.

>> WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT AS A FRONTED DOOR AND BACK DOOR.

WE CAN'T BUILD OUR WAY OUT OF THIS.

WE USED TO HAVE 45 PEOPLE WAITING FOR A BED TEN YEARS AGO, NOW IT'S 450.

WHAT ARE WE DOING ON THE FRONT END SO PEOPLE AREN'T ENDING UP IN JAIL IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND IF WE DON'T DO THAT WE'LL NEVER ADDRESS THE PROBLEM.

>> Mary: WHAT ARE YOUR BIGGEST ACCOMPLISHMENTS?

BECAUSE YOU'VE HAD A CAREER OF ADVOCACY EVEN OUTSIDE OF THESE ISSUES.

>> I THINK ATTITUDES HAVE CHANGED LOT.

MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES ARE FUNDED THROUGH HEALTH CARE INSTEAD OF JUST GRANTS.

I THINK WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF TRAINING FOR POLICE OFFICERS, TEACHERS, PEOPLE WHO PROVIDE FOSTER CARE AS WELL.

WE'VE SEEN NEW VIDENCE BASED PRACTICES ESPECIALLY FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE THEIR FIRST EPISODE OF PSYCHOSIS.

AND WE HAVE MORE COMMUNITY SERVICES THAN WE EVER DID BEFORE SO WE ABSOLUTELY HAVE MADE PROGRESS BUT THERE IS MUCH MORE TO DO.

>> Eric: A GRATEFUL STATE THANKS OU.

>> WELL, THANK YOU.

>> Eric: ALL THE BEST.

>> Mary: GREAT CAREER OF WORK.

THANK YOU.

♪♪ >> Eric: "PARADOX: ECHOES OF REFORM AND THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE" IS SET TO PREMIERE NEXT TUESDAY AT 7:00 P.M.

ON TWIN CITIES PBS.

THE UPCOMING DOCUMENTARY TRACES THE HISTORY OF THE M.P.D.

THROUGH RECENT INTERVIEWS AND SOME RARE ARCHIVAL FOOTAGE.

THE FILM EXPLORES A CENTURY OF COMMUNITY ACTIVISM, POLICE UNIONS, AND MAYORAL POLITICS THAT LED UP TO THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD.

WE'LL SIT DOWN WITH THE DOC'S EXECUTIVE PRODUCER AND FEATURED HISTORIAN IN JUST A MOMENT, BUT HERE'S A CLIP THAT HIGHLIGHTS THE LATE 1960S/EARLY 1970S ERA OF THEN-MINNEAPOLIS MAYOR CHARLES STENVIG.

>> SOME OFFICERS THOUGHT HE WAS A LITTLE BIT WILD AND TOO UNSTABLE TO REPRESENT THEM.

HE USED THE FEDERATION IN VARIOUS WAYS TO FURTHER HIS POLITICAL ADVANTAGE.

>> WHAT YOU SEE IS A POLICE UNION THAT REALLY RAMPS UP ITS POLITICAL INVOLVEMENT.

SO IT'S CRITICAL TO UNDERSTAND STENVIG'S ASSENT AS PARTLY ABOUT THE WAYS IN WHICH THE POLICE UNION IS MOVING TOWARDS ELECTORAL POLITICS.

INTO POLICYMAKING ITSELF, TO CONTROLLING THE LEVERS OF GOVERNMENT.

RUNNING FOR MAYOR, ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL.

>> TO QUELL OR STOP RUMORS ... >> HE CTUALLY DOESN'T GET THE ENDORSEMENT OF RICHARD NIXON WHO IS KIND OF THE NATIONAL LAW AND ORDER CANDIDATE BECAUSE STENVIG STANDS OUTSIDE HAT PARTY HAVE YOU.

>> IN THE ENDORSEMENT LETTER OF MY OPPONENT PRESIDENT NIXON REFERS TO ME AS EXTREMIST AND REACTIONARY FOR ADVOCATING LAW AND ORDER FOR THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS.

>> HE'S PAIRING THIS AW AND ORDER MENTAL WITH KIND OF AN EARLY VERSION OF WHAT WE WOULD UNDERSTAND TODAY AS EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANITY.

>> GOD HAS ALWAYS LED ME AND NEVER LET ME DOWN AND I SAY GOD'S GOING TO BE MY CHIEF ADVISOR AND IT'S NOT GOING TO COST THE CITY A PENNY.

>> STENVIG WILL WIN THAT ELECTION IN JUNE LARGELY WITH SUPPORT OF THE WHITE WORKING CLASS IN THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS INCLUDING THE SUPPORT OF ORGANIZED LABOR, AGAIN, HIS UNION ROOTS, HIS ROOTS IN THE POLICE OFFICERS FEDERATION ARE ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL BECAUSE HE'S A KNOWN AND OPEN UNION ADVOCATE.

ONCE HE'S ELECTED IN JUNE 1969, ALL THE EFFORTS THAT HAD MADE SOME EDWAY IN CITY GOVERNMENT ACROSS THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS TO TRY TO GRAPPLE WITH RACIALIZED POLICING WERE UNDONE WITHIN THREE OR FOUR MONTHS.

♪♪ >> Eric: HERE WITH MORE ON "PARADOX" TWO FAMILIAR FACES, DANIEL BERGIN HEADS UP THE PUBLIC HISTORY WORK HERE AT TPT AND IS THE EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF THE FILM.

YOHURU WILLIAMS IS A UNIVERSITY OF ST.

THOMAS HISTORIAN AND DIRECTOR OF THE SCHOOL'S RACIAL JUSTICE INITIATIVE.

ONE OF HIS AREAS OF EXPERTISE IS THE HISTORY OF POLICING IN THE TWIN CITIES.

WELL, THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS OR WHY YOU THOUGHT THIS WAS A WORTHY SUBJECT TO TAKE ON.

>> YEAH, ERIC, WITH ALL OUR MINNESOTA EXPERIENCE DOCUMENTARIES ONE OF THE QUESTIONS IN THE ORIGIN IS THAT IDEA OF HOW WE GOT TO NOW.

LOT OF GOOD REPORTING HERE ON "ALMANAC" AND A LOT OF DISCUSSION, LOT OF EBATE IN THE CURRENT KIND OF CLIMATE OF PUBLIC SAFETY, POLICING AND COMMUNITY.

WHAT WAS NEEDED I THINK WAS SOME OF THE HISTORY TO THE HEADLINES SO THAT'S WHAT WE DO, RIGHT?

THIS DEEP HISTORY ON THIS SUBJECT WAS IMPORTANT.

