>> CATHY: LEGISLATIVE LEADERS HAVE LEFT THE COUCH.

AND NOW IT IS FILLED WITH THIS WEEK'S POLITICAL PANEL.

EVERYONE IN THIS GROUP HAS FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT CAN HAPPEN AT THE END OF SESSION.

DEMOCRATS UP FIRST TONIGHT.

JEFF HAYDEN IS A FORMER DEPUTY MAJORITY LEADER IN THE STATE SENATE, NOW A LOBBYIST.

TARA ERICKSON IS A LONGTIME LOBBYIST UP AT THE CAPITOL WHO NOW WORKS AS A CONSULTANT.

REPUBLICANS TONIGHT... AMY FREDERIKSEN IS A FORMER SENATE MAJORITY LEADER NOW A LOBBYIST.

FRITZ KNAAK, ALSO A FORMER STATE SENATOR, NOW AN ATTORNEY IN PRIVATE PRACTICE.

SENATOR FREDERIKSEN, DO YOU THINK THE SPEAKER WOULD HAVE ALLOWED A VOTE ON THAT GUN BILL HAD SHE NOT BEEN RUNNING -- IF SHE WAS NOT RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR?

>> I THINK WHAT HAD TO HAPPEN ON THE GUN BILL, I ACTUALLY DON'T THINK IT HAD TO DO WITH THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, I THINK IT HAD TO DO WITH, I THINK THERE WAS SOME COMPROMISE O BE FOUND, I'VE SAID THAT FROM THE BEGINNING, SPEAKER DEMUTH WAS ON THE SCHOOL BOARD AT ROCORI, HER KIDS WENT TO THAT SCHOOL AND THERE WAS A TERRIBLE SHOOTING IN THAT SCHOOL.

I THINK THERE WAS SOMETHING TO BE FOUND.

BUT I THINK THAT BOTH SIDES NEEDED TO COME TO HE TABLE WITH, LIKE, IN REAL EARNEST TO FIND THAT.

AND THEN I THINK, I THINK THERE WAS A WAY TO GET THAT BILL TO THE FLOOR THIS YEAR, IN OME FORM.

IN SOME FORM AROUND -- I THINK WE'RE OUT OF TIME NOW, I REALLY DO.

>> WELL, I THINK THAT, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THAT SHE SHOULD HAVE HEARD THE BILL.

AND I THINK THAT SHE KIND OF DE FACTO DID HEAR THE BILL TWICE AND NOW WE GOT ALL OF THE HUBBUB, BECAUSE THE RULES TO SUSPEND THE BODY TO HEAR THE BILL, TO MAKE IT AN EMERGENCY, TO HEAR THE BILL, TURNED INTO A SEVEN-HOUR DEBATE ABOUT THE BILL.

AND THEN PEOPLE VOTED NO.

SO WE'RE JUST GOING TO SAY THEY VOTED NO.

SO I THINK THAT SHE SHOULD HAVE HEARD T, VOTED IT DOWN OR UP, ANY WAY THAT THEY WANT TO.

NOW, I DON'T THINK THAT THE BILL WILL GET HEARD, IN LARGE PART, BECAUSE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME.

>> Cathy: DOES SHE HAVE THE VOTES?

IS THE CAUCUS, MAYBE SOME SUBURBAN MEMBERS SOFTENING?

>> THE RUMORS ARE THAT THERE ARE A FEW REPUBLICANS IN SUBURBS WHO ARE POTENTIALLY WILLING TO VOTE FOR THAT BILL.

SO I THINK THAT THERE IS A VERY GOOD REASON FOR THEM WHY THEY'RE NOT BRINGING IT UP.

>> WISHFUL THINKING, I THINK.

THIS WAS A LOT OF POLITICAL THEATER.

AND I THINK THAT IT WAS POSSIBLE, MAYBE EARLIER IN THE SESSION, TO COME UP WITH SOME MIDDLE GROUND, GENUINE MIDDLE GROUND ON ANY OF A NUMBER OF THESE ISSUES.

IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

SO NOW EVERYBODY'S STAKED OUT THEIR, FRANKLY, EXTREME POSITION, AND I WOULD SAY MORE EXTREME ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE THAN THE REPUBLICAN IN MY VIEW, BUT THERE'S NO WAY THAT THIS IS GOING TO MOVE FORWARD.

>> WHAT WOULD EVER BE -- SORRY -- WHAT WOULD EVER BE A GUN SAFETY ANYTHING FOR REPUBLICANS WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH?

