>> Eric: WE'RE AT THE MIDWAY POINT OF THE SESSION AND THE LEGISLATURE IS AT A STALEMATE ON TOP ISSUES AS LAWMAKERS DEPART FOR BREAK THIS WEEK.

TWO LAWMAKERS CRUNCHING THE NUMBERS FOR SPENDING AND BUDGET ARE THE HOUSE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE CO-CHAIRS AND THEY JOIN US NOW.

REPRESENTATIVE D.F.L.ER CEDRICK FRAZIER FROM NEW HOPE, ALSO SERVES AS COCHAIR OF THE PEOPLE OF COLOR AND INDIGENOUS CAUCUS.

ALONGSIDE IS REPUBLICAN PAUL TORKELSON FROM HANSKA WRAPPING UP HIS YEARS IN THE LEGISLATURE THIS SESSION.

WHEN A CONSTITUENT SAYS WHAT IS THAT WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE, WHAT DO YOU TELL THEM?

WHAT DOES IT DO?

>> MONEY, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

EVERY MONEY BILL HAS TO GO THROUGH OUR COMMITTEE AND IN A BUDGET YEAR OF COURSE WE SET BUDGET TARGETS WHICH DETERMINES HOW MUCH MONEY EACH COMMITTEE CAN SPEND.

THIS YEAR IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT, NOT A BUDGET YEAR, BUT EVERY MAJOR SPENDING BILL HAS TO GO THROUGH OUR COMMITTEE BEFORE IT CAN GO NOT FLOOR.

>> Eric: 3.7 BILLION PROJECTED SURPLUS, IS THAT JUST ENOUGH MONEY SO THAT PEOPLE EXPECT A LITTLE GREASE OF THE SKIDS HERE BEFORE THE END OF THE SESSION?

HOW OFTEN ARE YOU SAYING NO?

>> I THINK WE'RE SAYING NO A LOT.

I THINK WE'RE SAYING WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE STILL HAVE A STRUCTURAL DEFICIT COMING UP, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER WE'RE SPENDING ON DOESN'T HAVE A LARGE IMPACT ON THAT TO MAKE IT GROW.

BUT WE KNOW WE HAVE GREAT NEEDS AND MINNESOTANS NEED TAKEN CARE OF AND WE WANT TO TRY TO FOCUS ON THOSE ISSUES.

>> Cathy: I HEARD ABOUT NEEDS AND STORM CLOUDS ON THE HORIZON, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE EARLIER YOU MIGHT REMEMBER WERE NOT HAPPY WITH THEIR PROPERTY TAX BILLS WHEN THEY GOT THEM.

SO I'M WONDERING THERE IS THERE ANY POSSIBILITY THAT MONEY COULD COME BACK TO TAXPAYERS AT THE END OF SESSION?

>> WELL, THERE IS SOME POSSIBILITY.

WE'VE TALKED ABOUT SOME PROPERTY TAX RELIEF, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT POSSIBLY LOWERING TAB FEES.

BOTH OF THOSE TASKS WILL BE EXTREMELY DIFFICULT.

BUT THERE'S MONEY AROUND, THERE'S UNSPENT FUNDS THAT WE COULD TAP INTO IF WE CAN AGREE TO TAP INTO THEM.

BUT WE'LL SEE.

>> Cathy: YOU COME ACROSS SOME CONTROVERSIAL BILLS, BOTH OF YOU OBVIOUSLY IN THIS COMMITTEE.

SO FAR WHAT'S BEEN THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL YOU'VE HAD TO DEAL WITH?

>> WELL, SO FAR THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL IS A DAIRY BILL.

IT WASN'T A VERY BIG BILL BUT STILL HELD UP IN OUR COMMITTEE.

>> IT DIED ON A TIE VOTE.

>> IT DID DIE ON A TIE VOTE.

>> Eric: AND OF COURSE WE SHOULD SAY THE HOUSE IS DIVIDED 67-67.

>> THAT DYING ON A TIE HAS BEEN PRETTY COMMON OCCURRENCE, NOT JUST IN OUR COMMITTEE BUT VIRTUALLY EVERY COMMITTEE.

WE'RE SEEING SOME SHAKING LOOSE AND BILLS MOVING, WE'RE GOING TO MOVE MORE BILLS SOON I THINK.

>> I WILL SAY IT'S NOT UNCOMMON FOR US TO NOT MOVE THINS AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN.

THAT'S PART OF THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS BUT THAT DAIRY BILL PARTICULARLY, WE'RE GOING TO GET IT DONE, THERE'S ALWAYS INTERNAL CONVERSATIONS OR THINGS BEHIND THE SCENES THAT YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT MAY CAUSE AN IMPACT BUT WE'RE FOCUSED ON WHAT MINNESOTANS NEED AND WE'LL GET THINGS DONE WHERE WE NEED TO.