>> Mary: LET'S TALK DEEP HISTORY, HOW FAR BACK DOES THIS GO WE GO BACK TO THE ORIGIN, 1867, FOUNDING OF THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS, EVOLUTION OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF TWO LARGER QUESTIONS ABOUT POLICING, THAT IS WHO IS THE PUBLIC AND WHAT COUNTS AS SAFETY.

THAT REALLY ANIMATES THE DOCUMENTARY, HOW THAT OVER TIME HAS RESULTED IN A RACIALIZED POLICING, NOT JUST HERE IN MINNEAPOLIS BUT NATIONALLY, AND HOW THE POLITICIZATION OF POLICING HAS BEEN PROBLEMATIC FOR COMMUNITIES.

>> Eric: WHY DIDN'T MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DO A BETTER JOB HANDLING DIVERSITY?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING, THERE WERE EFFORTS.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE LEARN IN THE ILM IS MAYOR HUMPHREY, FOR INSTANCE, INITIATED SOME EARLY WE'D CALL IT DEI TRAINING, FRANKLY, ERIC.

HUMAN RIGHTS TRAINING AND THAT IDEA OF PROFESSIONALIZING POLICE WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS IMAGINED AT THE TURN OF THE LAST CENTURY, THE QUESTIONS RE WHY DIDN'T IT STICK, WHERE WAS THE RESISTANCE COMING FROM, BUT IT'S NOT A NEW IDEA.

>> Mary: WE DO HEAR FROM POLICE TOO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ALL THESE EFFORTS.

THERE ARE MANY, TONY BOZA IS IN IT, LOT OF VIEWERS WILL REMEMBER HIS -- HOW IMPORTANT WAS IT TO HAVE THAT PERSPECTIVE IN HERE AS WELL?

>> I THINK THAT VOICE PERMEATES THE DOCUMENTARY.

IN FACT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE TRUCKER STRIKE IN 1934 A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT MINNEAPOLIS WAS ONE COMMUNITY IN WHICH YOU HAD UNIONIZATION OF POLICE AND ADDRESSING THE ISSUE OF WORKERS' RIGHTS WITH REGARD TO POLICE.

AND ULTIMATELY THAT BECOMES PROBLEMATIC LATER ON BUT WE ALSO HAVE THE VOICES OF OFFICERS WHO TALK ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE IN DEALING WITH THESE CHALLENGES WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.

AND ALSO WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT ITSELF AS IT BECAME INCREASINGLY POLITICIZED.

>> Mary: DAN, CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT PERSPECTIVE TOO?

>> YEAH, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT AZO HOURU SAID, DR.

MICHAEL LANCING AND YOHURU'S ORAL HISTORY PROCESS, TO HEAR FROM COPS, LINE OFFICERS WHO WERE DOING THE WORK AND ONE OF THE GREAT VOICES THAT EMERGED IN THE FILM IS OFFICER WILLIAM MAVERTY, WHO WAS THERE IN THE EARLY '60s AND '07s WHO WE WANTED TO EE THE INSTITUTION CHANGE, TRIED TO CHANGE FROM WITHIN BUT AS YOU SAW SOMEONE LIKE CHARLES STENVIG AND THE OLD GUARD WAS RESISTING SOME OF THAT.

>> Eric: DID THE POLICE AS YOU WENT THROUGH THE ERAS DID THE OLICE REFLECT KIND OF THE SAME MOOD AS THE COMMUNITY HAD?

WERE THEY AHEAD OR BEHIND THE REST OF THE MINNEAPOLIS COMMUNITY?

>> IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION AND I THINK WE GET A SENSE OF THAT WITH TONY BOZA WHO'S BOUGHT IN IN 1980 ULTIMATELY TO TRY TO DEPOLITICIZE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

ONE OF THE MORE POIGNANT MOMENTS OF THE FILM, BOZA SAYS, LOOK, I INSTITUTED THESE AGGRESSIVE POLICING, STAKEOUTS AND CHOKEHOLDS AND YET CRIME WENT UP, AND HE SAYS POLICING IS IRRELEVANT TO CRIME.

THIS IS LARGELY OTHER ISSUES THAT WE HAVE TO ADDRESS IN TERMS OF THINKING HOLISTICALLY ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY SO TO HAVE TONY BOZA SHARE THAT WITH 8 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE HERE AND COMING FROM NEW YORK, VERY POWERFUL >> Mary: THOSE OF US WHO IN THIS TOWN WHO REMEMBER HOW QUOTABLE AND COLORFUL, HE'S STILL PRODUCING THE QUOTES AND CONTROVERSY, ISN'T HE, IN THIS?

>> YES, HE IS, AND THAT CANDOR IS IMPORTANT.

I THINK THAT HAD TO DO FRANKLY WITH YOHURU AND HIS PROCESS OF SCHOLARLY HISTORIES AND YOHURU IS SO INFORMED, HE AND TONY IMMEDIATELY CLICKED.

IT WAS A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING AND TONY LEANED IN AND SO WE WERE GRATEFUL FOR THAT INTERVIEW AND HIS CANDOR AND IT HELPS KIND OF INFORM AND GIVE US INSIGHT INTO THE INSTITUTION.

>> Mary: HOW LUCKY TO STILL HAVE HIM, THAT VOICE.

>> YES, JUST A YEAR BEFORE HIS DEATH.

WE ALSO HAVE DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE TO SHARE WITH HIM SO I THINK TONY WAS USED TO DEALING WITH INTERVIEWS IN A WAY THAT HE WOULD MEANDER AND TAKE IT IN THE DIRECTION HE WANTED TO BUT WE WERE ABLE TO PRESENT SOME DOCUMENTS, NEWSPAPER ACCOUNTS AND OTHER PIECES OF EVIDENCE THAT REALLY KEPT HIM OCUSED.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, ALLOWED HIM TO REMEMBER SOME EPISODES LIKE THE KILLING OF SOUTH SCOTT THAT ARE NOT THING THAT'S WE TYPICALLY TALK ABOUT WHICH ARE PRECURSORS IN A LOT OF WAYS TO THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD AND THE CONTINUING PROBLEM OF POLICE BRUTALITY IN OUR COMMUNITY.

>> AND IMPORTANTLY BECAUSE A VOICE FEATURED IS SOMEONE FAMILIAR TO "ALMANAC" AUDIENCES AND THAT'S JUDGE LADIES AND GENTLEMENUNE LANG, A PEER AND CONTEMPORARY OF CHIEF BOZA'S WHO WAS AT THAT TIME WORKING IN LAW AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE SPACE AND HAVING BLACK ELDERS AND COMMUNITY LEADERS LIKE JUDGE LANG WAS IMPORTANT TOO.