>> WELL, THAT'S A FAIR QUESTION.

I THINK THERE COULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD DEAL MORE TALK ABOUT SCHOOL SAFETY.

TWICE NOW TIM WALZ AND THE TEACHER UNIONS TURNED DOWN EFFORTS TO FUND NONPUBLIC SCHOOLS.

THIS WAS GREAT UNLESS YOU'RE A MINNESOTA CATHOLIC KID AND YOU DIDN'T GET THE BENEFIT OF THAT.

AND THAT WAS WHERE YOU WERE HEARING REPUBLICANS COMING FROM.

LET'S TALK ABOUT GENUINE SCHOOL SAFETY, THINGS THAT WILL MATTER.

SO THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE START.

>> SO THE PROBLEM WITH THAT ARGUMENT, IT'S LWAYS, WHY DON'T WE GO TO WHERE WE AGREE AND THEN WHERE WE DON'T AGREE, RIGHT, THEN WE WON'T DO T. BUT THAT'S USUALLY THE THINGS THAT I WANT THE MOST, RIGHT?

THEY ALWAYS SAY, WELL, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE.

WELL, HIGH-CAPACITY FIREARMS KILL KIDS.

THE PARENTS HAD TO BURY THEIR CHILDREN TWICE.

THAT'S NOT GRANDSTANDING, THAT'S NOT EXTREMISM, THAT'S PEOPLE WHO HAD TO BURY THEIR CHILDREN TWICE AT ANNUNCIATION.

>> Eric: GRADING THE SESSION, TAX RELIEF, A BONDING BILL, HOUSING ONDS, HCMC, AND ANTI-FRAUD, TAB CUTS, LAWMAKERS' SAFETY, SCHOOL MONEY FROM A TRUST FUND, COUNTY I.T., HORTMAN MEMORIALS.

THIS IS A PRETTY PRODUCTIVE SESSION FOR NOT HAVING TO DO ANYTHING.

>> ADD IN $10 MILLION FOR FOOD BANKS AND FOOD SHELVES IN A TIME WHEN SKY-ROCKETING GROCERY PRICES.

>> YOU HEARD THE LEADERS EARLIER, SOME OF THOSE THINGS MIGHT NOT HAPPEN.

AND I'M VERY THANKFUL, I MEAN, I LOBBIED FOR HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL CENTER FOR TEN YEARS, BUT THAT IS BASICALLY AN ACCOUNTING SHIFT IS HOW THEY'RE DOING THAT.

AND THEY'RE USING THOSE DOLLARS THAT ARE PREPAYMENT REVIEW DOLLARS THAT DHS HAS SAVED FROM ACTUALLY NOT PAYING DISABILITY SERVICE PROVIDERS.

SO THAT'S WHERE THOSE MONEYS ARE COMING FROM.

>> Eric: COULD ANYTHING GO WRONG BETWEEN OW AND SUNDAY NIGHT?

>> WELL ACRES WHOLE BUNCH OF THINGS.

>> A LOT.

>> I'M HEARING THAT, THOUGH THERE IS A DEAL IN THEORY, I'M ALSO HEARING THAT THE METRO SURGE, WHICH WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT, RIGHT, I THINK IS GOING TO BE A DECIDING FACTOR IN THE ELECTION THIS FALL, THOSE BUSINESSES DIDN'T GET ANY RELIEF, AND THAT'S A REALLY BIG DEAL AND THERE ARE A LOT OF MEMBERS WHO ARE WORRIED ABOUT THAT.

SO, THERE ARE ALSO ISSUES, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES, THERE'S ALWAYS A BIG FIGHT, MINNEAPOLIS, THOUGH, MONEY THAT'S GOING TO GO TO ROY WILKINS, IT DOESN'T SEEM THE KIND OF MONEY THAT THEY NEED TO DO SOME WORK IN MINNEAPOLIS.

SO THERE IS SOME CONSTERNATION.

>> RIGHT.

SO WE HAVE A DEAL.

WE DON'T HAVE THE BILLS.

AND THAT'S, I THINK, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

WE HAVE A FRAME OF THE PUZZLE, WE DON'T HAVE INSIDE.

HOWEVER, NOW THERE'S SOMETHING FOR OLKS TO LOSE BECAUSE WE HAVE A DEAL.

WE KNOW WHAT'S AT STAKE IF PEOPLE DON'T COME TOGETHER AND DECIDE ON ALL THOSE ITTLE MIDDLE PIECES AND ALL THE SORT OF HOW EVERYTHING CONNECTS.