>> Cathy: YOU BOTH ARE LEAVING THE LEGISLATURE AT THE END OF SESSION.

YOU, Mr.

CHAIR, KNOWN AS A DEAL MAKER.

YOU'VE GOT A GOOD REPUTATION AS A DEAL MAKER.

YOU WANT TO PEEL THAT ONION FOR US A LITTLE BIT AND WHY DO YOU HAVE THAT REPUTATION >> WELL, THERE'S OTHER DEAL MAKERS IN THE WORLD AS YOU KNOW.

AND I THINK I'M A LOT DIFFERENT THAN THE HEAD DEAL MAKER.

MY DEAL-MAKING IS A LITTLE MORE SUBTLE AND FRIENDLY THAN OTHERS MIGHT BE.

I JUST LIKE TO, I LIKE TO SAY, I DON'T LIKE TO OMPROMISE, I LIKE TO GET TO KNOW WHO IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE TABLE AND FIGURE OUT WHAT WE CAN DO TOGETHER TO SOLVE A PROBLEM, FIGURE A ATH THAT WE CAN BOTH LIVE WITH AND THEN MOVE DOWN THAT PATH.

>> Cathy: WHAT'S IT BEEN LIKE TO WORK ITH THIS REPRESENTATIVE?

IS >> IT'S BEEN VERY GOOD, I'VE KNOWN REP TORKELSON BEFORE I CAME COCHAIR AND WE'VE HAD A CORDIAL, FRIENDLY WORKING RELATIONSHIP, AND I RESPECT HIM VERY MUCH.

THEY'RE GOING TO MISS YOU WHEN YOU LEAVE.

I THINK WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT DEAL MAKING THE IDEA IS AS LONG AS IT'S VALUES BASED I DON'T MIND COMPROMISING TO DO WHAT'S BEST FOR MINNESOTANS AS LONG AS IT'S NOT COMPROMISING VALUES I BRING TO THE TABLE OF THOSE THAT I REPRESENT.

>> Eric: YOU GUYS HAVE ANY IDEA WHY WE'RE NOT MORE WITH THE ONE MINNESOTA SLOGAN THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE URBAN, RURAL SPLIT, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THAT?

>> WELL 'A COUPLE OF THINGS.

I THINK WE'RE SUFFERING FROM A COVID HANGOVER.

COVID WAS A DIFFERENT TIME IN THE LEGISLATURE.

PEOPLE THAT CAME IN DURING THAT TIME MET ON ZOOM, THERE WAS NO CORDIAL MEETINGS BEFORE A COMMITTEE MEETING STARTED OR AFTER.

AND INSTEAD YOU HAD THIS LIMITED TIME WHERE YOU WERE STARING AT THE BOX AND EVERYBODY WAS JUST A HEAD ON A SCREEN.

AND I THINK IT DEVELOPED SOME KIND OF BAD HABITS THAT WE HAVE YET TO GET OVER COMPLETELY.

ALSO, WE'RE DRIVEN BY SOCIAL MEDIA.

THE WHOLE SOCIETY IN MANY WAYS IS DRIVEN BY SOCIAL MEDIA.

PEOPLE GET IN THEIR ECHO CHAMBERS, TEND TO LISTEN TO THE AREA THAT AGREES WITH THEM, THE NEWS CASTS THAT AGREES WITH THEM AND THEY DON'T GET THE FULL PICTURE AND THAT CAUSES EXTREMES.

>> I THINK THAT'S RIGHT.

YOU KNOW, WHEN I FIRST, I CAME IN DURING COVID SO I'M ONE OF THOSE MEMBERS.

ONE OF THOSE THINGS I DID WAS REACHED OUT TO EVERY REPUBLICAN MEMBER ON EVERY COMMITTEE I SAT ON TO HAVE A ONE TO ONE CONVERSATION TO GET TO KNOW THEM.

AND I'VE LIVED IN RURAL MINNESOTA, I'VE LIVED IN MORRIS, AND MANKATO.

AND I APPRECIATE THE DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF METRO VERSUS RURAL AREA.

I ALSO GREW UP ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF CHICAGO SO I'M A BIG CITY KID BUT MY FAMILY'S FROM MISSISSIPPI, JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS, I SPENT SUMMERS DOWN SOUTH.

SO THAT SMALL TOWN FEEL, EVERYBODY KNOWS EVERYBODY, THAT MORE LAID BACK PACE, I APPRECIATE THAT SO I WANTED TO MAKE SURE I COULD MAKE THOSE CONNECTIONS AND I THINK MOST OF US HAVE DONE A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF ACTUALLY BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS AS WE'VE BEEN THERE.