>> Eric: 30,000 FEET WHAT'S THE PICTURE OF THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT OVER TIME?

IS IT JUST SIMILAR OR PEAKS AND VALLEYS?

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY ABOUT THAT?

>> I THINK THOSE TWO QUESTIONS THAT LARGELY FRAME OUR STUDY ARE STILL RELEVANT.

IT'S STILL THIS CONTINUING QUESTION OF WHO IS THE PUBLIC AND WHAT COUNTS AS SAFETY.

AND SO WE LOOK AT HIS FROM THE PERSPECTIVE NOT JUST OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY BUT INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, THE LBGTQ + COMMUNITY AND THE WAYS WE REIMAGINE OR THINKING ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY IN OUR CONTEMPORARY MOMENT HAVE TO BE SHAPED BY HOW THEY UNDERSTAND THE NARRATIVE AND EVOLUTION.

SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO LEVEL-SET, YOU DON'T HAVE A HISTORIOGRAPHY OF POLICING IN THIS COMMUNITY.

WE THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT MICHAEL LANCING AND I TEAMING UP WITH THIS LEGEND AT T PT IN THE COCREATIVE PROCESS TO BRING THAT STORY FOR THE FIRST TIME.

>> Eric: DID YOU COME AWAY FROM THIS OPTIMISTIC, PESSIMISTIC, SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE >> FUNNY YOU USED THOSE WORDS, WE INTERVIEWED GARY HYNES, AND IT'S INTERESTING YOU HEAR THAT IN HE FILM, BECAUSE OF THAT STRUGGLE OF HOPE.

AND GARY, ABOUT THAT, GOING FROM OPTIMISTIC TO SICK AND TIRED AND HE AND HIS BAND PERFORMED AFTER GEORGE FLOYD'S MURDER.

AND THOSE TENSIONS STILL WITH US TODAY.

>> Mary: YOU BOTH MENTIONED GEORGE FLOYD A COUPLE F TIMES, THERE'S NO WAY WE CAN'T MENTION HIM AND WHILE THIS IS A HISTORIC DOCUMENTARY IT DOES HAVE TO INFORM SOME OF THE THINKING AND STORYTELLING AND PERSPECTIVE ON IT, YES?

>> CERTAINLY DOES AND IN FACT ONE OF THE STORIES WE TELL IS THE STORY OF A WOMAN NAMED OPHELIA RICE, THE VICTIM OF POLICE BRUTALITY IN 1899.

THE FIRST TIME A MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICER WAS HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR POLICE BRUTALITY, THAT WAS THE CASE OF THOMAS BRITT AND OPHELIA RICE, THAT'S WHY THAT NARRATIVE HISTORICAL RECOVERY IS SO IMPORTANT.

WHEN WE UNDERSTAND THAT WE CAN UNDERSTAND THE PEAKS AND VALLEYS YOU REMEMBER TALKING ABOUT, ERIC, AND HOW IF WE'RE REALLY GOING TO BE SINCERE IN THE WORK OF THINKING HOW WE REIMAGINE PUBLIC SAFETY WE REALLY NEED THAT HISTORY TO GROUND US, GUIDE US.

>> Mary: THIS IS EDUCATIONAL FOR US RIGHT NOW, ISN'T IT?

>> IT ABSOLUTELY IS IN THIS MOMENT IN THIS POLITICAL MILIEU WE'RE EXPERIENCING LOCALLY AND NATIONALLY, THESE OF LAW AND ORDER AND POLITICS AND PUBLIC SAFETY ARE COMING TOGETHER AND IN OUR CONVERSATION IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT BACKSTORY AND THAT THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME WE'VE EXPERIENCED THAT.

>> Eric: YOU'RE GOOD BUT DID YOU TIME THIS FOR THE TOTAL RELEVANCY RIGHT NOW?

>> WE COULDN'T HAVE IMAGINED THIS, ERIC.

AND ALSO I THINK YOHURU WOULD SAY IT'S ALWAYS RELEVANT, SADLY IT ALWAYS WILL BE IN THE FUTURE, WE'LL ALWAYS HAVE THESE PENSIONS BUT WE FEEL LIKE "PARADOX" IS GOING TO REALLY HELP US IN THE EDUCATIONAL WAY, I HOPE ENFORCEMENT EMBRACES THIS AS A CONVERSATION PIECE AND TOUCHSTONE AS WELL.

>> Eric: TUESDAY, 7:00 P.M.

CHECK YOUR LOCAL LISTINGS.

>> WATCH EVERYWHERE, STREAM ND WATCH EVERYWHERE.

>> Mary: THANK YOU.

♪♪ >> WELL, COLD AND FLU SEASON IS HERE AGAIN, AND DOCTOR'S OFFICES ARE GETTING BOMBARDED WITH COUGHING AND SNEEZING AND MISERABLE PATIENTS.

SOMETIMES YOU THINK IT WOULD BE NICE TO BREAK IT UP, TO SEE A PATIENT WITH SOMETHING UNUSUAL, EVEN IF IT CAME FROM A HOSPITAL SOAP OPERA.

SO TRY THIS: WHEN YOU MAKE AN APPOINTMENT, TELL THEM YOU HAVE SOME WEIRD PROBLEM FROM AN OLD-TIMEY MEDICAL TEXTBOOK, LIKE ALIEN HAND SYNDROME.

THIS IS WHERE YOU START TO FEEL LIKE YOUR HANDS ARE NOT YOUR OWN, BUT BELONG TO SOMEONE ELSE.

IT’S LIKE A BAD SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE FROM THE '50S.

OR FOREIGN ACCENT SYNDROME, WHERE YOU SUDDENLY START SPEAKING LIKE SOMEONE FROM "DOWNTON ABBEY."

THIS IS ONE YOU CAN EVEN DIAGNOSE OVER THE PHONE.

OR WEREWOLF SYNDROME.

YOU START GROWING HAIR EVERYWHERE.

IT’S LIKE YOU FORGOT TO SHAVE.

YOUR FOREHEAD.

GO TO THE DOCTOR, BUT WAIT UNTIL AFTER HALLOWEEN.

OR PICA, HAVING AN URGE TO EAT WEIRD STUFF, ALTHOUGH MY DAD WAS FROM EUROPE SO HE DID THIS ALL THE TIME.