THERE'S THE BIG PICTURE OF WHAT CAN BE LOST AND THAT'S HCMC AND THAT'S TABS AND THAT'S ALL THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE WANT ARE NOW ON THE TABLE, THEY CAN SEE IT, AND I THINK HERE WILL BE A DEAL.

>> I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.

>> AND WITH -- YEAH.

WITH THE TRANSPARENCY QUESTION THAT YOU GUYS HAD EARLIER, EVERYTHING IS BEING DONE BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

>> Cathy: DOES THAT SURPRISE YOU, THOUGH?

>> IT'S JUST GETTING WORSE EVERY YEAR.

>> IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY.

>> NO SURPRISE.

>> NO IT WAS NOT.

WE HAD A LOT OF CONFERENCE COMMITTEES WHERE THEY WERE PASSING THROUGH THINGS, WHERE THERE WERE LOBBYISTS AT THE CAPITOL UNTIL 6:00 A.M.

IN THE MORNING.

PEOPLE WERE GETTING AMENDMENTS DRAFTED.

AND NONE OF THAT HAPPENS ANYMORE.

AND IT HASN'T BEEN FOR LIKE A DECADE.

>> YEAH.

>> BEFORE THAT, I WOULD SAY.

YOU KNOW, BUT I AGREE.

I MEAN, THERE'S SO MUCH ON THE TABLE AND SO MUCH PRESSURE TO REALLY GET A DEAL DONE THAT YOU CAN EXPECT IT TO HAPPEN.

BUT I HAVE NEVER SEEN A LEGISLATIVE SESSION THAT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE IT'S GOING DOWN TO THE WIRE.

>> Cathy: RIGHT.

>> ALWAYS.

>> Cathy: ALWAYS.

>> ALWAYS.

SO THIS IS NO DIFFERENT.

BUT IT IS DIFFERENT IN THE SENSE THAT I DO GET THE SENSE THAT SOME OF THESE BIG ISSUES ARE THINGS THAT WILL BE AGREED ON.

AND, SO, -- >> I ALSO THINK THAT PART OF IT IS, ALMOST LIKE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS CAN RUN ON THIS.

YOU CAN RUN ON LICENSE TABS, YOU CAN RUN ON PROPERTY TAX.

>> RIGHT.

>> YOU CAN RUN ON THE SAFETY NET HOSPITAL.

YOU CAN RUN ON A PRETTY HIGHLY INFRASTRUCTURE BILL, RIGHT?

SO IT WILL BE INTERESTING, LIKE WHAT ARE GOING TO BE THE THINGS THAW RUN ON.

BUT EVERYBODY CAN KIND OF RUN ON GETTING THOSE THINGS DONE.

>> Cathy: YOU CAN RUN ON THAT.

YOU JUST MENTIONED HCMC, PROPERTY TAXES, THE TAB CUTS.

BUT THOSE ARE SHORT TERM.

>> THEY ARE.

>> Cathy: THEY'RE JUST A YEAR, RIGHT?

SO LAWMAKERS ARE REALLY KICKING THE ACTUAL PROBLEMS DOWN THE ROAD.

>> THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF THAT IS BEING KICKED DOWN THE -- ABSOLUTELY.

>> URPRISE, SURPRISE.

>> Cathy: SHOULD I BE SURPRISED, I KNOW.

>> SURPRISE, SURPRISE, IT'S ALWAYS THAT WAY.

YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTION COMING UP.

>> THERE DOES SEEM TO BE MONEY FOR CERTAIN THINGS.

LIKE I'M NOT OPPOSED TO ROY WILKINS OR ANY OF THIS TYPE OF STUFF GETTING DONE.

THE ARENA.

BUT CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW, LIKE I WORK N A LOT OF DIFFERENT DISABILITY STUFF, WE ARE HEARING THAT THERE ARE MAJOR CUTS THAT ARE BEING TALKED ABOUT RIGHT NOW AGAIN IN DISABILITY SERVICES.

THIS YEAR.

>> Eric: WELL, HUMAN SERVICES WOULD BE A BILL WHERE THERE COULD BE SOME ISSUES.

>> THERE WERE 300 MILLION PROPOSED IN CUTS AND WE ARE HEARING THAT THERE COULD BE MORE BECAUSE NOW DHS MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY DO ALL OF THIS PREPAYMENT REVIEW WHERE THEY WERE TRYING TO GET THE MONEY FROM.