>> Cathy: I WONDER THEN MOVING FORWARD, BECAUSE THERE IS STILL THIS SCHISM, WHAT DO OTHER FOLKS HAVE TO DO TO REPAIR THAT?

TO BRIDGE THOSE DIVIDES?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK A BIG THING IS CONNECTING AND GETTING TO KNOW ONE ANOTHER.

THERE'S THIS THING, THE MORE YOU KNOW SOMEONE WHEN YOU KNOW SOMEONE UP CLOSE, IT'S HARDER TO BE A JERK TO THEM, RIGHT?

BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING, YOU KNOW THEIR FAMILY, YOU LEARN ABOUT THEIR BACKGROUND, AND IT'S REALLY KIND OF HARD TO BE A JERK WHEN YOU HAVE THOSE KIND OF CONNECTIONS.

I THINK THE MORE OF THAT WE CAN DO, VISITING DO, VISITI VISITING DISTRICTS, G AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THOSE DISTRICTS I'D LOVE TO DO THAT.

I'VE GOTTEN TO TRAVEL AROUND THE STATE AS PART OF THE LEADERSHIP TEAM AND THAT HAS GIVEN ME A CONNECTION TO HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING AND WORK WELL WITH FOLKS.

>> AND WE HAVE ANOTHER OBSTRUCTION RIGHT NOW, IT'S THE BUILDING WE'RE IN.

WE'RE IN TEMPORARY QUARTERS.

REPUBLICANS ARE ALL ON SECOND FLOOR, DEMOCRATS ARE ALL ON FIFTH FLOOR, AND I CALL THE BUILDING THE PENITENTIARY BECAUSE IT'S A PAIN TO GET IN AND OUT OF.

>> FAIR ENOUGH.

>> AND SO WE DON'T SEE EACH OTHER CASUALLY VERY MUCH IN THAT BUILDING, IT'S NOT LIKE THE OLD OFFICE BUILDING WHERE THIRD FLOOR WAS A MIX AND I SPENT A LOT F TIME ON THIRD FLOOR SO YOU JUST NATURALLY SAW EACH OTHER BY THE ELEVATORS AND IN THE HALLWAYS, THAT'S NOT HAPPENING EITHER.

, WHEN DO YOU HOPE TO HAVE TARGETS DONE?

AND THIS IS THE INDIVIDUAL SPENDING FOR EACH.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> Eric: I AS THINK NEGOTIATIONS -- THE NEGOTIATIONS ARE GOING TO BE FRAUGHT WITH PERIL, I WOULD THINK.

>> ERIC, THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE TARGETS.

>> Eric: WHAT?

>> Cathy: WHAT?

>> WE DON'T NEED TARGETS, WE WILL DEAL WITH EACH INDIVIDUAL SPENDING BILL AS IT COMES THROUGH.

AND WE KIND OF, AT LEAST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I'M SPEAKING NOW FOR MY CAUCUS AND MY LEADERSHIP.

>> YEAH.

>> WE ARE PLANNING ON JUST WORKING ON THE BILLS AS THEY COME THROUGH.

THERE WILL NOT BE BIG OMNIBUS BILLS.

>> Eric: NO 1400-PAGER?

>> NO 400-PAGER.

>> Eric: NO INDIVIDUAL TARGETS, THAT'S GOING TO SPEED THINGS ALONG?

>> WELL, IT'S GOING TO CHANGE THE WAY WE NEGOTIATE.

>> Eric: WOW!

>> IT WILL CHANGE THE WAY WE NEGOTIATE.

ON OUR SIDE WE WOULD PREFER TARGETS, BUT WE HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER.

WE'RE IN A TIED HOUSE.

WE HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER, WE UNDERSTAND THAT.

WE'RE GOING TO DO OUR BEST TO MAKE THIS WORK BUT AGAIN WHAT WE REALLY KIND OF FOCUS ON AND WHAT MINNESOTANS NEED WE KNOW WE'RE GOING TO BE BRINGING BILLS AND PRIORITIES TO ADDRESS THAT, WE'RE THINKING OF THINGS, IMPACT OF WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE FEDERAL OPERATION IN OUR STATE, WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THE IMPACT ON OUR SMALL BUSINESSES, WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THE IMPACT OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT COULDN'T GO TO WORK, THAT ARE DEALING WITH MAKING SURE THEY CAN STAY IN THEIR HOMES, THOSE ARE MAJOR THINGS WE GOT TO FOCUS ON.

AND IF WE CAN DO IT WITHOUT HAVING TARGETS WE'LL MAKE SURE IT CAN HAPPEN FOR MINNESOTANS.

>> Eric: BREAKING NEWS!