OR AQUAGENIC URTICARIA, THIS IS WHERE YOU SUDDENLY BECOME ALLERGIC TO WATER, WHICH IS LIKE 97% OF YOUR ENTIRE BODY.

YOU CAN GET COVERED IN HIVES, WHICH ARE ALSO MADE OF WATER.

OR AUTO-BREWERY SYNDROME, WHERE PEOPLE START MAKING ALCOHOL IN THEIR SMALL INTESTINE BECAUSE OF CERTAIN WEIRD TYPES OF FUNGUS.

YOU MAY NEED TO GET THEM AN UBER HOME FROM THE OFFICE.

OR ALICE IN WONDERLAND SYNDROME, WHERE YOU FEEL LIKE YOUR BODY IS GETTING BIGGER.

IT FEELS LIKE THE ROOM IS SHRINKING IN ON YOU.

YOUR ARMS AND LEGS START TO FEEL LONGER.

THINGS LOOK FURTHER AWAY AND SEEM SMALLER.

THEY’LL TELL YOU TO MAKE AN APPOINTMENT, IF YOU CAN STILL GET IN THE DOOR.

SO TELL THEM ONE OF THOSE WEIRD THINGS ON THE PHONE, BUT THEN WHEN YOU GET THERE SAY YOU REALLY JUST HAVE A COLD AFTER ALL.

TRUST ME, THEY’LL BE HAPPY THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO LOOK ANYTHING UP.

♪♪ >> Mary: OUR NEXT GUEST SPENT YEARS AS ONE OF THE MOST ACCLAIMED CHEFS IN THE TWIN CITIES BEFORE FINALLY OPENING HER OWN RESTAURANT LAST YEAR.

THAT EATERY, DIANE'S PLACE, HAS QUICKLY SEEN EVEN MORE ACCOLADES AND SUCCESS, CULMINATING THIS MONTH IN "FOOD & WINE MAGAZINE" DECLARING IT THE BEST RESTAURANT OF THE YEAR.

THE FULL-SERVICE RESTAURANT OFFERS AN INTIMATE DINING EXPERIENCE WITH A MENU BRINGING EXPERTLY-BAKED PASTRIES AND DESSERTS TOGETHER WITH TRADITIONAL HMONG COMFORT FOODS AND MODERN INTERPRETATIONS OF SOUTHEASTERN CUISINES, ALL IN TRIBUTE TO THE FOODS OF TH HEAD CHEF'S CHILDHOOD.

DIANE MOUA IS THE OWNER AND EXECUTIVE CHEF AT DIANE'S WE ARE HONORED TO HAVE YOU HERE.

WE SHOULD POINT OUT WHAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US FOR THOSE WHO DON'T SEE THIS AT HOME, DID INE BROUGHT SOME OF HER AMAZING, AMAZING PASTRIES.

AND THIS IS KIND OF WHAT YOU START STARTED WITH.

PEOPLE ORIGINALLY -- YEAH.

>> Mary: TALK ABOUT THE ORIGINS IN PASTRIES FOR YOU.

>> I STARTED OFF WITH MY CAREER I DID PLATED DESSERTS AND FINE DINING AND WHEN I WORKED WITH GAVIN HE'S LIKE WE'RE OPENING A BAKERY AND I WAS LIKE I DON'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE CROISSANTS OR BREADS, I DON'T HAVE PATIENCE FOR BREADS, IT'S SUCH AN EXPERTISE.

AND HE WENT ME TO THE MILL FOR FIVE AYS AND I CAME BACK AND HE WAS LIKE WE'RE OPENING A BAKERY.

>> Mary: WAIT, FIVE DAYS, YOU LEARNED HOW TO MAKE PASTRIES IN FIVE DAYS >> ONCE YOU SEE HOW PEOPLE DO IT YOU TRIAL RUN AND I WORKED WITH AMAZING CHEST WHO GAVE ME TIPS HOW TO DO IT AND YOU TROUBLESHOOT UNTIL YOU GET THIS.

AND I ACTUALLY LOVE IT, IF I COULD JUST DO PASTRIES ALL DAY, LAMINATION, I WOULD DO IT.

>> Eric: IS IT A BIG STEP TO HMONG MAIN DISHES?

>> IT IS DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, I WAS GOING TO OPEN THE RESTAURANT PEOPLE WERE LIKE HOW IS THIS GOING TO WORK?

YOU HAVE PASTRIES AND YOU HAVE HMONG FOOD BUT IT WORKS REALLY WELL.

THERE'S A LOT OF FLAVORS, I LET MY TEEN PICK A LOT OF THE FLAVORS NOW THAT WE'VE BEEN A YEAR IN, BUT THERE'S A VIETNAMESE CROISSANT, ONE OF MY VIETNAMESE PASTRY GIRL WHO CAME OUT OF SCHOOL AND NEVER DONE CROISSANTS BEFORE DIANNE'S BEEN DOING AN AMAZING OB, THE CRAB RANGOON, A JUST HIRED A PASTRY CHEF.

>> Mary: YOU'RE ALSO KNOWN FOR PASTRIES, NOT JUST SWEET.

HOW IMPORTANT CULTURALLY THAT >> THE SWEET PORK ITSELF IS SOMETHING I GREW UP EATING.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT I'M A PLAIN CROISSANT PERSON, IF I GO ANYWHERE TO A AKERY I'M GETTING PLAIN CROISSANT BUT THE VARIETY IT GIVES PEOPLE, YOU MIGHT LIKE COFFEE, YOU MIGHT LIKE SAVORY, SO IT GIVES EVERYBODY A CHANCE TO TRY DIFFERENT THINGS.

, WHAT'S THE MISSION STATEMENT FOR YOUR RESTAURANT?

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH?

>> OH, YOU KNOW, SO MUCH STUFF, BUT.

[ LAUGHTER ] YOU KNOW, I THINK THE RESTAURANT HAS BEEN DOING REALLY GOOD BECAUSE OF THE STAFF, HOW YOU TREAT YOUR STAFF.

EVERYWHERE I WORKED I'VE ALWAYS BEEN SO PROUD OF WHERE I WORK AND I WANTED TO CREATE A PLACE WHERE MY TEAM IS PROUD TO WORK AT AND IF YOU COME TO A RESTAURANT YOU CAN FEEL THE ENERGY.

I ALWAYS SAY TO THEM IF YOU DON'T WANT TO WORK HERE YOU SHOULDN'T WORK HERE BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN FEEL YOUR NEGATIVE ENERGY, IF YOU DON'T LIKE YOUR JOB YOU SHOULDN'T BE THERE.