>> WELL, PART OF THE ISSUE THERE, THOUGH, I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO BE HONEST, AND ASK YOU'VE WORKED, AND I'VE WORKED A LONG TIME, THERE IS A LACK OF TRUST INSIDE OF DHS.

AND, SO, I'M NOT SAYING THAT THOSE CUTS ARE REAL OR NOT REAL, BUT BECAUSE OF THE ISSUE AROUND FRAUD, WHICH WILL BE THE OTHER CONVERSATION THERE, I THINK THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF SAVINGS THAT COULD BE REALIZED IF YOU DON'T GIVE ALL OF THAT MONEY OUT THE DOOR AND THERE'S A LOT OF KIND OF THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO INSIDE THAT BUDGET.

I DO THINK THAT THOSE CUTS ARE REAL, BUT I THINK THAT THERE IS A LACK OF -- I CAN'T FIND THE WORD -- [ OVERLAPPING CONVERSATION ] >> ACCOUNTABILITY.

>> FRAUD.

>> GOOD THINGS I WANTED TO SAY.

>> Eric: IMPACT OF THE ANTI-FRAUD COMMITTEE IN THE HOUSE, 84-PAGE REPORT, PRETTY COMPREHENSIVE.

>> QUITE COMPREHENSIVE.

LET ME TELL YOU, THE FRAUD PREVENTION MEASURES, MITIGATION MEASURES, ARE ALSO SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY WANTS TO RUN ON.

SO YOU HEARD, REALLY, UNANIMOUS AMONGST LEADERS, TOUTING THE FRAUD BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHY?

THEY KNOW THEY NEED THAT GOING TO THE DOORS IN MINNESOTA.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> THEY NEED TO HAVE SAID, WE DID SOMETHING.

>> AND THEY DID.

>> THE GOVERNOR SIGNED THE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL TODAY.

>> Eric: DOESN'T THAT INSPECTOR GENERAL HAVE A LOT OF POWER WHEN HE OR SHE ASSUMES POLICE POWERS IN 28?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THERE IS POLICING POWER AND THEY ARE OUTSIDE OF THE EXECUTIVE OFFICE.

>> THE ONE THING I WILL SAY, THOUGH, WITH THAT, WE CAN TRY TO TIE THE NEXT LEGISLATURE TO WHAT THEY DID NOW.

THINGS COULD CHANGE BY 2028.

>> Cathy: NOT THAT IT MATTERS, BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR'S A LAME DUCK, BUT HOW WOULD YOU RATE HIS ROLE IN THIS SESSION?

DO WE HAVE ANY INKLING AS TO HOW MUCH OF A BROKER, POWER BROKER HE WAS?

OR PEACEMAKER OR NEGOTIATOR.

>> MY SENSE THE GOVERNOR CAME IN LATE.

>> YEAH.

>> WITH KIND OF A LIST THAT HE WANTED.

AND THAT'S NOT UNUSUAL.

USUALLY THEY START EARLY AND TALK ABOUT THE THINGS THAT THEY WANT.

AND HE AME IN LATE WITH A FEW DEMANDS.

IT LOOKS LIKE HE HAD BEEN IN OTHER PLACES AROUND THE COUNTRY.

>> I WOULD SAY IT'S TYPICAL AND PASSIVE.

HE'S NEVER REALLY -- MOST OF THE TIME HE'S BEEN GOVERNOR, MOST OF THE LEADERSHIP HAS COME OUT OF THE LEGISLATURE AND MOST OF THE IDEAS HAVE COME OUT OF THE LEGISLATURE AND THIS WAS NO DIFFERENT.

>> THIS WAS KUDOS TO THE LEADERS THAT WERE ON THIS COUCH, REALLY AND RULY.

THE SENATE HELD THEMSELVES TOGETHER AND PASSED TRADITIONAL BILLS.

THE HOUSE DID THEIR BEST WITH 67-67.

EVEN WITH SPEAKER DEMUTH RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR AND HAVING A REALLY BUSY SCHEDULE, AND, FRANKLY, REPRESENTATIVE STEPHENSON STEPPING IN IN A REALLY DIFFICULT SITUATION WITH A GRIEVING CAUCUS, YOU HAVE TO GIVE IT TO ALL THOSE FOUR LEADERS, I THINK.

>> Eric: WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITHOUT A LEGISLATIVE SESSION?

>> Cathy: I THINK WE'LL BE FINE.

[ Laughter ] [ OVERLAPPING