AND EVERYBODY THAT WORKS THERE, THEY'RE REALLY PROUD AND I HOPE WE CAN CONTINUE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT IS SO MY THING IS BEING AT WORK AND BEING ABLE TO BE PROUD OF WHERE YOU WORK AT.

>> Mary: HOW ABOUT THE RECIPES, YOUR CHILDHOOD, BECAUSE THESE WEREN'T JUST WRITTEN DOWN IN LITTLE NICE NOTECARDS?

>> OH, IT WASN'T.

BEFORE WE OPENED THE RESTAURANT I HAD RECIPES FOR ALL THE PASTRIES BUT THE FOOD PART WHEN THE LINE COOKS CAME IN WE WERE LIKE, ALL RIGHT, WE'RE GOING TO PUT THIS ON TOP OF THE SCALE AND I WAS LIKE DOING WHAT I NORMALLY DO AT HOME TO CREATE A RECIPE FOR WHAT WE HAVE IN THE RESTAURANT.

WHEN YOU'RE COOKING AT ALL THE EVENTS THE AUNTIES, GRANDMAS, MY MOM AND THEM THEY'RE ADDING A DASH OF THIS, DASH OF THAT.

NOTHING'S WRITTEN DOWN.

ONE OF OUR MOST FAVORITE DISHES IS HMONG PULLED PORK AND I HAD TO FACETIME MY PARENTS BECAUSE GROWING UP MY GRANDMA MADE IT, MOM AND DAD MADE IT BUT I NEVER MADE IT FROM START TO END SO I WAS FACETIMEING LIKE LIKE DOES THIS LOOK RIGHT RIGHT NOW?

THERE WAS A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH ON MAKING SURE IT'S RIGHT.

>> Mary: I WANT TO HEAR MORE ABOUT THE SENSORY, THAT WAS JUST FACETIME WHERE THEY COULD SEE IT.

HOW ABOUT THE TASTE AND SMELL, HOW MANY DIFFERENT SENSORIES ARE YOU BRINGING IN >> >> TASTE AND SMELL, I KNOW WHAT IT TASTES LIKE, BUT GETTING IT TO THAT PART WAS THE HARD PART.

YOU KNOW, WHAT I FIRST DID IT NEEDED MORE FAT AND MY AD'S LIKE YOU NEED MORE FAT AND I'M LIKE ARE YOU SURE?

IT LOOKS SO FATTY, THIS DISH NEEDS FAT TO PRESERVE, IT WAS A WHOLE THING.

>> Eric: YOU HAVE BEEN CALLED OR SAID TO HAVE BECOME THE AMERICAN CAPITAL OF HMONG FOOD, MINNEAPOLIS.

ARE YOU GETTING OUTREACH FROM PROSPECTIVE RESTAURATEURS AROUND THE COUNTRY?

>> YES, I WAS JUST IN MICHIGAN, I'M GOING TO BE IN MIAMI IN A FEW MONTHS, IT'S BEEN REALLY GOOD, I'M REALLY HAPPY, GETTING THIS RECOGNITION IS OOD FOR US HERE, IT'S GOOD FOR THE CITY, GOOD FOR THE STATE.

IT'S GOOD FOR THE HMONG COMMUNITY.

>> Eric: SO IF I GO TO 117 14TH AVENUE NORTHEAST IN MINNEAPOLIS WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD STARTER MEAL TO GET?

>> BRUNCH OR DINNER?

>> Eric: DINNER.

>> DINNER, I WOULD GET THE BEEF CARPACCIO WHICH IS ALMOST LIKE, IT'S REALLY GOOD, LIGHT, DELICIOUS.

>> Eric: I TRUST YOU.

>> FOLLOWED BY HMONG PULLED PORK.

>> Mary: ONE MORE EVENT THIS WEEKEND, THE HISTORY CENTER IS DOING 50 YEARS OF HMONG HISTORY IN MINNESOTA.

>> I'M COOKING TOMORROW, THERE'S GOING TO BE 3 O 400 PEOPLE AND WE'RE GOING TO BE COOKING THERE.

, WHAT'S NEXT FOR YOU?

>> RIGHT NOW WE HAVE AN EVENT SPACE THAT HOLDS UP TO 250 PEOPLE SO THE RESTAURANT'S REALLY BUSY RIGHT NOW AND I JUST REALLY WANT TO CONCENTRATE ON THAT.

>> Mary: EXPANSION >> NOT RIGHT NOW.

>> Eric: FOOD TRUCK?

>> NO.

[ LAUGHTER ] YOU KNOW, E DO BRUNCH AND BREAKFAST, LUNCH, AND DINNER WITH EVENT SPACE SO IT KEEPS ME PRETTY BUSY.

>> Eric: WELL, CONGRATULATIONS, GLAD YOU COULD COME AND JOIN US AND CELEBRATE WITH US.

>> THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

>> Mary: YES, AND I'M GOING TO STEAL A LITTLE CORNER.

>> Eric: BE CAREFUL MARY.

THANK YOU.

YUM.

♪♪ >> THERE HAS BEEN NO EVIDENCE, NO COMPLAINT FROM ANY TACONITE COMPANY THAT THEY CANNOT EXPAND OPERATIONS BECAUSE OF PERMITTING.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU GET THIS.

>> I GET IT FROM THEIR LIPS, JIM.

THEY SAID THEY'RE NOT GOING TO SPEND $10 MILLION.

>> I WASHED MORE IRON ORE FROM BEAN BEHIND MY EARS AND BETWEEN MY TOES IN YOUR LIFE.

AND I GREW UP IN THAT IRON ORE MINING COMMUNITY AND I GREW UP IN IT AND I'M NOT GONNA ACCEPT THAT STUFF FROM YOU.

♪♪ >> Eric: FROM THE FEDERAL SHUTDOWN IN D.C.

TO CONTINUED DISAGREEMENT IN ST.

PAUL ABOUT A POTENTIAL SPECIAL SESSION TO CONTENTIOUS MAYORAL RACES IN CONTENTIOUS MAYORAL RACES IN MINNEAPOLIS AND ST.

PAUL, NO SHORTAGE OF TOPICS FOR THIS WEEK'S VERSION OF THE POLITICAL PANEL.

REPUBLICANS UP FIRST TONIGHT, FRITZ KNAAK IS A FORMER STATE SENATOR, NOW AN ATTORNEY.

ANNETTE MEEKS IS A FORMER CONGRESSIONAL STAFFER AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR CANDIDATE WHO NOW HEADS THE FREEDOM FOUNDATION OF MINNESOTA.

DEMOCRATS ON THE COUCH, ABOU AMARA IS A FORMER LEGISLATIVE STAFFER, NOW ALSO AN ATTORNEY.

AND ALYSEN NESSE IS A DFL LOBBYIST UP AT THE CAPITOL.

I WAS REALLY INTRIGUED BY DANA FERGUSON'S PIECE ON MINNESOTA PUBLIC RADIO ABOUT THE FEUD, QUOTE UNQUOTE BETWEEN GOVERNOR WALZ AND TOM EMMER.

IT SEEMED TO ME IN THE BEST OF TIMES YOU'D HAVE THE POWERFUL REPUBLICAN IN THE CONGRESS AND D.F.L.

GOVERNOR IN THE STATE WORKING TOGETHER FOR THE BETTERMENT OF MINNESOTA.

WHY CAN'T WE DO THAT?

>> THAT'S LIKE WHY CAN'T WE HAVE WORLD PEACE, ERIC, COME ON.

[ LAUGHTER ] SERIOUSLY, T'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION AND A ERY HONEST QUESTION.

AND IT SHOULD BE, BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY JUST HAVE THIS TEMPTATION THEY BOTH CAN'T RESIST TO KIND OF POKE EACH OTHER AND THEY KNOW HOW TO PROVOKE THE OTHER ONE.

AND SOME OF THE STUFF THAT GOVERNOR WALZ HAS BEEN SAYING ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP I CAN SEE WHERE THAT IS VERY INCENDIARY TO OUR REPUBLICAN DELEGATION.

THEY THINK THEY'RE DOING THE BEST JOB THEY CAN AND TOM EMMER IN PARTICULAR HAVING BEEN A WHIP WORKED FOR THE WHIP WHILE OUT IN WEDNESDAY THAT'S A BRUTAL JOB DURING SHUTDOWN, EVEN WORSE WHEN YOU'RE SPEAKER, IT'S A MISERABLE JOB RIGHT NOW AND THEY'RE DOING THE BEST THEY CAN.

>> Mary: EMMER RAN FOR GOVERNOR AND CAME CLOSE.

>> I WAS THERE.

>> Mary: I THINK THAT CONTEXT IS IMPORTANT, THEY KNOW EACH OTHER'S JOBS, RIGHT?

WALZ WAS IN CONGRESS, EMMER WANTED TO BE GOVERNOR.

IS THERE SOMETHING THERE?

>> TO ME IT REALLY SPEAKS TO THE NATIONALIZATION OF OUR POLITICS, AND SO YOU HAVE TOM EMMER WHO IS NATIONAL FIGURE AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL AND YOU HAVE TIM WALZ WHO WAS OBVIOUSLY THE FORMER V.P.

CANDIDATE.

BEHIND THE SCENES I BET THEY GET ALONG BETTER THAN FOLKS THINK, THEY HAVE TO PLAY THE ROLE AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL PARTICULARLY WHEN TOM EMMER IS THE MOST VISIBLE REPUBLICAN IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

>> I'M NOT ASSURE THAT'S TRUE THAT THEY GET ALONG ALL THAT WELL.

PART OF IT'S THE CHANGE IN THE CULTURE.

IT'S NOT JUST AT THAT LEVEL, IT'S AT THE STATE LEGISLATIVE LEVEL AND EOPLE ARE USED TO THROWING ROCKS AT EACH OTHER NOW AND IT'S EXPECTED AND THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU, YOU'RE WEAK IF YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN AND YOU'RE NOT -- ESPECIALLY SOMEBODY WITH A BIG TARGET ON HIS BACK LIKE WALZ, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THAT GOING BACK AND FORTH.

LIKE IT OR NOT.

>> YEAH, IT'S ABOU SAID IN 2025 IT USED TO BE ALL POLITICS IS LOCAL BUT NOW ALL POLITICS IS NATIONAL AND THESE ARE NATIONAL THEMES, THESE ARE NATIONAL, TWO MINNESOTANS WITH NATIONAL PLATFORMS, AND THEY'RE PLAYING INTO THE FLANNEL TRENDS.

>> Eric: OUT THERE ALL WEEK, WHAT'S IT BEEN LIKE?

>> IT WAS PRETTY QUIET BUT YOU KNOW WHAT WAS FULLY STAFFED AND BUSY, TOM EMMER AND AMY KLOBUCHAR AND ANGIE CRAIG'S OFFICE, FULLY STAFFED AND SERVING MINNESOTA CONSTITUENTS WELL AND I'M HAPPY TO REPORT BACK ON THAT.

>> Mary: WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT KLOBUCHAR, SHE WAS DEPICTED ON "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE" DOES THAT MEAN YOU'LL ARRIVED ON THE NATIONAL SCENE WHEN THAT HAPPENS?

>> I THINK SHE'S A FREQUENT TARGET ON SOME OF THOSE.

THE DIRTY LITTLE SECRET OF THE SHUTDOWN IS IT'S ONLY ABOUT 25% OF THE GOVERNMENT.

IT DOES AFFECT PEOPLE, ALTHOUGH THE IRS DID MANAGE TO CASH MY CLERK I WANT TO MAKE NOTE OF THAT.

BUT THE TRUTH IS CONGRESSIONAL OFFICES DON'T GET A BREAK AND YOU SIT THERE DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY WHILE YOUR CONSTITUENTS CALL BECAUSE THEY CAN'T ACCESS SOCIAL SECURITY PERSON TO HELP THEM OR WHATEVER IT IS AND IT'S A BRUTAL TIME FOR THEM.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT THE STATE LEVEL?

WE HAD BUDGET DIRECTOR MINGE ON AND SHE AID WE'RE SEEING MORE IMPACT NOW AND DEFINITELY S.N.A.P.

AND FOOD AND ARE WE GOING TO SEE IMPACT AT FOOD SHELVES, COULD THAT BE ONE OF THE WAYS THIS HURTS OR SETS IN?

>> ABSOLUTELY, THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE AN ABSTRACT FIGHT IN .C.

YOU'RE SEEING FOOD SHELVES POTENTIALLY RUNNING OUT OF MONEY AND S.N.A.P.

AND OTHER THINGS.

THERE'S NO SIGHT IN END.

WE THINK WE KNOW WHERE THE CLIFF IS, WE ACTUALLY DON'T.

IF THIS GOES ON FOR TWO OR THREE MONTHS YOU'RE OW DEALING WITH A PLACE WHERE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS HAVE BEEN TAKEN OUT OF THE MINNESOTA ECONOMY.

>> Mary: WHERE'S THE CLIFF?

>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION AND I AGREE I DON'T THINK ANYBODY REALLY SEEMS TO KNOW.

AND REPUBLICANS ARE STILL TAKING THE ALTITUDE OVERALL THAT THIS IS A CONSTITUENCY, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HURTING THE MOST, LIKE IT OR NOT, IN A REAL COLD WAY TEND TO BE DEMOCRATS.

>> IS THAT TRUE, THOUGH?

WHAT ABOUT RURAL AMERICA?

>> I'M JUST ELLING YOU ABOUT THE PERCEPTION.

YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU GO TO SOME OTHER PLACES AND THERE WILL BE MORE IMMEDIATE IMPACTS.

>> PERCEPTION IS WRONG BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS THE MAJORITIES OF RURAL AMERICA THAT IT WILL BE MOST IMPACTED BY THE SHUTDOWN OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THE MAJORITY OF RURAL AMERICA VOTES RED.

SO IT IS NOT THE PERCEPTION THAT IS BASED IN RES, FRANKLY, -- RACE, FRANKLY, THAT THESE ARE DEMOCRATIC PROGRAMS, NO, THESE ARE PROGRAMS FOR AMERICANS AND THOSE THAT WILL BE MOST HIT HARD ARE REPUBLICAN VOTERS.

>> LET'S BE HONEST HERE THE BIG HOLDUP HERE IS THE SENATE MINORITY LEADER CHUCK SCHUMER WHO REFUSES TO BELIEVE THAT THE REPUBLICANS IN BOTH HOUSE AND SENATE WILL BE HONEST AND NEGOTIATE WITH HIM ABOUT THE BIG STICKING POINT WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE 15 YEARS AGO, THE HONEST DISCUSSION ABOUT THE OBAMACARE TAX CREDITS THAT GO TO INSURANCE COMPANIES NOT TO INDIVIDUALS.

AND IF THEY WOULD JUST SOLVE THAT AND SIT DOWN ALL OF THIS WOULD BE OVER.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT THE CONCEPT, THOUGH, THAT DEMOCRATS ARE FINALLY STANDING UP AND FINALLY SAYING WE'RE GOING TO SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT IF THE HEAD OF THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO WEAPONIZE IT AGAINST US, LET'S TRY AND SHUT IT DOWN, IS THAT A WINNING ARGUMENT >> ABSOLUTELY, IT IS.

LET'S REMEMBER THE REPUBLICANS CONTROL THE WHITE HOUSE, THE REPUBLICANS CONTROL THE SENATE, THE REPUBLICANS CONTROL THE HOUSE.

THIS IS A REPUBLICAN GOVERNMENT, IF THEY WANT TO PASS LEGISLATION, THEY KNOW THEY NEED 7 VOTES IN THE SENATE, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO COMPROMISE AND UNTIL THEY DO THAT, DEMOCRATS ARE SHOULD STAND FIRM ABOUT THE PRINCIPLES THEY WERE ELECTED ON.

>> Eric: NO KINGS RALLY THIS WEEKEND IS SUPPOSED TO DRAW THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE AROUND THE COUNTRY.

>> AND I'M SURE IT WILL.

AND I'M SURE THAT IT WILL JUST BRING IN TONS OF REPUBLICANS THAT ARE CONCERNED FROM THE RURAL AREAS OF THE STATE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON.

NOW, I MEAN, THESE ARE THE SHOWS THAT WE'VE BEEN SEEING GOING ON.

THEY'RE NOT PERCEIVED OF HAVING ANY KIND OF INFLUENCE AT ALL ON THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OR REPUBLICANS GENERALLY.

GOOD FOR THEM, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, FIRST AMENDMENT IS STILL OUT THERE AND DESPITE WHAT YOU MAY HEAR IT'S STILL VERY LIVELY.

>> AND I HAVE TO SAY I WAS UP IN WALKER LAST WEEK AND NO ONE BRINGS THIS UP TO YOU AT ALL, OH, THE GOVERNMENT SHUT DOWN, THE SKY IS FALLING, QUITE THE OPPOSITE.

>> WHAT ABOUT NO KINGS, THOUGH, AND PARTICULARLY SENATE LEADER MURPHY SAYING EMMER'S RHETORIC WAS NOT HELPFUL AFTER WHAT FOLKS HAVE BEEN THROUGH IN THE STATE?

>> OH, MY GOODNESS.

>> IT WASN'T, HE CALLED THEM TERRORISM, HAMAS SUPPORTERS ARE GOING TO BE SHOWING UP.

THAT'S NOT HELPFUL RHETORIC.

IN A TIME WHEN WE NEED TO TONE IT DOWN CALLING AMERICANS WHO ARE GOING TO EXERCISE THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS AS TERRORISTS AND HAMAS SUPPORTERS IS JUST, IT'S AGAIN FANNING THE FLAMES.

>> AGAIN, LESS BLESS THEIR HEARTS IF THEY'RE GOING TO SHOW UP AND EXERCISE THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS I SOLIDLY SUPPORT THAT BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO MAKE A HILL'S BEAN'S WORTH OF DIFFERENCE.

TWO SIDES ARE DEEPLY AND EVENLY DIVIDED.

>> HERE'S WHERE IT MATTERS, WHEN YOU'RE A PARTY OUT OF POWER POLITICS IS LIKE THE GYM, YOU WILL EXERCISES THAT MOBILIZE YOUR BASE AND VOTERS GOING INTO THE 2026 ELECTION.

THESE RALLIES ARE ONE EXAMPLE OF THAT.

>> Eric: SHOULD MINNESOTANS BE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SUPREME COURT AND THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT OF 1965?

>> I DON'T SEE ANY REASON WHY ANYBODY WOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT WHAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW IN FRONT OF THE SUPREME COURT.

I HONESTLY DON'T.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IT WON'T HAVE MUCH OF AN IMPACT HERE.

IN TERMS OF THE OVERALL PATTERNS THAT HAVE BEEN EVOLVING OVER THE LAST SEVERAL DECADES EVEN IN THE SOUTH, YOU'RE JUST NOT GOING TO SEE MUCH OF MEANINGFUL CHANGE.

I THINK THIS IS BEING -- >> THIS IS AN ATTORNEY HERE TOO.

-- YOU TWO.

>> THIS IS MASSIVELY CONCERNING.

IT'S GOING TO RADICALLY WEAPONIZE, I THINK, POLITICAL ORIENTATIONS AROUND DRAWING MAPS, AROUND VOTING RULES AND REGULATIONS, AND REMEMBER, IT WAS ONLY IN PLACES IN LARGE PART -- IN PLACE LARGE PART O MAKE SURE THERE WASN'T DISCRIMINATION IN OUR VOTING SYSTEMS.

WHY IS IT A BAD THING THAT WHERE THERE ARE DISCRIMINATORY POLICIES N PLACE WE CAN PUT A STOP ON THOSE AND SAY, HEY, WAIT A MINUTE, IS THIS REALLY WHAT WE WANT TO DO BEFORE IMPLEMENTING THEM, AND THE SUPREME COURT IS GOING TO GUT THE ABILITY TO DO THAT.

>> Mary: CAN WE PIVOT TO STATE SIDE THE GOVERNOR WANTING TO CALL A SPECIAL SESSION AND TOWN HALLS BEING IN THE COMMUNITY, IS THAT GOING TO HELP HIM WITH THE ISSUE?

-- GUN VIOLENCE?

>> >> THERE WAS ON NOT BE A SPECIAL EGGS.

>> PERIOD, NONE.

>> THE GOVERNOR, OKAY, I'M GOING TO CALL A SPECIAL SESSION, THEN IT'S INCUMBENT UPON HIM TO SAY WHY AND HERE'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO, HE HAS YET TO PRODUCE ANY LEGISLATION OR EVEN CONCRETE IDEAS.

>> YEAH, LEADERSHIP HAS BEEN MEETING, LEADERSHIP AMONGST ALL THE CAUCUSES ON THINGS THAT THEY COULD POTENTIALLY AGREE UPON.

THEY HAVEN'T COME TO THAT AGREEMENT AND THEY WON'T HAVE A SPECIAL SESSION UNTIL THEY DO.

>> OUT IN THE COMMUNITY IS HAT GOING TO HELP?

>> ORGANIZING AND HAVING CONVERSATIONS IS A GOOD THING.

>> LEADERS, I WANT TO GET -- LISA DEMUTH FOR GOVERNOR, IS THIS A TRUE RUMOR SHE'S MARSHALING FORCES BEHIND THE SCENES?

>> IT'S A TRUE RUMOR THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT WANT HER TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR, IT'S A WHOLE 'NOTHER QUESTION WHETHER OR NOT SHE'LL WANT TO DO IT, I DO THINK SHE'S DOING A FABULOUS JOB.

>> IS IT WORTH GIVING UP THE SPEAKERSHIP?

THAT IS A FRAGILE COALITION FOR A TIED CHAMBER FOR A REPUBLICAN TO HOLD THE GAVEL.

CAN IT HAPPEN AGAIN?

>> IT CAN, BUT TIM PAWLENTY DID IT.

IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT WHAT IS THE PAST SUCCESS, SUCCESSFUL PAST -- AS MAJORITY LEADER, BUT STILL, HE WENT UP THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE IN THAT WAY, AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK AS REPUBLICANS ARE SCRAMBLING, YOU KNOW, SITUATION WHERE THE DEMOCRATS REALLY FEEL LIKE THEY SHOULD BE VERY VULNERABLE HIS YEAR.

>> Mary: RIGHT, BUT YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO LOSE HER AND HER GAVEL, OULD YOU?

>> I'LL TELL YOU THERE'S A BIGGER BULLY PULPIT AND IT'S CALLED THE GOVERNOR.

WOW, SHE WOULD BE SO FABULOUS.

>> I DO THINK SHE WOULD BE A TOUGH OPPONENT, I REALLY DO.

SHE AND MELISSA HORTMAN NAVIGATED TOGETHER, SHE IS A, SHE'S A VERY REASONABLE LEADER AND FRANKLY THINK THAT SHE MIGHT BE ONE OF THE BEST REPUBLICANS COULD FIELD.

>> SHE'S GOOD, NO QUESTION.

BUT THE AISSUE IS NOT THE CANDIDATE, THE QUESTION IS THE INFRASTRUCTURE.

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AS AN INFRASTRUCTURE IS IN SHAMBLES SO SHE'S A GREAT CANDIDATE BUT SHE WOULD IN MANY WAYS BE A SACK OFFICIAL LAMB IF SHE'S RUNNING FOR IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR HER TO WIN.

>> Eric: THAT WOULD BE A TOP TIER GOVERNOR'S RACE.

>> THEY WILL SHOW UP.

>> IT WOULD BE BETTER THAN THE LAST FEW.

>> AND IF SHE RAN, TRUST ME THE NATIONAL FORCES WOULD BE HERE IN A HEARTBEAT.

>> INTERESTING.

THANK YOU.

>> WE HAVE RUN LONG TONIGHT AND OUR MINNESOTA HISTORY SECTION WILL WAIT FOR A FUTURE SHOW.

WE DO HAVE A COUPLE OF TUNE-IN REMINDERS FOR YOU.

THE TWO-HOUR FILM VERSION OF "PARADOX: ECHOS OF REFORM AND THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE" AIRS NEXT TUESDAY NIGHT 7:00 P.M.

ON TWIN CITIES PBS AND YOU CAN ALSO WATCH A THREE-PART VERSION OF THE DOCUMENTARY ON TPT.ORG, THE PBS APP WILL GET YOU THERE, SO WILL YOUTUBE.

MAKE SURE YOU COME BACK AND SEE US AGAIN NEXT WEEK.

THE SHOW FEATURES A DEBATE WITH THE LEADI LEADING CANDIDATES FOR MINNEAPOLIS MAYOR.

"ALMANAC" LIVE AT 7:00 P.M.

FRIDAY NIGHT ON THE MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION CHANNEL NEAR YOU.

SPECIAL THANKS TO MARY LAHAMMER FOR SITTING IN TONIGHT.

JUST ENOUGH TIME FOR SHOW-ENDING MUSIC.

THIS WEEK BACK IN 1998, JOHN GORKA APPEARED ON THE OLD "NEWSNIGHT MINNESOTA" PROGRAM.

TAKE A LISTEN.

BE CAREFUL.

♪♪ >> I'VE BEEN WAKING UP TO A LITTLE MORE DAY I'VE BEEN TAKING MY WALKS WITH A LITTLE MORE SWAY ♪♪ I WAS TAKING MY TIME BUT A NEW DAY'S COME MAKE WAY FOR A NEW DAY MAKE ROOM OR A CHILD GET USED TO THE SOUND OF JOY YOU'RE GONNA HEAR IT FOR A WHILE WE'RE ONLY HERE FOR A WHILE ♪♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

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>> "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.